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NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

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EDIT: sizemorematters beat me to it.

I still want to know if anybody thinks the city will be able to come up with a half-billion dollars, at minimum?

Because if not, the Rams are LA-bound in time to look at paint chips for the new downtown stadium.

Considering they're still paying off Edward Jones Dome, no they won't be able to. The Chargers are going to be the charter team at the new stadium, and the Rams will be team two.

The Bills won't move as long as the old man is still alive, and there are questions as to if the NFL wants to abandon their only real tie to the Canadian market even if he croaks (though their possible sale by auction could put a crimp in any plans to stay in Buffalo). The Vikings are now getting backing from the NFL for part of their stadium (and are in a region that will fight to keep it with public funds). The Raiders are going to be pairing up with the Niners on their Santa Clara stadium. And the Jags are subject to a lease until 2029 that is one of the most iron clad you'll find out there due to it requiring the Jags to lose money for 3 straight seasons (a near impossibility for an NFL team) and then convincing a local judge that the city isn't maintaining the stadium properly before they can even attempt to break the lease. Add to that the Jags owner not wanting to move and it seems pretty obvious which are the two teams most likely to move.

And not surprisingly both the Rams and Chargers have not only talked to AEG, but their owners are buddies with Phil Anschutz. Both teams would be able to move without needing any realignment. Both teams have fan bases already in LA so neither team would be odd man out. And both are in situations that aren't going to get any better any time soon in their current market (both of which are very big markets (SD and StL) the NFL does not want blacked out).

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Read the quote again. It ha to be a "reasonable" plan. They can't just say give us Lucy Pinder when all is needed is Miranda Kerr. You guys are jumping to conclusions more than anybody. I don't think arbitration would side with the Rams if they asked for an extraordinary amount simply so the city would reject it and they'd be out.

But the contract specifies that the Rams need to be given Lucy Pinder, not Miranda Kerr. Pinder would be the definition of top-25%.

And no, all the quote specifies is CVC having to give the Rams a "reasonable plan" to make EJD a top-25% stadium or to build a new one, not the Rams giving one back to the CVC. Show me where it explicitly says that the Rams' plan has to be "reasonable."

Also, $750 million is likely what it'd cost for a top-25% stadium at the lowest right now, remembering that you're competing with the JerryDome, New Meadowlands, Lucas Oil, Ford Field, et al, it's gonna be really hard for them to do that without spending that much dough.

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Read the quote again. It ha to be a "reasonable" plan. They can't just say give us Lucy Pinder when all is needed is Miranda Kerr. You guys are jumping to conclusions more than anybody. I don't think arbitration would side with the Rams if they asked for an extraordinary amount simply so the city would reject it and they'd be out.

But the contract specifies that the Rams need to be given Lucy Pinder, not Miranda Kerr. Pinder would be the definition of top-25%.

And no, all the quote specifies is CVC having to give the Rams a "reasonable plan" to make EJD a top-25% stadium or to build a new one, not the Rams giving one back to the CVC. Show me where it explicitly says that the Rams' plan has to be "reasonable."

Also, $750 million is likely what it'd cost for a top-25% stadium at the lowest right now, remembering that you're competing with the JerryDome, New Meadowlands, Lucas Oil, Ford Field, et al, it's gonna be really hard for them to do that without spending that much dough.

What's really a shame is that St. Louis doesn't seem to be capable of swinging a New Orleans style deal where they're renovating their old style dome to be more modern.

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For what it's worth, I heard (and I wish I could find a source, but it was just a tweet from a guy I trust had his own source) that the Rams are close and thus expected to sell out every game this year. Season Ticket renewals were at 94%, and they had sold 4,000 new season tickets as of July 17th--BEFORE the lockout ended. No doubt that last number has jumped since.

Imagine that. A genuine effort to win, and the fans are flocking back. I've been saying that for years regarding the Blues and now the Rams. It's proven time and time again, that St. Louis WILL support their teams and well, so long as there's a real effort displayed by those teams.

We'll see. I know you think McCall and I are pie in the sky, but if it were legal, I'd bet a large chunk of change the Rams are here well beyond 2015, and in a new stadium by 2025.

Except the Rams are probably going to start the season 2-7 or 3-6 (look at the schedule) and those "fans" are going to vanish back into the ether.

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EDIT: sizemorematters beat me to it.

I still want to know if anybody thinks the city will be able to come up with a half-billion dollars, at minumum?

Because if not, the Rams are LA-bound in time to look at paint chips for the new downtown stadium.

You've been overstating the situation this whole time Goth. And you continue to do so.

Stan Kroenke WILL agree to a solution in which the city is responsible for some funding over a larger time frame AND he chips in a fair chunk as well. Take it to the bank.

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For what it's worth, I heard (and I wish I could find a source, but it was just a tweet from a guy I trust had his own source) that the Rams are close and thus expected to sell out every game this year. Season Ticket renewals were at 94%, and they had sold 4,000 new season tickets

as of July 17th--BEFORE the lockout ended. No doubt that last number has jumped since.

Imagine that. A genuine effort to win, and the fans are flocking back. I've been saying that for years regarding the

Blues and now the Rams. It's proven time and time again, that St. Louis WILL support their teams and well, so long as there's a real effort displayed by those teams.

We'll see. I know you think McCall and I are pie in the sky,

but if it were legal, I'd bet a large chunk of change the Rams are here well beyond 2015, and in a new stadium by 2025.

Except the Rams are probably going to start the season 2-7 or 3-6 (look at the schedule) and those "fans" are going to vanish back into the ether.

They would still have a shot to win the division with that record though!

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But do I think that Kroenke will just surrender his advantage, just because he's a "local owner"? Not on your life. He's an extremely aggressive and shrewd businessman, who's not likely to fold while holding a straight flush.

Remember how the Rams sale played out-he sat back and let somebody else come up with a price before swooping in (as opposed to moving immediately). That should answer any questions about Kroenke's willingness to surrender advantages.

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For what it's worth, I heard (and I wish I could find a source, but it was just a tweet from a guy I trust had his own source) that the Rams are close and thus expected to sell out every game this year. Season Ticket renewals were at 94%, and they had sold 4,000 new season tickets as of July 17th--BEFORE the lockout ended. No doubt that last number has jumped since.

Imagine that. A genuine effort to win, and the fans are flocking back. I've been saying that for years regarding the Blues and now the Rams. It's proven time and time again, that St. Louis WILL support their teams and well, so long as there's a real effort displayed by those teams.

We'll see. I know you think McCall and I are pie in the sky, but if it were legal, I'd bet a large chunk of change the Rams are here well beyond 2015, and in a new stadium by 2025.

Except the Rams are probably going to start the season 2-7 or 3-6 (look at the schedule) and those "fans" are going to vanish back into the ether.

I don't know if you've been paying attention, but the Rams have had one of the top 3 or 4 off-seasons in the NFL. They play an extremely tough schedule the first 8 weeks of the season. I expect they'll win 3-5 of those games. Look for them to win 5-7 of their final 8. The Rams will be fine, and so will their fans.

There are TWO groups of people who continue to state the Rams are done for an on their way to LA. Rams fans based in LA, and the know-it-alls here. Good luck with that.

The Rams are staying in St. Louis, sorry to burst your bubbles.

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Read the quote again. It ha to be a "reasonable" plan. They can't just say give us Lucy Pinder when all is needed is Miranda Kerr. You guys are jumping to conclusions more than anybody. I don't think arbitration would side with the Rams if they asked for an extraordinary amount simply so the city would reject it and they'd be out.

I think "the stadium is an irreparable :censored: hole and any attempt at renovation would be like putting lipstick on a pig, so a new stadium is necessary" would fit at least a loose check of "reasonable".

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For what it's worth, I heard (and I wish I could find a source, but it was just a tweet from a guy I trust had his own source) that the Rams are close and thus expected to sell out every game this year. Season Ticket renewals were at 94%, and they had sold 4,000 new season tickets as of July 17th--BEFORE the lockout ended. No doubt that last number has jumped since.

Imagine that. A genuine effort to win, and the fans are flocking back. I've been saying that for years regarding the Blues and now the Rams. It's proven time and time again, that St. Louis WILL support their teams and well, so long as there's a real effort displayed by those teams.

We'll see. I know you think McCall and I are pie in the sky, but if it were legal, I'd bet a large chunk of change the Rams are here well beyond 2015, and in a new stadium by 2025.

Except the Rams are probably going to start the season 2-7 or 3-6 (look at the schedule) and those "fans" are going to vanish back into the ether.

I don't know if you've been paying attention, but the Rams have had one of the top 3 or 4 off-seasons in the NFL. They play an extremely tough schedule the first 8 weeks of the season. I expect they'll win 3-5 of those games. Look for them to win 5-7 of their final 8. The Rams will be fine, and so will their fans.

There are TWO groups of people who continue to state the Rams are done for an on their way to LA. Rams fans based in LA, and the know-it-alls here. Good luck with that.

The Rams are staying in St. Louis, sorry to burst your bubbles.

Well there's a third group. A large portion of the national press. Hate to break it to you but the odds on favorites are the Chargers and Rams.

http://espn.go.com/losangeles/conversations/_/id/6846837/nfl-los-angeles-here-seven-wonders

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For what it's worth, I heard (and I wish I could find a source, but it was just a tweet from a guy I trust had his own source) that the Rams are close and thus expected to sell out every game this year. Season Ticket renewals were at 94%, and they had sold 4,000 new season tickets as of July 17th--BEFORE the lockout ended. No doubt that last number has jumped since.

Imagine that. A genuine effort to win, and the fans are flocking back. I've been saying that for years regarding the Blues and now the Rams. It's proven time and time again, that St. Louis WILL support their teams and well, so long as there's a real effort displayed by those teams.

We'll see. I know you think McCall and I are pie in the sky, but if it were legal, I'd bet a large chunk of change the Rams are here well beyond 2015, and in a new stadium by 2025.

Except the Rams are probably going to start the season 2-7 or 3-6 (look at the schedule) and those "fans" are going to vanish back into the ether.

I don't know if you've been paying attention, but the Rams have had one of the top 3 or 4 off-seasons in the NFL. They play an extremely tough schedule the first 8 weeks of the season. I expect they'll win 3-5 of those games. Look for them to win 5-7 of their final 8. The Rams will be fine, and so will their fans.

There are TWO groups of people who continue to state the Rams are done for an on their way to LA. Rams fans based in LA, and the know-it-alls here. Good luck with that.

The Rams are staying in St. Louis, sorry to burst your bubbles.

OK....

The Rams have had a "good" offseason if the objective is "let's have an awesome team in 3 or 4 years"...mostly because they didn't get dramatically worse at any position, and the chance to deliver needed talent upgrades theoretically exists in future offseasons. At the same time, though, there weren't any real major upgrades on the team. The Rams still don't have a credible #1 receiver and the deep threats they have are both coming off of knee injuries, the back up running backs have an injury "history" to put it mildly, and what good is adding a big tight end to throw at when everybody on the field knows you're throwing at him and will act accordingly. The defense collectively neither improved nor got worse-the gains pretty much balance out the losses, which means among other things we are again going to be treated to the sight of Ram DBs getting lit up like a Christmas tree and the defense tiring out in the 2nd half. And of course, the coaching staff that has demonstrated a modest indifference to winning games is still calling the shots. Spagnuolo will probably cost the Rams a game or two with his turtling proclivities AGAIN.

Now...more on point. This is, without question, the make-or-break season for the Rams' continued existence in St. Louis. It is IMPERATIVE that the Rams come out of the gate winning early and often in order to build and keep that momentum from last season. And within that context we have an offseason that the Rams spent kicking the "upgrade talent" can down the road and a ridiculously frontloaded schedule in terms of difficulty and no divisional games until Week 9*. So the deck seems to be rather stacked against "make" at the moment, wouldn't you say?

You have your prediction. I have mine, and that is that the decision to move to Los Angeles has already been made, and not only that, but Kroenke had made that decision when he moved to get full ownership.

*-Week 9. Has any team ever gone that deep into a season before playing a single divisional tilt?

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You forgot the other group, "people who are looking at the facts."

Look, I hate relocation. I'm a Brooklynite, for crying out loud. I don't want to see any fans lose their team, if it can be helped. But Rams fans are the only ones denying the obvious, and their arguments against a move are a combination of emotional appeals, personal attacks and wishful thinking like "Kroenke cares more about Missouri than money."

Looking at the lease, the political situation in Missouri, and expectations of what the economy will look like for the next few years, I just don't see how St. Louis keeps them from taking advantage of the opening Los Angeles market.

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You forgot the other group, "people who are looking at the facts."

Look, I hate relocation. I'm a Brooklynite, for crying out loud. I don't want to see any fans lose their team, if it can be helped. But Rams fans are the only ones denying the obvious, and their arguments against a move are a combination of emotional appeals, personal attacks and wishful thinking like "Kroenke cares more about Missouri than money."

Looking at the lease, the political situation in Missouri, and expectations of what the economy will look like for the next few years, I just don't see how St. Louis keeps them from taking advantage of the opening Los Angeles market.

Same situation exists in San Diego. Listening to the press down here today they're in total denial mode refusing to even talk about it on sports talk radio. But fact is the Chargers make as much sense as the Rams. It'll either be both or one of those two teams. The others have too many options at home, or in Buffalo and Jacksonville's cases, owners who don't want to move and who aren't as connected up the yin yang to AEG like the Spanos family and Kroenke are.

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I'd tend to agree - the Chargers and Rams make the most sense.

Personally, if we're going to talk about our preferences, I'd rather see the Jaguars move before either of those. I think Jacksonville is a truly failed market. But given the respective situations, St. Louis and San Diego are far more likely.

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The only team I'm surprised they don't go after is the Falcons. They want out of the Georgia Dome and they don't have the greatest fanbase in the world either. They're winning now and that's enough to give them support but if they aren't, Falcons are usually dead last in attendance. Probably won't get them but I'd at least try and maybe they already did are simply moving on.

It's not so much that the Falcons want out of the Georgia Dome (and seeing as how Arthur Blank just spent 9-figures to renovate the place really disputes the "wanting out" theory), it's that Arthur Blank wants to build a stadium that he can truly own (the state of Georgia owns the Dome...Blank just owns the operating rights) to entice the NFL to letting Atlanta host another Super Bowl.

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The only team I'm surprised they don't go after is the Falcons. They want out of the Georgia Dome and they don't have the greatest fanbase in the world either. They're winning now and that's enough to give them support but if they aren't, Falcons are usually dead last in attendance. Probably won't get them but I'd at least try and maybe they already did are simply moving on.

It's not so much that the Falcons want out of the Georgia Dome (and seeing as how Arthur Blank just spent 9-figures to renovate the place really disputes the "wanting out" theory), it's that Arthur Blank wants to build a stadium that he can truly own (the state of Georgia owns the Dome...Blank just owns the operating rights) to entice the NFL to letting Atlanta host another Super Bowl.

But it was :censored: ing cold last time in Atlanta. And Ray Lewis killed a guy.

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Wow. WE'RE the only ones imagining things. You guys are already assuming it's fact that they are moving when other than a lease out coming in 4 years. There has been nothing else said. How the hell do you know that he won't spend his own money? You don't. It always comes down to your main argument, "others have done it". I'm not saying it's certain they're staying. At this point I believe it's 50/50, but yeah I'm being optimistic. A lot better than acting pretentious and like I know every single detail of the future when nothing else is known.

Keep your psychic beliefs. There's no longer any legitimate discussion going on here. I'm out.

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Actions speak louder than words. The Rams aren't behaving like a team that really wants to save a struggling market. Yeah, they aren't doing a Frontiere-esque napalming of the market, but they aren't moving heaven and earth to save things either.

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Actions speak louder than words. The Rams aren't behaving like a team that really wants to save a struggling market. Yeah, they aren't doing a Frontiere-esque napalming of the market, but they aren't moving heaven and earth to save things either.

I'll take your word for that. Not the kind of thing that we really get out-of-market.

Turning away from St. Louis, Bill Plaschke doesn't want the Raiders back in LA. Can't say as I blame him; that was my experience back in the day. While I'm sure that the obnoxious fanbase is still there in LA, they lack the focal point that eight home games would provide.

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