NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[TheOldRoman]

That itself is sort of this other weird thing floating there. I'm not sure that you're right that there's no way Kroenke winds up still owning the Rams in St. Louis. But you're absolutely right to be concerned about how bizarre that would be and whether it would poison the market. But let's not forget that Tom Benson nearly moved the Saints and now has a statue outside of the Superdome.

I realize he didn't get to the point of buying land and releasing a stadium plan, but he still had seemingly poisoned the well. The New Orleans Mayor actually said they wanted to keep the team but not the owner even suggesting they should get "the Cleveland plan." Point being that these things have a way of blowing over. I think it'd be awkward, but I don't think it'd be impossible for Kroenke to go on owning the Rams.

Part of me wants to think that the most likely outcome is actually the Rams and Chargers sharing Kroenke's Inglewood stadium and the Raiders indeed moving to St. Louis where a stadium plan would be ready to go.

That would still kinda check the boxes I've been talking about and solves the worry you have. But the weird thing there is whether or not Spanos and Kroenke can work together like that. Is it telling that the Chargers didn't reach out to Kroenke to be part of his plan or a "guaranteed" tenant of his to have both an LA option and more immediate leverage in San Diego? He instead looped the Raiders in on a plan he had developed himself.

There's so many parts to this. It really is going to be crazy. Every logical outcome still has a fatal flaw. Something will give at some point. Gotta think we'll have a clearer answer by the start of the season. And we'll have something totally official within 12 months I would think.

This could all be NFL revisionist history, but it seems like the Saints were always pretty beloved and a cherished member of the community which gave civic pride despite the team being routinely horrible. Plus, the team "healed the wounds of Katrina" and so forth. The Rams have not been nearly as loved. If Kroenke gets smacked down by the NFL, backs into a St. Louis stadium deal and wins a Super Bowl in five years, I think he'd still likely get booed by the 40% of the fanbase which was actually paying attention in 2015.

[tigerslionspistonshabs]

With this plan announced, what are the actual odds that anything actually happens with this?

[Mac the Knife]

I realize he didn't get to the point of buying land and releasing a stadium plan, but he still had seemingly poisoned the well. The New Orleans Mayor actually said they wanted to keep the team but not the owner even suggesting they should get "the Cleveland plan." Point being that these things have a way of blowing over. I think it'd be awkward, but I don't think it'd be impossible for Kroenke to go on owning the Rams.

Benson's posturing about New Orleans never got to this point in the discussion, and thus it wasn't truly seen as a serious ploy to move the franchise. Most of these aren't until they reach the "okay, we have the financing for a stadium" point or, better, the "we have a site we can control in the new market" point. That's when attention starts being generated, because it's only at that point is a franchise making it known, "We're passing points of no return here."

The Rams machinations have been clear since the day the land was bought, but on one other than true insiders suspected this Chargers/Raiders tag-team approach. The Raiders were of course the presumed 2nd team, joining the Rams, as they've no definitive ties to Oakland beyond the year-to-year lease in place. San Diego had been working with the city so long that no one anticipated they'd actually pull a trigger toward making a move to L.A.

Oddly I think there's an odd, but workable solution to be made here: build Kroenke's stadium in Los Angeles with 3 tenants in mind. Give the Chargers, Raiders and Rams each 6 dates (5 regular season, 1 preseason) a year, playing the remainder in their other markets. The stadium holds the same 18 total dates it would with a single tenant, any playoff games involving the teams, and a Super Bowl every now and again. The Southern California Chargers would likely be fine with that, capable of maintaining their hold in San Diego. The Golden State Raiders would be fine, generating LA revenue while still holding ties to their Oakland fan base. The Los Angeles Rams would be fine, as not be seen as robbing St. Louis of NFL football.

Yeah, a screwy idea. I know. But hey... why not through it out there and see who shoots it down?

[B-Rich]

That itself is sort of this other weird thing floating there. I'm not sure that you're right that there's no way Kroenke winds up still owning the Rams in St. Louis. But you're absolutely right to be concerned about how bizarre that would be and whether it would poison the market. But let's not forget that Tom Benson nearly moved the Saints and now has a statue outside of the Superdome.

I realize he didn't get to the point of buying land and releasing a stadium plan, but he still had seemingly poisoned the well. The New Orleans Mayor actually said they wanted to keep the team but not the owner even suggesting they should get "the Cleveland plan." Point being that these things have a way of blowing over. I think it'd be awkward, but I don't think it'd be impossible for Kroenke to go on owning the Rams.

I can't stress enough that the big difference between the Tom Benson and Stan Kroenke comparison is that most of the worst (San Antonio) stuff happened after Hurricane Katrina, which was a very serious and scary time. Most, if not all, of the people down here for weeks (sometimes months) wondered if they could EVER go home and if they did, could they EVER get back to a new normal. No major city in modern times has faced the same level of effect-- I think you'd have to go back to the San Francisco earthquake of 1906 or the Chicago Fire to find an adequate parallel. National pundits (and many on this board) were ready to write off New Orleans COMPLETELY, much less as a major league home. While most in town give a strong acknowledgement to Tagliabue to seeing things through with the Saints' return, most of them find it hard to blame Benson for his actions at the time when they didn't know if THEY would be coming home either (the Shinn/Hornets thing is a whole other story, which we won't get into here).

So, yeah, Benson within a year gets the team back to New Orleans; he's viewed as one of us, dealing with recovery and committed to rebuilding. He also doubles down on the city, buying real estate next to the Superdome, the Saints primary TV outlet (the local Fox affiliate), AND he buys the Hornets, saving them for the city. New Orleans has always been a city of live and let live, forgive and forget, and that's what has happened.

Funny, though, now Benson's heirs are claiming he's senile and saying his current wife is pulling a Georgia Rosenbloom in swaying ol' Tom to leaving the team to her instead of them. And the "New Orleans Mayor" who gave those statements? That waste of space is currently in the federal penitentiary.

It's always something down here.

[Still MIGHTY]

I wouldn't say I'm optimistic. I just think it's possible they stay, and increasingly more possible with each development.

I also agree they want to be in LA. But right now there are multiple ways it could shake out.

St. Louis could burn to the ground/be annexed by Bosnia/be swallowed by a sink hole, and you'd still come in here and say it improves the Rams chances at staying there. The trucks will be packed up and on the road, and you'll come in here with "Nah, there's still time to sort this out. Let's not get hasty. There's still a big chance they're staying."

Switch Rams with Coyotes, and I'd swear you'd have told us they were going to skate on the ice made of blood from the non-believers.

[Gothamite]

Hey, I can't blame him for wanting to find the most positive side. Relocation sucks.

[STL FANATIC]

Switch Rams with Coyotes, and I'd swear you'd have told us they were going to skate on the ice made of blood from the non-believers.

The Coyotes are still in Phoenix right ? (Which I actually was a vocal proponent of, btw. But not the plans themselves that used ridiculous amounts of tax money. Just the idea of giving the market more of a chance.)

But for the sake of further discussion, I really don't think my optimism is that unwarranted. Side note: I still don't know if optimism is the right word, either. I walk around talking about how my Rams gear will be collectors items in a year. I've assumed they're gone for a while, and I won't be terribly bummed if that's the outcome. Saves my city money, helps me stop following a league I hate and a sport I struggle with. But I keep very abreast of the developments. This mornings, I think, changes the dynamic a bit.

Anyways, like I said, I'm not sure it's unwarranted "optimism" anyways. There's three teams that need new stadiums in three cities. All three teams now seem to have a workable situation in LA. But the chances of three teams moving there are almost nonexistent.

One city has a real stadium plan that is advancing on the table. I know there's some skepticism over the St. Louis stadium plan (and I don't even like some big parts of the plan), but I'm now pretty convinced it's for real. I think it will get driven through.

So I don't think my math is that crazy. Three teams. Two to LA. One other city with a stadium. I think there's a solid chance yet that St. Louis has a football team coming out of this. It feels bizarre, but most outcomes to this situation are now bizarre. (Now bizarre. Now bizarre.)

[The_Admiral]

I'm starting to feel like the Rams will stay in St. Louis too, given that the NFL hasn't plotzed about this Carson proposal like they did about the Hollywood Park one.

[STL FANATIC]

I'm starting to feel like the Rams will stay in St. Louis too, given that the NFL hasn't plotzed about this Carson proposal like they did about the Hollywood Park one.

I wondered this too. Also factor in that the Andy Strickland report (which now seems credible) said that the league had asked the Chargers to remain quiet at the time. So they've been in communication about it and the Chargers were playing nice with the league. Today's reports say this plan has been being worked on for 9 months.

It's entirely fair to wonder if league sentiments will end up meaning anything if Kroenke just goes for it. But I think we can glean what the league's preference probably is.

[The_Admiral]

I'll add that I have a feeling that San Diego will come through at the eleventh hour to keep the Chargers, leaving the Raiders in the lurch.

[LMU]

Hey, I can't blame him for wanting to find the most positive side. Relocation sucks.

Tell us about it.

Sincerely,

Angelinos

[IceCap]

Switch Rams with Coyotes, and I'd swear you'd have told us they were going to skate on the ice made of blood from the non-believers.

The Coyotes are still in Phoenix right ? (Which I actually was a vocal proponent of, btw. But not the plans themselves that used ridiculous amounts of tax money. Just the idea of giving the market more of a chance.)

You were also skeptical of a seventh Canadian team and thought it was silly that people celebrated the move of a team from a Sunbelt metropolis to a small Canadian prarie town.

If we're keeping score.

But for the sake of further discussion, I really don't think my optimism is that unwarranted. Side note: I still don't know if optimism is the right word, either. I walk around talking about how my Rams gear will be collectors items in a year. I've assumed they're gone for a while, and I won't be terribly bummed if that's the outcome. Saves my city money, helps me stop following a league I hate and a sport I struggle with. But I keep very abreast of the developments. This mornings, I think, changes the dynamic a bit.

Anyways, like I said, I'm not sure it's unwarranted "optimism" anyways. There's three teams that need new stadiums in three cities. All three teams now seem to have a workable situation in LA. But the chances of three teams moving there are almost nonexistent.

One city has a real stadium plan that is advancing on the table. I know there's some skepticism over the St. Louis stadium plan (and I don't even like some big parts of the plan), but I'm now pretty convinced it's for real. I think it will get driven through.

So I don't think my math is that crazy. Three teams. Two to LA. One other city with a stadium. I think there's a solid chance yet that St. Louis has a football team coming out of this. It feels bizarre, but most outcomes to this situation are now bizarre. (Now bizarre. Now bizarre.)

You're forgetting (or ignoring) that Stan can start construction of his stadium as early as June. The Raiders/Chargers proposal is still just that, whereas Stan is very, very close to making his a reality.

Hey, I can't blame him for wanting to find the most positive side. Relocation sucks.

To a point. After that? It comes off as arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

[2001mark]

I also heard that the Seahawks and Niners will share a new stadium in Oregon...

Now that would be something.

[2001mark]

The NFL doesn't care about vacating prime cities like San Diego or St. Louis... it really doesn't. 80,000 ticket buying fans will be anywhere it goes, & it's a television league.

All it would do is increase value for keeping teams in current locales 'or else' savvy?

The NHL has been hammering its Kansas City consequence for years now... to keep owners & communities in check.

[BBTV]

So it's either Raiders+Chargers, or Rams+?

Doesn't sound like it can be Rams+Chargers, or Rams+Raiders, if the Raiders and Chargers need each other.

That alone leads me to think the NFL would favor that scenario, plus it opens SD as one of those "threat" spots for if another team needs a stadium.

Of course what the league would prefer might not matter if Kroenke just says "FU, I'm moving".

[LMU]

You also have to wonder if Goodell has lost some of his clout with his year from hell. He may want to try to stop Kroenke but could the owners not named Kraft be tiring of his act?

[The_Admiral]

Rams to Los Angeles and that's it would be the ideal scenario. St. Louis can't keep all three of its teams, San Diego isn't worth losing, and re-entry into Los Angeles has to be done right, which is to say without Raiders stink all over it.

[Mac the Knife]

Rams to Los Angeles and that's it would be the ideal scenario. St. Louis can't keep all three of its teams, San Diego isn't worth losing, and re-entry into Los Angeles has to be done right, which is to say without Raiders stink all over it.

Rams to Los Angeles

Raiders to San Antonio

Chargers to Oakland

Jaguars to San Diego

Panthers to Jacksonville

/for the lulz

[IceCap]

I still think the Raiders to San Antonio is the most Raiders-like thing that can happen with that team. Preferably with a statue of Al Davis out front of the new stadium flipping the double bird in California's general direction.

[STL FANATIC]

Switch Rams with Coyotes, and I'd swear you'd have told us they were going to skate on the ice made of blood from the non-believers.

The Coyotes are still in Phoenix right ? (Which I actually was a vocal proponent of, btw. But not the plans themselves that used ridiculous amounts of tax money. Just the idea of giving the market more of a chance.)

You were also skeptical of a seventh Canadian team and thought it was silly that people celebrated the move of a team from a Sunbelt metropolis to a small Canadian prarie town.

If we're keeping score.

I'm not sure this is true. I think I had stopped commenting by that point. I was against the Preds moving. I don't even think I talked about Atlanta. I also don't think I doubted Canada's ability to support another team ever.

In any case, I'm not the only one who thinks this might end up with the Rams still in St. Louis.

Jason La Canfora, who was one of the first and most frequent to report (and yes, I was skeptical) that Kroenke was set on moving to LA offers this:

The more people I talk to about this Chargers/Raiders proposal in Carson the more I get the sense this thing could really happen

Kroenke wouldn't love it, but he would get a good deal on new STL stadium and NFL could find ways to sweeten the pot more. Crazy times ahead

I'll admit I have a St. Louis spin. But it's unfair to suggest I'm living in some fantasy world.