NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[bosrs1]

By 2022, this league will be a joke. A full time London team is a ridiculous idea. How about keeping games in the US so the teams all get 8 regular season home games? Goodell needs to go.

Ultimately they're going to start dropping the more marginal markets. Places like Jacksonville, San Diego, Oakland, etc... will end up teamless.

[IceCap]

To echo a sentiment I hear BBTV bring up from time to time...

Would these markets be the first choice for teams if they were applying for expansion or relocation today? Sometimes throwback markets like Green Bay can work. Sometimes time just passes them by.

Jacksonville being the exception because it's a relatively recent addition to the league. Though I think it's been chronicled that they were the last possible option that expansion go-around and only got a team because everyone else not named the Carolina Panthers fell through.

[The_Admiral]

They wanted to save Baltimore and St. Louis for relocation.

[STL FANATIC]

That's why I think St. Louis is a worthy-market if stadium/funding isn't a factor. (It obviously is, and we're not sure what that outcome will be yet. But just talking about the market.)

It's not a league MUST by any means. But let's operate under the assumption you're planning a league with 32 teams in 30 markets. (Two teams in LA and NY. You could suggest either market could support three. And you could also suggest a market like Chicago could support a second team. But we have to have some practicality in this hypothetical. Those extra teams work if the league was truly brand new, perhaps, but under the current circumstances, I don't think they do.)

St. Louis is definitely one of those 30 markets. You don't cry if you can't work out a deal to make St. Louis one of the 30 markets. But it's well within your initial list of 30 desired markets.

Oakland and San Diego may be. I'm honestly not sure. If you're planning from scratch, do you plan a second team in the Bay area and another team so near your two LA teams? You very well may.

As I'm prone today, though, I'm just taking the St. Louis POV, and I think it's one of the cities you'd try to go to unless you can't make it work. (This actually falls in line with the expansion talk you mentioned. They messed up their bid, and that's why Jacksonville happened. But the market itself was supposed to get the team. They wanted it.)

They wanted to save Baltimore and St. Louis for relocation.

That's not the story I've ever read or been told, though I suppose it's reasonable. Sounded to me like St. Louis had every opportunity to get it because the NFL wanted the market. But the group itself had too much disfunction to make the bid a good one.

[The_Admiral]

I dunno about that. If you have teams in Kansas City, St. Louis, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, and Nashville, you can probably get away with dropping one of those. I'd probably drop Nashville, but if we're planning this league and we're arriving at a St. Louis with a regional baseball dynasty and a tendency for race riots, I might skip St. Louis instead. (This reasoning could have been used to skip Cincinnati at one point.)

[STL FANATIC]

You absolutely can get away with dropping one. But if you're starting from scratch as the premise suggested, St. Louis is in, probably over a couple of those markets.

Like I said, it's not a must. But it's in that top 30 for sure.

[Mac the Knife]

You absolutely can get away with dropping one. But if you're starting from scratch as the premise suggested, St. Louis is in, probably over a couple of those markets.

Like I said, it's not a must. But it's in that top 30 for sure.

This got me thinking: where would I put 32 teams if I were starting from scratch, today... presuming there'd be no fallout and there were facilities readily available in each site...

• AFC NORTH: Boston, Cleveland, Indianapolis, Toronto.
• AFC SOUTH: Houston, Memphis, Miami, Tampa/Orlando (shared market, like GBY and MIL were decades ago)
• AFC EAST: Atlanta, Baltimore or Washington (not both), Cincinnati, Pittsburgh.
• AFC WEST: Denver, Kansas City, Phoenix, San Diego,
• NFC NORTH: Chicago, Detroit, Milwaukee, Minneapolis.
• NFC SOUTH: Charlotte, Dallas, New Orleans, San Antonio.
• NFC EAST: Berlin, London, New York, Philadelphia.
• NFC WEST: Los Angeles, Portland, San Francisco, Seattle

Say goodbye to Buffalo, Nashville, St. Louis, Okland and Jacksonville, and eliminate 2-team markets in New York and the Bay area.

[Gothamite]

If you're starting from scratch today? I don't know. The struggles of the market, losing one NFL team and probably another, might well work against St. Louis in putting together that list of 30.

I love the Midwest being represented, but I'm not sure the market is all that valuable to the NFL. We'll see what the market study says.

And no, Mac, if the two conferences are to mean anything at all you'd still need two teams in New York. The only way I could see dropping down to one is if you set up an East/West division. And even then, maybe not. Ask MLS how having only one team in the area worked out for them....

[colortv]

(On St. Louis’ stadium plan and what they need to do to keep the Rams)

Kraft: My point of view, if they come up with a plan that looks pretty good and a strong financial package, we the NFL have an obligation, in my opinion, to have a team in St. Louis. I think the fans, just like what happened in Buffalo or any of the markets. But they have to be able to support the team.

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/17300/some-leftover-relocation-thoughts-from-robert-kraft

[Gothamite]

to have a team in St. Louis

If we're going to read into anything, it's telling that he said "have a team". Not "keep a team".

But then again, until the financing is there the conversation is academic.

[colortv]

I don't know why everyone keeps talking about Jacksonville. Was it a mistake to expand there given the size of the market? Yes.

However, they have a lease that makes it so prohibitive to get out of that it's a virtual lock they will there for at least another decade.

[Gothamite]

I don't know why everyone keeps talking about Jacksonville. Was it a mistake to expand there given the size of the market? Yes.

However, they have a lease that makes it so prohibitive to get out of that it's a virtual lock they will there for at least another decade.

Well...

I understand that all he has to do is show three years of losses. Which isn't that hard to do if he really wants to leave, even with all that television money rolling in.

But he's giving no reason to believe he really wants to leave, and millions of reasons to think he wants to make a go of it in Jacksonville. So they're probably not part of this conversation.

[STL FANATIC]

They've only been part of the conversation today while we discussed a hypothetical. I think everyone engaged in this conversation realizing they're sticking around Jacksonville for a good while at least.

[STL FANATIC]

St. Louis County will not participate in funding for the St. Louis stadium. They were to pay $6 million per year in extended bond payments. (They currently pay that on the Dome, which is to be paid off by 2021).

It seems that the organizers believe it's better to let them opt out that to force this to a public vote. Certainly sounds like bad news for the St. Louis task force, though they'll likely spin it otherwise.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/st-louis-county-bows-out-of-new-football-stadium-funding/article_07f5ee4a-6154-5cde-9fb7-a3552672ff4a.html

Also, Illinois Governor Rauner briefly suggests the stadium could go in the Metro East. I doubt there is any actual movement on that front, however.

http://www.ksdk.com/story/sports/nfl/rams/2015/03/31/illinois-nfl-stadium-lure/70709454/

[2001mark]

Move the Rams to Brazil, the Chargers to London, & the Raiders to Germany.

Then we'll see some fireworks.

[The_Admiral]

Also, Illinois Governor Rauner briefly suggests the stadium could go in the Metro East.

He can't find money for anything else but sinecures for his wife, but he can find money for the Rams? Rauner can get dicked.

[Gothamite]

The shaky St. Louis financing just got shakier - Governor Nixon is apparently so sure that St. Louis County voters will vote against financing the new stadium, he's kicked the county off the project.

http://stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_07f5ee4a-6154-5cde-9fb7-a3552672ff4a.html

(Jim) Shrewsbury (Nixon-appointed chairman of the Edward Jones Dome Authority) said the uncertainty of a public election is, right now, worse than losing $6 million a year from the county. "One of the issues that needs to be resolved is the financing," he said. "The quicker thats' done the better chance we have of prevailing in this matter. And if there's some doubt as to whether or not the county can participate, its better to move without them."

That leaves the state and city to chip in the public contribution.

No word yet on who's going to have to pick up the county's share, which was to be the same as what the city is expected to pay.

[CubsFanBudMan]

(Psst. 3 posts up.)

Hey, look it's the Arch, Old Capitol... Union Station!

[Gothamite]

Darn. Must not have refreshed my browser. Sorry, all.

[rams80]

Also, Illinois Governor Rauner briefly suggests the stadium could go in the Metro East. I doubt there is any actual movement on that front, however.

http://www.ksdk.com/story/sports/nfl/rams/2015/03/31/illinois-nfl-stadium-lure/70709454/

He needed something else whose ultimate failure he can pin on unions. That and he wanted to spend money on something besides ventilators for at need children.