colortv Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 My impression was that the Chargers ownership isn't particularly wealthy(relatively speaking of course), and to build a stadium in California it will cost what, at least a billion?Maybe Chargers ownership can't afford to fund the rest on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colortv Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2015/6/24/8840287/dean-spanos-perspective-on-chargers-stadium-searchThis article seems to conclude to the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 My impression was that the Chargers ownership isn't particularly wealthy(relatively speaking of course), and to build a stadium in California it will cost what, at least a billion?Maybe Chargers ownership can't afford to fund the rest on their own.Even if the team is the family's sole income source... They're wealthy! The Packers financials basically show a team's income and expenses.Dad Spanos bought the team so long ago, they aren't paying back any loans.As a few of us has said here for years...Rich people stay rich by using OTHER people's money.A franchise doesn't have to flip the bill by themselves since they get virtually interest-free money from...(wait for it)Goldman SachsThe company which the NFL hires senior executives from, which teams have previously looked to for financing, and is even on the other side as they've been retained by the CVC for the St. Louis stadium plan.http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-01-29/how-goldman-banker-became-nfl-s-go-to-stadium-finance-guyThe Ginger Hammer doesn't run the NFL, Goldman Sachs runs the NFL (in addition to 20% of the US economy). And every team owner sans Green Bay, has stock in Goldman Sachs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL FANATIC Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 The market debate isn't one I'll really go into again because I'm just destined to be shouted down.Disagreeing with you is not "shouting you down". Even if your fellow posters overwhelmingly disagree with you, that's not "shouting you down". It just means your arguments haven't always been terribly compelling.I'm not aware of any effort to prevent you from making your points. If there has been, there should not have been and it has to stop now.May just be a difference in understanding of the phrase "shouting down." (And mine may be incorrect.)Nobody is censoring me. But being disagreed with frequently and from multiple people feels like being shouted down. Now, obviously that means my arguments haven't been compelling to you all, sure. But I've made detailed and reasonable arguments (I'm not just sitting here saying St. Louis is good over and over), and they're all dismissed regardless. And so again, that feels like being shouted down.I'm not angry about it. I just didn't think it was worth our time to go into that side of the discussion again. JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I'm sorry you feel that way. It was never my intention, even when I've vehemently disagreed with you. I do think your arguments have been given consideration. And I've agreed with some of them. But you also tend to have an emotional component that doesn't sway those of us without the emotional ties. I've no doubt that it's hard not to be emotional about the possible loss of your team, though. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCap Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I can only speak for myself but I haven't dismissed your arguments. I've given them a fair hearing and just haven't found them compelling. The two are not the same thing.My biggest issue with your position is your assertion that the St. Louis fanbase can't be held to account for the Rams' poor attendance. You claim that no fanbase can be expected to support a team with their track record. I just don't buy that.This team won a Super Bowl and went to another. They fielded one of the most exciting teams of all time. Yeah, they had a historically bad stretch, but that stretch wasn't the totality of Rams football in St. Louis. Playoff success. Two NFC Championships. One Super Bowl victory after a dominant regular season. In a game widely cited as one of the most exciting Super Bowls of all time.My point is that when you compare the entirety of the Rams' stay in St. Louis to other teams you certainly find worse football.The Bills play outdoors in western New York, and haven't been to the playoffs since Doug Floutie was starting.The Browns became one of most pathetic teams in the NFL, and then sunk lower to the point where "Cleveland Browns" is itself a punchline.The Jets faithful have not only had to contend with terrible teams recently, but they've had to put up with their team becoming the league's circus.Washington? Terrible on-field product, an incompetent owner who isn't going anyway any time soon, and the future saviour of the team's career flushed down the toilet after one bone-headed coaching decision.The Lions have seen a resurgence as of late, but this is a team that went 0-16 less than a decade ago. You want to talk about historically awful? There you go.All of these teams have been consistently awful since the Rams moved to St. Louis. And yet? No one mentions their attendance issues because those attendance issues are non-existent. None of them can claim a Conference or Super Bowl in that time either. The Rams have two of the former and one of the latter.I just don't buy the argument that the Rams have been so bad that it excuses the apathy St. Louis has for them.So I'm sorry. I don't see anyone here shouting you down. You've had plenty of chances to put your argument forward. You just haven't been able to convince most of us. That's not the same thing as us "shouting" you down. PotD 26/2/12 1/7/15 2020 BASS Spin the Wheel, Make the Deal Regular Season Champion 2021 BASS NFL Pick'em Regular Season Champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnWis97 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Cleveland Browns.Yes. Having a team which was a Super Bowl favorite in 1995, then having that season unravel and the team move immediately afterwards. Sitting for three years without a team, then getting a team back which has been awful. Watching many of the former Browns' players winning a Super Bowl in 2000. Making the playoffs once in that span and losing a heartbreaker to your most hated rival. Going through a laundry risk of awful draft picks, bust QBs and QBs who shouldn't have even seen a pro roster. Occasional reasons for optimism which are almost immediately crushed by reality. And now they wear the worst uniforms in football. I don't think any other fans have had it nearly as bad as Clevelanders.This makes me feel bad for Joe Thomas. Disclaimer: If this comment is about an NBA uniform from 2017-2018 or later, do not constitute a lack of acknowledgement of the corporate logo to mean anything other than "the corporate logo is terrible and makes the uniform significantly worse." Â BADGERS TWINS VIKINGS TIMBERWOLVES WILD POTD (Shared) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac the Knife Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 And in that scenario, the Raiders end up, where, exactly? San Antonio? St. Louis? Freaking San Diego? All stupid solutions.Who knows, but the Raiders had as much opportunity to land a new stadium over the past decade and a half as the 49'ers did - in fact, they had more opportunities because they were willing to go outside the Bay Area for the right deal. The Raiders screwed over at least two municipalities in doing so (Irwindale I recall, the other's name escapes me). So I don't see too many people giving them much by way of sympathy now. There may actually be a deal to be made for the Raiders in the Bay Area, but there's not one to be made as long as a member of the Davis family is at their helm - there's just too much history there.I think San Antonio would actually prove a good market for the Raiders. I can't see St. Louis or San Diego warming up to them, even over time; St. Louis has been jerked around too much and San Diego taking the Raiders to their bosom would be akin to the FBI hiring Al Capone as an agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanMcD29 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I hate to go all "well actually" with the Bills, but man, when I was up at Syracuse half their games were blacked out. This whole "Bills attendance is so great even with an awful team!" thing is a little bit of a myth. Otherwise, yeah, Ice Cap's point pretty much sums things up. Twitter: @RyanMcD29 // College Crosse: Where I write, chat, and infograph lacrosse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMU Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 And in that scenario, the Raiders end up, where, exactly? San Antonio? St. Louis? Freaking San Diego? All stupid solutions.Who knows, but the Raiders had as much opportunity to land a new stadium over the past decade and a half as the 49'ers did - in fact, they had more opportunities because they were willing to go outside the Bay Area for the right deal. The Raiders screwed over at least two municipalities in doing so (Irwindale I recall, the other's name escapes me). So I don't see too many people giving them much by way of sympathy now. There may actually be a deal to be made for the Raiders in the Bay Area, but there's not one to be made as long as a member of the Davis family is at their helm - there's just too much history there.I think San Antonio would actually prove a good market for the Raiders. I can't see St. Louis or San Diego warming up to them, even over time; St. Louis has been jerked around too much and San Diego taking the Raiders to their bosom would be akin to the FBI hiring Al Capone as an agent.Ironically it's Inglewood, and on the very site that Kroenke is about to break ground on. Davis was all set to build there but balked when the NFL wanted him to go in with a second team.------What continues to be overlooked in the St. Louis discussion is that the city is the one that broke the lease. There was no loophole that the team tried to exploit. The city agreed to maintain the EJD to a certain standard and they did not live up to their end of the agreement. Add the declining attendance numbers and you have every justification for Kroenke to get out of dodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I hate to go all "well actually" with the Bills, but man, when I was up at Syracuse half their games were blacked out. This whole "Bills attendance is so great even with an awful team!" thing is a little bit of a myth. Otherwise, yeah, Ice Cap's point pretty much sums things up.19 games in the last 15 years. Not great, but not half. The stadium is also one of the biggest in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockstar Matt Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I hate to go all "well actually" with the Bills, but man, when I was up at Syracuse half their games were blacked out. This whole "Bills attendance is so great even with an awful team!" thing is a little bit of a myth. Otherwise, yeah, Ice Cap's point pretty much sums things up.19 games in the last 15 years. Not great, but not half. The stadium is also one of the biggest in the NFL.Wait, what? I thought they were on the lower half of the league in terms of stadium capacity.EDIT: I stand corrected. They have the 8th largest stadium in terms of stadium capacity. Cowboys - Lakers - LAFC - USMNT - LA Rams - LA Kings - NUFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanMcD29 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I hate to go all "well actually" with the Bills, but man, when I was up at Syracuse half their games were blacked out. This whole "Bills attendance is so great even with an awful team!" thing is a little bit of a myth. Otherwise, yeah, Ice Cap's point pretty much sums things up.19 games in the last 15 years. Not great, but not half. The stadium is also one of the biggest in the NFL.I meant half as in the 4 year period I was up there. Now granted, the Bills have done a real nice recovery since then, so things are looking a lot brighter for them and they're certainly in Buffalo for the long haul with Pegula. Twitter: @RyanMcD29 // College Crosse: Where I write, chat, and infograph lacrosse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I think San Antonio would actually prove a good market for the Raiders. I can't see St. Louis or San Diego warming up to them, even over time; St. Louis has been jerked around too much and San Diego taking the Raiders to their bosom would be akin to the FBI hiring Al Capone as an agent. What continues to be overlooked in the St. Louis discussion is that the city is the one that broke the lease. There was no loophole that the team tried to exploit. The city agreed to maintain the EJD to a certain standard and they did not live up to their end of the agreement. Add the declining attendance numbers and you have every justification for Kroenke to get out of dodge.Good point. St. Louis could have locked the Rams in until 2015, just by abiding with the arbitrator's ruling. They chose not to. Joe Buck should remember that before he makes a fool of himself again. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMU Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Carson, you might want to stop counting your chickens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 I swear, out of every single person involved in this whole thing, Kroenke is looking the most reasonable and the most sympathetic.This week, we've had Buck's unique combination of petulance and entitlement, and now Carson prematurely celebrating. It's enough to make me root for the Rams to move. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschoolvikings Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 I swear, out of every single person involved in this whole thing, Kroenke is looking the most reasonable and the most sympathetic.This week, we've had Buck's unique combination of petulance and entitlement, and now Carson prematurely celebrating. It's enough to make me root for the Rams to move.I'm already there. Â http://dstewartpaint.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Between all that, and the reprehensible Missouri politicians, Kroenke is the least scummy person involved in this whole thing. It's very confusing. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubsFanBudMan Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Just catching up on Joe Buck's tweets and his talking points align with STL FANATIC and Bernie Miklasz. Homers or not, Buck has a little more to lose taking on the NFL. Surely, there has to be some merit to these arguments, because I doubt Buck would put his job on the line to make them otherwise. It's got to be more than being blindly pro-St. Louis. Lest you think I exaggerate the threat, ESPN blinks every time the NFL even glances its way. But the lead Fox broadcaster gets a pass? He's not *that* entitled.I roll my eyes at times, too, but the stars have aligned in a really odd way for St. Louis. The timing was all wrong on many levels. And with what was going on last football season in the area, "Rams rallies" had to be pretty low on the list. #Billionaireslivelihoodsmatter?I'm just not going to fault them for that, considering that their suspicions about their owner turned out to be true. Which came first, the lame duck or the egg? That seems to be the argument.They shouldn't even put up a fight. Just build a soccer stadium on the land and jump ahead a decade instead of chasing the NFL....Also, D'Agostino's and La Rosa thin crusts. And I'll just leave this here:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quad_City-style_pizzaDon't knock it until you've tried it. (Now in Chicago!)/pizza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCap Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 No, he came off as pretty entitled. In my opinion, at any rate. PotD 26/2/12 1/7/15 2020 BASS Spin the Wheel, Make the Deal Regular Season Champion 2021 BASS NFL Pick'em Regular Season Champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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