NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[NJTank]

The Jaguars should move.

Jacksonville is a not a major league market, and there are two other teams in Florida plus near by Atlanta.

[Gothamite]

Where in that quoted statement did I say they had a blackout?

But by the way, how are those tarps doing?

If you can't combat the argument, then make it personal. Not unheard of in these parts.

Without arguing about whether the Rams will move (I still believe there's extremely possible ways around it, although every pitiful performance Kroenke allows makes it less likely), how likely is it really that St. Louis gets a third shot?

In the absence of a local billionaire already owning a team in a failed market elsewhere? Not going to happen.

But Khan might be willing to move the Jags into the then-vacant dome only because playing in Jacksonville is an even worse situation.

Even with the tarp it is still one of the bigger stadiums. The tickets get sold. I have been right about everything and you have been wrong. Lets keep it going.

No, the tickets are being given away. By the thousands. Even with the greatly reduced capacity, they need to artificially inflate attendance to avoid blackouts. And then only with extensions from the league.

You'll need a more compelling argument than "they can give away tickets" to bolster any claim that the Jags are suddenly well-supported.

[Island_Style]

They were sold to Shahid Khan, the St. Louis businessman who tried to buy the Rams.

As we've been discussing on other threads, I think it more likely he moves them to St. Louis when the Rams go to LA.

Why would the NFL move a third team to a market that is looking really bad right this second? No way. The Jags sell tickets and they are in the black. No reason to move. This isn't 2008 any more. Teams copy the Jags ticket selling model for a reason.

[tBBP]

This sucks, if only for the reason that we'll likely, when all the dominoes fall and the merry go-round stops spinning, see the elimination of the Jaguars' color scheme in the NFL. Had they been the team to relocate to L.A., I could've seen that scheme translating nicely into some type of Aztec-themed identity, but as it stands now, if the Jags do relocate to the Lou, I don't see that color scheme, and definitely not the nickname, going with them.

Which now prematurely opens up this can of worms...what would the new StL team be called?

(Bear in mind this is all purely hypothetical, not a predictor or even a half-baked guess about the future.)

[Island_Style]

Where in that quoted statement did I say they had a blackout?

But by the way, how are those tarps doing?

If you can't combat the argument, then make it personal. Not unheard of in these parts.

Without arguing about whether the Rams will move (I still believe there's extremely possible ways around it, although every pitiful performance Kroenke allows makes it less likely), how likely is it really that St. Louis gets a third shot?

In the absence of a local billionaire already owning a team in a failed market elsewhere? Not going to happen.

But Khan might be willing to move the Jags into the then-vacant dome only because playing in Jacksonville is an even worse situation.

Even with the tarp it is still one of the bigger stadiums. The tickets get sold. I have been right about everything and you have been wrong. Lets keep it going.

No, the tickets are being given away. By the thousands. Even with the greatly reduced capacity, they need to artificially inflate attendance to avoid blackouts. And then only with extensions from the league.

You'll need a more compelling argument than "they can give away tickets" to bolster any claim that the Jags are suddenly well-supported.

Wrong again, like you are always with the Jags. Most are bought by fans. The remaining 5k or so is bought by local business. You said a team needs that to stay in it's market, didn't you. Not bad for a team with one playoff win in over a decade. A lot of teams in the league cant say that.

[STL FANATIC]

They were sold to Shahid Khan, the St. Louis businessman who tried to buy the Rams.

As we've been discussing on other threads, I think it more likely he moves them to St. Louis when the Rams go to LA.

Why would the NFL move a third team to a market that is looking really bad right this second? No way. The Jags sell tickets and they are in the black. No reason to move. This isn't 2008 any more. Teams copy the Jags ticket selling model for a reason.

St. Louis looks like a really bad market right now?

St. Louis has a bad stadium with a lease that doesn't allow for that, end of story. That's why they might move. Well that and the fact that a shiny city is about to have a shiny new stadium. Has NOTHING to do with the fans. Fan support is fine (good enough that local businesses can buy up the tickets to avoid blackouts) right now, and tremendous if there's even a half decent chance here at the Rams winning football games.

I'm not here ripping on Jacksonville, either, for the record, although I'm less convinced they're an NFL market that I could be.

[Mac the Knife]

Why would the NFL move a third team to a market that is looking really bad right this second? No way. The Jags sell tickets and they are in the black. No reason to move. This isn't 2008 any more. Teams copy the Jags ticket selling model for a reason.

Uh... if they're the model, the NFL is in trouble. Avoiding blackouts isn't exactly the standard NFL teams want to strive for.

Here's a scenario - one that's actually happened in NFL history - that could play out. Khan buys the Jags, and swaps that franchise for the Rams. The Rams stay in St. Louis under Khan, while the Jags move to Los Angeles. The Rams fan base undergoes minimal grief, Los Angeles gets an AFC market, and the Jacksonville chapter comes to an end.

Oh, and the precedent? It involved the Rams, when Carroll Rosenbloom got Robert Irsay to buy the Rams, then trade them to Rosenbloom for the then-Baltimore Colts.

[STL FANATIC]

This sucks, if only for the reason that we'll likely, when all the dominoes fall and the merry go-round stops spinning, see the elimination of the Jaguars' color scheme in the NFL. Had they been the team to relocate to L.A., I could've seen that scheme translating nicely into some type of Aztec-themed identity, but as it stands now, if the Jags do relocate to the Lou, I don't see that color scheme, and definitely not the nickname, going with them.

Which now prematurely opens up this can of worms...what would the new StL team be called?

(Bear in mind this is all purely hypothetical, not a predictor or even a half-baked guess about the future.)

How about the Stallions?

St. Louis was supposed to get the franchise that the Jaguars became, but financing or something (I wasn't old enough to comprehend) or something fell through. That franchise would have been called the St. Louis Stallions.

[TBGKon]

This sucks, if only for the reason that we'll likely, when all the dominoes fall and the merry go-round stops spinning, see the elimination of the Jaguars' color scheme in the NFL. Had they been the team to relocate to L.A., I could've seen that scheme translating nicely into some type of Aztec-themed identity, but as it stands now, if the Jags do relocate to the Lou, I don't see that color scheme, and definitely not the nickname, going with them.

Which now prematurely opens up this can of worms...what would the new StL team be called?

(Bear in mind this is all purely hypothetical, not a predictor or even a half-baked guess about the future.)

How about the Stallions?

St. Louis was supposed to get the franchise that the Jaguars became, but financing or something (I wasn't old enough to comprehend) or something fell through. That franchise would have been called the St. Louis Stallions.

I like Stallions in general but not with 2 horse-related teams already existing.

[STL FANATIC]

This sucks, if only for the reason that we'll likely, when all the dominoes fall and the merry go-round stops spinning, see the elimination of the Jaguars' color scheme in the NFL. Had they been the team to relocate to L.A., I could've seen that scheme translating nicely into some type of Aztec-themed identity, but as it stands now, if the Jags do relocate to the Lou, I don't see that color scheme, and definitely not the nickname, going with them.

Which now prematurely opens up this can of worms...what would the new StL team be called?

(Bear in mind this is all purely hypothetical, not a predictor or even a half-baked guess about the future.)

How about the Stallions?

St. Louis was supposed to get the franchise that the Jaguars became, but financing or something (I wasn't old enough to comprehend) or something fell through. That franchise would have been called the St. Louis Stallions.

I like Stallions in general but not with 2 horse-related teams already existing.

I was just throwing it out with the hypothetical. I'm not convinced they'll even change names if this all happens.

[Island_Style]

I will say what I said last time. Wait and see, I will be right. I was about them in 08. I was right to the T.

Mac, The Bucs are using Jaguar tactics to try and gain more sales. It worked for the Jags. Yes, they are a success right now. A lot of blackouts in the league now. TV isn't what it was like in 88.

[Gothamite]

Yes, other teams are also desperate. Other teams have resorted to the Jaguars' tactic of giving away thousands of tickets to artificially inflate attendance and avoid blackouts.

Doesn't make the Jaguars a solid franchise. Only a creative shaky one.

[McCall]

Why would the NFL move a third team to a market that is looking really bad right this second? No way. The Jags sell tickets and they are in the black. No reason to move. This isn't 2008 any more. Teams copy the Jags ticket selling model for a reason.

Uh... if they're the model, the NFL is in trouble. Avoiding blackouts isn't exactly the standard NFL teams want to strive for.

Here's a scenario - one that's actually happened in NFL history - that could play out. Khan buys the Jags, and swaps that franchise for the Rams. The Rams stay in St. Louis under Khan, while the Jags move to Los Angeles. The Rams fan base undergoes minimal grief, Los Angeles gets an AFC market, and the Jacksonville chapter comes to an end.

Oh, and the precedent? It involved the Rams, when Carroll Rosenbloom got Robert Irsay to buy the Rams, then trade them to Rosenbloom for the then-Baltimore Colts.

That's what I was thinking. There was mention this summer about a possible "trade" with Kroenke taking on the Broncos so he could control his other Denver teams, with the Bronco owners taking the Rams and moving them to LA. I think this could now happen here. For PR-sake, it would help Kroenke save face around here. Still getting a team to LA (or trading it for Denver), while allowing the Rams to stay in St. Louis. Things are getting interesting.

[Mac the Knife]

That's what I was thinking. There was mention this summer about a possible "trade" with Kroenke taking on the Broncos so he could control his other Denver teams, with the Bronco owners taking the Rams and moving them to LA. I think this could now happen here. For PR-sake, it would help Kroenke save face around here. Still getting a team to LA (or trading it for Denver), while allowing the Rams to stay in St. Louis. Things are getting interesting.

I can't see that happening, but only because I've not heard anything about Pat Bowlen being interested in selling, nor relocating to take over a team in another city.

[Gothamite]

I think the idea if a trade is fascinating, but whatever team moves to LA would be significantly more valuable upon doing do. Any trade would have to take that into account, so it'll get very complicated.

[STL FANATIC]

That's what I was thinking. There was mention this summer about a possible "trade" with Kroenke taking on the Broncos so he could control his other Denver teams, with the Bronco owners taking the Rams and moving them to LA. I think this could now happen here. For PR-sake, it would help Kroenke save face around here. Still getting a team to LA (or trading it for Denver), while allowing the Rams to stay in St. Louis. Things are getting interesting.

I can't see that happening, but only because I've not heard anything about Pat Bowlen being interested in selling, nor relocating to take over a team in another city.

Well the original rumor was the Broncos, but I THINK what McCall is now saying would be this...

Khan moves the Jaguars to LA, Kroenke keeps the Rams in St. Louis. They then trade teams.

You wind up with the St. Louis Rams owned by Khan and the Los Angeles Jaguars owned by Kroenke.

[CubsFanBudMan]

All the scenarios that ran through my head when I saw this story have pretty much been covered here: Stallions, franchise swaps, etc.

Plenty of spins to choose from: L.A. gets the Rams back, St. Louis gets the expansion team it should have had all along, or swap franchises and let the St. Louis Rams be "saved," or play it out the long way and use the Jags as bait for a stadium after the Rams leave (seems risky to me to not orchestrate something all at once for a 3rd-team city). Anyone who thinks strings aren't being pulled after seeing Khan's name pop up...

And who knows, maybe the Broncos are still a factor. 3 team swap? And who says this isn't supposed to help push the Vikings as well. Interesting stuff. I don't pretend to know how things will play out, but I'd feel better as a St. Louis NFL fan than a Jax NFL fan, at least for today.

[Saintsfan]

Is there any reason that both the Rams and Jags might head to LA? Set up a groundshare like in New York. Would that work, or is that too much like going back to the 80s?

[bosrs1]

It's being discussed in the Farmers Field thread. I'll probably slide this in there, it all relates.

And the details are that it is Shad Khan, a Champaign, IL businessman who loves St. Louis and the Rams. The wheels are REALLY spinning now.

Yeah suddenly the Jaguars are back in play to at least move to St. Louis if the Rams move out so things are going to get interesting. Their lease was part of what we keeping them in Florida, but the big factor was Weaver. With him gone a larger portion of what was anchoring them there is gone. And sure Khan is saying they're staying in Florida, if he said otherwise he'd be an idiot. The second you announce you're moving you turn your team into a lame duck who can't sell tickets like the Oilers in the 90's. No one is that stupid anymore.

[bosrs1]

Is there any reason that both the Rams and Jags might head to LA? Set up a groundshare like in New York. Would that work, or is that too much like going back to the 80s?

I think the common assumption is that if there is going to be a second team it'll be the Chargers, particularly if the first is the Rams. The Chargers owners are long time friends with Anschutz, they've been having negotiations, the SD stadium situation is pretty dire, and the team is so bad right now they're on the verge of an all out fan revolt the likes of which the team has never seen. It would be the perfect time for them to bail.