NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[Black Adam]

The NFL could just expand with 8 more teams and put realignment talk to bed forever at 40. Give Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Portland, San Antonio, Orlando, Memphis, Salt Lake City and Columbus teams and call it a day.

Yeah, because why bother with a mere one or two failed markets, when you could have five or six more besides?

Are there really failed markets when it comes to the NFL? What is the last team you remember folding? All too often teams leave cities because the owner wants taxpayers to build/upgrade a stadium for them. We all know these owners can't afford to fix up their own facilities.

[FinsUp1214]

Well, if we're going to talk that list of markets proposed by quest fundido: as someone who lives south of the metro area, Salt Lake City would not be a good choice at all. In fact, I don't think we'll ever get a team. And I don't say that in a defeatist manner - it doesn't bother me personally at all - I just dont think it's a market that could viably sustain an NFL team, both now and in the future. It's a great sports market, as the Jazz and RSL are very well supported. But that's about as much as we can hold for now.

Besides, Utah is pretty much a Broncos stronghold for the most part (with the exception of a few fans of different allegiances here and there), so most football fans here from what I've observed carry on as if they already do have a team anyways.

EDIT: Eh, this may have been more derailing than contributive...carry on if you wish, everyone. Sorry!

[CubsFanBudMan]

EDIT: Never mind. Let's stick with the Utah tangent instead...

[DustDevil61]

Well, if we're going to talk that list of markets proposed by quest fundido: as someone who lives south of the metro area, Salt Lake City would not be a good choice at all. In fact, I don't think we'll ever get a team. And I don't say that in a defeatist manner - it doesn't bother me personally at all - I just dont think it's a market that could viably sustain an NFL team, both now and in the future. It's a great sports market, as the Jazz and RSL are very well supported. But that's about as much as we can hold for now.

Besides, Utah is pretty much a Broncos stronghold for the most part (with the exception of a few fans of different allegiances here and there), so most football fans here from what I've observed carry on as if they already do have a team anyways.

I'd agree so as well, given the general Wasatch Front's size and the fact that it's a college football hotbed (Utah, BYU, and to a lesser extent Utah State), I don't see it happening. But hey, if the Rams are shut out of Los Angeles and Stan Kroenke is looking for markets, "Utah Rams" has a nice ring to it.

And yea, I kinda like everyone having their own allegiances, though it's true that the Broncos are probably the favorite team in these parts. But don't forget, the 49ers--and to an extent the Raiders and Seahawks--have pretty loyal followings here, too.

But back to the topic at hand...I'm still convinced that this is going to be one big fuster of cluck if Kroenke is denied LA, and the fallout will be extensive--be it in St. Louis, Los Angeles, or anywhere else.

[2001mark]

I think they should give Los Angeles the entire AFC.

I used to like the idea of giving LA prime time host duties. Neutral field in a place with a lot of different fans, including those who could travel, in good weather.

Down side is team travel. If the Dolphins were playing the Chiefs on MNF, hell's bells if they'd each want to fly across country to play.

Though, the league does give the same setup for London, scheduling byes right after.

[BBTV]

Well, if we're going to talk that list of markets proposed by quest fundido:..

We're not. It's silly.

[pcgd]

Blaming the Rams fans for not showing up these last few games is like blaming a woman for not sucking up to her husband after she's already found lipstick on his collar.

Except in this case, St. Louis is more like a husband who's decided not to sleep with wife any more, and after a couple years of rejection she starts to look around for someone who would appreciate her.

Not to mention that all the while the husband's been flirting with a certain red-headed floozy downtown.

Well its more like a husband (Lets call him Stan) left his wife (Angela) for another (LouAnn). Then his LouAnn stopped sleeping with him, acted kinda racist, and let herself go a bit, but all in all is still quite fetching to most, just isn't sleeping with Stan as much. Angela meanwhile, has got a ton of work done on herself, so Stan starts flirting with her a bit. But now Stan starts abusing new wife, threatening getting back together with Angela, calling out all of LouAnn's flaws on Facebook for the world to see. People don't really like LouAnn on Facebook though because they find her insufferable for her massive bird collection. So now, Facebook hates both of them.

In the end, Stan probably will end up with Angela and live happily ever after. LouAnn will be sad for awhile, but she'll in reality be happier in the end knowing that she has her birds and can go back to ignoring Stan and his friends like she has already done with her ex-boyfriends the Silna brothers.

[Josh.0]

Well, if we're going to talk that list of markets proposed by quest fundido: as someone who lives south of the metro area, Salt Lake City would not be a good choice at all. In fact, I don't think we'll ever get a team. And I don't say that in a defeatist manner - it doesn't bother me personally at all - I just dont think it's a market that could viably sustain an NFL team, both now and in the future. It's a great sports market, as the Jazz and RSL are very well supported. But that's about as much as we can hold for now.

Besides, Utah is pretty much a Broncos stronghold for the most part (with the exception of a few fans of different allegiances here and there), so most football fans here from what I've observed carry on as if they already do have a team anyways.

I'd agree so as well, given the general Wasatch Front's size and the fact that it's a college football hotbed (Utah, BYU, and to a lesser extent Utah State), I don't see it happening. But hey, if the Rams are shut out of Los Angeles and Stan Kroenke is looking for markets, "Utah Rams" has a nice ring to it.

And yea, I kinda like everyone having their own allegiances, though it's true that the Broncos are probably the favorite team in these parts. But don't forget, the 49ers--and to an extent the Raiders and Seahawks--have pretty loyal followings here, too.

But back to the topic at hand...I'm still convinced that this is going to be one big fuster of cluck if Kroenke is denied LA, and the fallout will be extensive--be it in St. Louis, Los Angeles, or anywhere else.

It probably goes 49ers, Broncos, Cowboys, Bandwagon Team of the Year.

I am guilty of the latter -- I love the NFL in general and just never pledged allegiance to a team, because we don't have a team here in Utah. And, just never felt strongly to one team over another.

But, really, there's NO way I ever see a team here in Utah. Not only for the reasons mentioned above, but I really do wonder what the Mormon/Sunday thing would do to attendance, etc?

[Lee Noire]

I can't believe 3 teams are vying for LA, especially how the city was used like a cheap hooker by the NFL for so many years. It's amazing to see. I'm a Cowboys fan through and through, but it would be nice to have a hometown team to go see since I can't travel to see the Boys on a regular basis.

I am a bit vexed as to why San Diego is trying to move though. San Diego is only a couple hours from LA, but the two areas couldn't be more far apart in terms of drive and fanbase. I just moved from LA last year and I lived there damn near my whole life. Not exactly a Chargers hotbed.

So I'm really trying to figure out what Spanos is trying to achieve here. Why he is trying to lay claim on an area he doesn't really have any ties to. Like I said SD and LA aren't exactly neighbors in the way that Anaheim can claim it's a suburb of LA.

[queso fundido]

My post earlier was kind of a joke, but as a person who grew up near St Louis and loves the city, this hurts. I hope St Louis is able to get another team in the future.

Stan Kroenke is a curse to any sports team he touches. All the teams he owns in the US (Rams, Rapids and Nuggets) are dead last in league attendance outside of the Colorado Avalanche at 22 of 30. Los Angeles will be happy to have the Rams back until they realize what garbage the Rams are with their current owner. Unless something drastic changes I give it ten years tops and the LA Rams will be near dead last in the NFL in attendance.

St Louis can support a NFL team with a decent owner and good product on the field. Who wants to spend their hard earned money on something that is not worth it? The Cardinals are worth it and it shows. (#2 in MLB attendance). I grew up with the Rams and remember the excitement when they were coming to St Louis. I can relate to LA fans and have no hard feelings. At least I can always look back at the good old days and remember seeing Warner, Faulk and the greatest show on turf.

[TheOldRoman]

What if the league doesn't approve him and STL commits to building this stadium - how do you support an owner that said all that (albeit it's all probably true) about your city and tried to move the team? How do you spend $50K on a PSL to a stadium that you are footing a good portion of the bill for and will make that guy even richer? I don't know the mentality of a STL fan, but I would think that the only way the team can stay at this point is if he sells them, or does some kind of franchise swap and ends up in LA with some other club.

I honestly don't think that would be an issue. There have been several teams which nearly moved and still were embraced. The fans would hate Kroenke, but they'd still have the Rams. So they'd go to games (probably at the same rate they go now) and some would hold up signs calling for Stan to be publically eviscerated. However, if the Rams won a Super Bowl in two years, the fans would cheer Stan as he hoisted the Lombardi trophy and said he was glad they were able to get the mess sorted out who his hometown could keep its team.

Besides, he'd probably wait for the windfall of the new stadium and immediately sell, but I don't see them staying in STL as realistic at this point.

[The_Admiral]

demanding a moratorium on Stan Kroenke sex metaphors

[BBTV]

I can't believe 3 teams are vying for LA, especially how the city was used like a cheap hooker by the NFL for so many years. It's amazing to see. I'm a Cowboys fan through and through, but it would be nice to have a hometown team to go see since I can't travel to see the Boys on a regular basis.

I am a bit vexed as to why San Diego is trying to move though. San Diego is only a couple hours from LA, but the two areas couldn't be more far apart in terms of drive and fanbase. I just moved from LA last year and I lived there damn near my whole life. Not exactly a Chargers hotbed.

So I'm really trying to figure out what Spanos is trying to achieve here. Why he is trying to lay claim on an area he doesn't really have any ties to. Like I said SD and LA aren't exactly neighbors in the way that Anaheim can claim it's a suburb of LA.

It's been covered several times. Spanos isn't getting a new sweet stadium in SD, but can get one in a bigger / more lucrative market.

Plus he claims that a significant percentage of revenue comes from the LA market, which I don't think has ever been proven, but has been repeated over and over again (including to the fans when explaining why he filed to move.)

His points are: 1) his stadium in SD blows and doesn't make money, and he can't get a new one, and 2) he doesn't want to lose his apocryphal LA revenue streams because some other team takes over that market.

[The_Admiral]

The responsible thing to do would be to say that we're not pulling out of a major market and tourist destination like San Diego so sit your ass down.

[leopard88]

Btw, why does Jacksonville have a team?

Because Paul Tagliabue was going to move heaven and earth to make sure the NFL expanded into new Sun Belt cities instead of Baltimore and St. Louis (even if at least one of those ciites was much smaller and would struggle to draw fans for many years).

[FiddySicks]

The responsible thing to do would be to say that we're not pulling out of a major market and tourist destination like San Diego so sit your ass down.

Yup. This.

[Lee Noire]

I can't believe 3 teams are vying for LA, especially how the city was used like a cheap hooker by the NFL for so many years. It's amazing to see. I'm a Cowboys fan through and through, but it would be nice to have a hometown team to go see since I can't travel to see the Boys on a regular basis.

I am a bit vexed as to why San Diego is trying to move though. San Diego is only a couple hours from LA, but the two areas couldn't be more far apart in terms of drive and fanbase. I just moved from LA last year and I lived there damn near my whole life. Not exactly a Chargers hotbed.

So I'm really trying to figure out what Spanos is trying to achieve here. Why he is trying to lay claim on an area he doesn't really have any ties to. Like I said SD and LA aren't exactly neighbors in the way that Anaheim can claim it's a suburb of LA.

It's been covered several times. Spanos isn't getting a new sweet stadium in SD, but can get one in a bigger / more lucrative market.

Plus he claims that a significant percentage of revenue comes from the LA market, which I don't think has ever been proven, but has been repeated over and over again (including to the fans when explaining why he filed to move.)

His points are: 1) his stadium in SD blows and doesn't make money, and he can't get a new one, and 2) he doesn't want to lose his apocryphal LA revenue streams because some other team takes over that market.

Very informative. Thanks.

[dfwabel]

Btw, why does Jacksonville have a team?

Because Paul Tagliabue was going to move heaven and earth to make sure the NFL expanded into new Sun Belt cities instead of Baltimore and St. Louis (even if at least one of those ciites was much smaller and would struggle to draw fans for many years).

Jacksonville also guaranteed visiting teams the most money at the time, $1.1M/game.

[B-Rich]

Btw, why does Jacksonville have a team?

Because Paul Tagliabue was going to move heaven and earth to make sure the NFL expanded into new Sun Belt cities instead of Baltimore and St. Louis (even if at least one of those ciites was much smaller and would struggle to draw fans for many years).

Jacksonville also guaranteed visiting teams the most money at the time, $1.1M/game.

The most important reason Jacksonville was selected (and somewhat contradictory to Leopard's reason) was their potential owner at the time, J. Wayne Weaver.

The 1993 expansion was undertaken differently compared to previous expansions. In previous expansions, the city/metro area was first chosen, then an ownership group for that franchise was selected. After the NFL's adventures with such owners such as Al Davis, Bob Irsay, and Leonard Tose, on the 1993 go-round they asked that not only did a city need to offer its credentials, but also an owner or ownership group be identified. Memphis at one point in the early 90s was seen as a front runner, as Fred Smith (founder of FedEx) was heading that city's expansion effort, but he dropped out as majority owner before the formal expansion process even started, leaving Memphis an afterthought. The conventional wisdom at the time was that one "new' city and one "old' city would be selected. Charlotte was in the driver's seat, as they had shown recent strong support for the Hornets, was a growing city, and had a former NFL player and self-made businessman Jerry Richardson as the potential owner. They were easily selected as the 29th NFL franchise. The vote on the 30th team was about a month later. Baltimore had three different ownership groups vying for a franchise in that city, and St. Louis changed ownership groups in mid-process. With that much uncertainty on ownership, the other owners went with someone like them, someone that "fit the mold", and J. Wayne Weaver was that guy.

Interesting to note that one of the proposed Baltimore ownership groups was headed by Malcolm Glazer, who went on to own the Buccaneers, and the St. Louis "replacement" ownership group was headed by ... Stan Kroenke.

[The_Admiral]

I believe Walter Payton was supposed to be an investor in the St. Louis Stallions. Maybe he pulled out to spend all his money on nitrous tanks to get high off of.