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NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

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It would sure be exciting if the Raiders ended up in San Antonio be next season.

At least they have the right team colors to match the Spurs.

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Trust me, St. Louis Rams fans, you'll get over this more quickly than you thought possible.

I'd just like to throw this in here too...

Given the choice, I would much rather have lost the original Browns to Baltimore for 20 years only to have them come back to Cleveland than had my Browns replaced with an expansion team that just happened to look like my "real" team.

I am not sure about that.

You seem to be someone with a bit of a bent toward "general fandom." That is, not needing a "home" team to enjoy the sport. Some people pretty much rely on the home team. Neither is right nor wrong; they just are. Some people in St. Louis may adopt the Chiefs, Titans, or whoever. Some may stick with the Rams. Others may just watch "whoever whenever." But some just may lose interest.

No, I lost my favorite NFL team to Baltimore. I was more invested in the original Browns than any team I've ever followed. And it ain't even close. I lived and died with that team. Every Sunday during the NFL season was devoted to getting together with my fellow Browns fans to watch the game. I followed news of every offseason move like it was Moses come down from the mountain. To this day, I can still regale you with tales of meaningless Thursday night games from the 1981 season. Or the time in 1979 when we kicked the :censored: out of Dallas on a Monday night. And so on...

In August of 1990, I moved to Syracuse, NY. After the first weekend that I wasn't able to watch my beloved Browns, I damn near moved back to Ohio. Fortunately, I found a Browns bar there and ended up making a bunch of new friends that I'm still in contact with today. The Syracuse Browns fans were every bit as intense as us "Native Fans." We even did a bus trip to a Browns game every season. Long story short, I literally loved the original Cleveland Browns. I loved that team even more than I love my beloved Ohio State Buckeyes.

When the move to Baltimore was announced, I felt like someone had ripped out part of my very existence. To this day, I still get chills watching videos like this one.

That video reminds me of what it was like to really care about a team. I'll be honest, I miss that sometimes, but the truth is, as much as I loved the original Browns, I adjusted to life without them more easily and quickly than I ever thought I would. There's no doubt that losing my Browns changed the the kind of sports fan I am, but in some ways it's better now than it was then.

Trust me, I know all about having a home team and I know all about the the pain of losing that team. My point was simply that the "pain" can be easier to deal with than people think it is.

EDIT: And I'm going to throw this in here too - us original Browns fans were the best fans in football. Period. B)

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Three teams in Texas is way too many. The Texas Triangle is probably equidistant to Chicago/Indianapolis/St. Louis in terms of megaregion distance, but would putting a 3rd NFL team in Texas really generate enough support? San Antonio's been very kind to the successful Spurs, but would they stop cheering for the Cowboys and Texans?

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I really think in the end the Chargers make the move north -- mainly to keep the Raiders out of LA. Especially if they truly believe it'd tap into their market too much to have two LA teams.

But, if/when they move it'd be interesting to see if they protected the San Diego market from a relocated or expansion team? Or at least ask for compensation to a new team?

It will be interesting to see what this means to the Raiders. I'd love to see them stay in the Bay Area, but if they moved LA would be, in my opinion, the only reasonable move.

But, who knows? San Diego? San Antonio? St. Louis? Portland? Las Vegas? Chicago?

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Three teams in Texas is way too many. The Texas Triangle is probably equidistant to Chicago/Indianapolis/St. Louis in terms of megaregion distance, but would putting a 3rd NFL team in Texas really generate enough support? San Antonio's been very kind to the successful Spurs, but would they stop cheering for the Cowboys and Texans?

I don't imagine many people care about the Texans outside of the greater Houston area, but the Cowboys being such a huge team would be a problem. I mean, wherever there are cholos, there will be Raiders fans, and other people flock to them because of their cool colors and bad-boy image. But I'd have to guess being near Dallas and the Cowboys winning five championships would be too much for the Raiders to overcome in San Antonio unless they went on a great, decade-long run which coincided with the Cowboys being awful.

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Trust me, St. Louis Rams fans, you'll get over this more quickly than you thought possible.

I'd just like to throw this in here too...

Given the choice, I would much rather have lost the original Browns to Baltimore for 20 years only to have them come back to Cleveland than had my Browns replaced with an expansion team that just happened to look like my "real" team.

I am not sure about that.

You seem to be someone with a bit of a bent toward "general fandom." That is, not needing a "home" team to enjoy the sport. Some people pretty much rely on the home team. Neither is right nor wrong; they just are. Some people in St. Louis may adopt the Chiefs, Titans, or whoever. Some may stick with the Rams. Others may just watch "whoever whenever." But some just may lose interest.

No, I lost my favorite NFL team to Baltimore. I was more invested in the original Browns than any team I've ever followed. And it ain't even close. I lived and died with that team. Every Sunday during the NFL season was devoted to getting together with my fellow Browns fans to watch the game. I followed news of every offseason move like it was Moses come down from the mountain. To this day, I can still regale you with tales of meaningless Thursday night games from the 1981 season. Or the time in 1979 when we kicked the :censored: out of Dallas on a Monday night. And so on...

I did not know that...though I did have some sense that the Browns spurned you. Either way you seem to have adjusted to the whole "not having a team" thing but I don't know that means all former StL Ram fans will...Oh well, I think we've split enough hairs on this wrong.

It is interesting that the "franchise certificate" did not impact you as it was designed to...

EDIT: And I'm going to throw this in here too - us original Browns fans were the best fans in football. Period. B)

Ugh. I get so sick of this and this is so wrong. Man.

It's "WE" original Browns fans...

:P

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You got to feel for St.Louis. This is the 4th time they lost an NFL franchise. First it was the St.Louis All Stars. Then the St.Louis Gunners (who were a temp team anyway), then the St.Louis Cardinals. And now the St.Louis Rams.

I was a big All Stars fan too. Man that rivalry we had with the Dayton Triangles. I used to have a banner hanging from my buggy when I would ride down main street with my horses trying to impress all those sexy flapper women. Then I would go to the local speakeasy for some bootlegged hooch. After games I would telegraph my friend a street over and then I would listen to the teams victory song on my phonograph. Polio was a problem in those days but we didn't care.

Ahhh memories.

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EDIT: And I'm going to throw this in here too - us original Browns fans were the best fans in football. Period. B)

Ugh. I get so sick of this and this is so wrong. Man.

It's "WE" original Browns fans...

:P

I know. I did that on purpose - a little tribute to the old gang. B)

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It is interesting that the "franchise certificate" did not impact you as it was designed to...

Imagine that your significant other just walks out the door one day and then three years later an exact replica of her shows up and says "Hi, I'm back." She may look the same, she may have the same name, but you know in your heart that it's not really her. That's the "new" Browns to me.

I really tried to get onboard with the new Browns but it just didn't take. I'd follow the games but I honestly didn't care if they won or lost. It wasn't the same team and I knew that. I realized my relationship with the new Browns was in serious trouble when I found myself rooting against them when they played the Packers. I finally gave up for good when they changed the uniforms. The uniforms were the last (really the only) connection the new Browns had to the original Browns.

While it will never be quite the same as it was with the original Browns, I'm pretty happy with being a Packers Shareholder and fan. I've liked the Packers since I was a kid so it was a very natural progression. I'm pretty "invested" in the Pack as a fan. Hell, I even got pretty damned upset during the NFC title game last year. That's a good sign for me.

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Losing a pro sports team is terrible. I had only lived in Seattle for two years when the Sonics left, but it was still a pretty crappy feeling. I hadn't built an attachment to the team; the two seasons I lived in Seattle with the Sonics they went 31-51 and 20-62, and I was in grad school and broke. I only saw one Sonics game live, an 86-85 win over an equally terrible Knicks team.

But the season after they left felt pretty empty. Seattle has a ton of over pro and college options, so it's not like there weren't things to do post-Sonics. However, I did feel excluded from a club. That Seattle's attempts to get back in the league have been so ham-fisted and pathetic makes the whole thing even worse. Plus the NBA is my favorite sports league, the weather sucks during basketball season and I'd love to be able to see the games. Oh well.

My recommendation to spurned Rams fans is to find something else to do on fall and winter Sundays. And don't hold your breath for a new franchise. The Cleveland and Houston examples were miracles, all things considered.

Losing an NBA team is a terrible feeling. Losing the NFL twice must be even worse.

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You got to feel for St.Louis. This is the 4th time they lost an NFL franchise. First it was the St.Louis All Stars. Then the St.Louis Gunners (who were a temp team anyway), then the St.Louis Cardinals. And now the St.Louis Rams.

I was a big All Stars fan too. Man that rivalry we had with the Dayton Triangles. I used to have a banner hanging from my buggy when I would ride down main street with my horses trying to impress all those sexy flapper women. Then I would go to the local speakeasy for some bootlegged hooch. After games I would telegraph my friend a street over and then I would listen to the teams victory song on my phonograph. Polio was a problem in those days but we didn't care.

Ahhh memories.

LOL at my desk....

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I really think in the end the Chargers make the move north -- mainly to keep the Raiders out of LA. Especially if they truly believe it'd tap into their market too much to have two LA teams.

But, if/when they move it'd be interesting to see if they protected the San Diego market from a relocated or expansion team? Or at least ask for compensation to a new team?

It will be interesting to see what this means to the Raiders. I'd love to see them stay in the Bay Area, but if they moved LA would be, in my opinion, the only reasonable move.

But, who knows? San Diego? San Antonio? St. Louis? Portland? Las Vegas? Chicago?

Honestly I have no idea what the Chargers will do. There are pros and cons to them moving to LA as essentially Kroenke's whipping boys. They'll have to pony up $550 million to essentially be renters (as Spanos doesn't have the scratch to partner fully on just the stadium). If they stay in San Diego they'll have to pony up that much to build a venue in San Diego. In SD their value would go up with their own stadium and they'd benefit from the ancillary revenues in a way they won't in Inglewood, but their value would go up more in LA. If they stay in San Diego there's a good chance the Raiders move into LA in 2017 as the second team, but if the Chargers move to LA now as the second post Rams team they'll forever be the Clippers to the Rams' Lakers, where in SD they'll always be king.

It's not a good situation by any measure for Spanos. He's going to take a big risk if he stays or if he goes, and will have to do some major fund raising to make either happen at this point. My gut says they'll still move to LA simply on franchise value. As for San Diego, since the league has already decreed it is a separate market there's no way Dean could prevent another team from coming to San Diego. And reportedly it's a market Mark Davis will explore for the Raiders should Spanos abandon it. So Spanos may be dealing with a SoCal based Raiders long term in either instance.

Really if anyone walked away from those meetings totally screwed yesterday it's Dean Spanos. Mark Davis walked away $100 million richer and still in the wealthiest market in the country, with essentially free reign to explore other cities. And Kroenke just saw his LA dreams come true along with a hefty bump in the value of his team. Dean walks away with a cloudy future, hard financial decisions to make, and likely 2 teams long term invading what he's always viewed as his territory.

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That would really be something to see Dean Spanos move the Chargers to LA because it'd be tooooooo haaaaaaaaaaaaaard to keep their northernmost fans otherwise, yet STILL try to block other teams from moving to San Diego because, hey! Dats still mine mine mine!

Seriously, :censored: Dean Spanos. With the head of an old Soviet nuclear cruise middle.

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Man, can't get over what an upgrade even a temporary stadium is going to be:

dome.jpgColiseum-2012.da_.jpg

Wonder how much the Rams will be allowed to cover up the USC stuff like the Clips do with the Lakers. The Vikings didn't seem to do much to downplay the University of Minnesota's presence.

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LA Coliseum may be old and decrypt but it is classic

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Man, can't get over what an upgrade even a temporary stadium is going to be:

dome.jpgColiseum-2012.da_.jpg

Wonder how much the Rams will be allowed to cover up the USC stuff like the Clips do with the Lakers. The Vikings didn't seem to do much to downplay the University of Minnesota's presence.

They will just tarp over most USC items, but 2018 may be a problem as USC looks to will start their Coliseum renovation plans. Rams may try to go 24/7 construction (if permitted) at some point to avoid not playing there in 2018.

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It's a shame the various parties have let the Coliseum go to :censored:, because it's such an iconic stadium. The arches look great from the inside, and the outside is also great, as shown in the photos of the Bring Back the Rams rally. In a perfect world, the Rams would play in an updated LA Coliseum.

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Actually, the Coliseum has been maintained fairly well. I wouldn't say it's "gone to :censored: " or "decrpyt [sic]".

It may be old, but it still holds up well for SC games.

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Will KLAC still be allowed to carry the Chargers in Los Angeles if the Rams are there and the Chargers are still in San Diego? I'm thinkin' no, right?

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