NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[bosrs1]

Looks like any possibility of the Bills moving to Toronto is dead. Rogers and the Jays are exploring putting grass down on the field at Rogers Centre and locking the currently movable seats into the baseball configuration permanently. The current plan would have them throwing the native CFL Argos out after the upcoming season and they also have now said they have no plans to extend the Bills lease to play in Toronto beyond it's conclusion this year. They plan to have the real grass down for the 2013 season if they can swing it.

http://www.guelphmercury.com/sports/baseball/article/667981--argos-will-likely-be-turfed-out-of-rogers-if-jays-get-grass

[Gothamite]

I never thought that was a serious consideration, but it's good to have closure there.

[DaytonBlue]

What's the impression of the Bills moving elsewhere than Toronto? I've heard rumors about it when Ralph Wilson dies, but nothing too factual?

I don't want any teams to move, just trying to gauge what's going on?

[bosrs1]

What's the impression of the Bills moving elsewhere than Toronto? I've heard rumors about it when Ralph Wilson dies, but nothing too factual?

I don't want any teams to move, just trying to gauge what's going on?

Well Wilson is putting them up for auction in his will, so in theory they could end up anywhere (other than Toronto) including LA. But until he dies it's kind of a moot point. He's not selling as long as he draws breath and even then there's no guarentee a local buyer doesn't come forth.

[BBTV]

Looks like any possibility of the Bills moving to Toronto is dead. Rogers and the Jays are exploring putting grass down on the field at Rogers Centre and locking the currently movable seats into the baseball configuration permanently. The current plan would have them throwing the native CFL Argos out after the upcoming season and they also have now said they have no plans to extend the Bills lease to play in Toronto beyond it's conclusion this year. They plan to have the real grass down for the 2013 season if they can swing it.

http://www.guelphmer...-jays-get-grass

How did San Diego do it with grass? Wouldn't Jack Murphy have had similar moving seats?

[JQK]

Looks like any possibility of the Bills moving to Toronto is dead. Rogers and the Jays are exploring putting grass down on the field at Rogers Centre and locking the currently movable seats into the baseball configuration permanently. The current plan would have them throwing the native CFL Argos out after the upcoming season and they also have now said they have no plans to extend the Bills lease to play in Toronto beyond it's conclusion this year. They plan to have the real grass down for the 2013 season if they can swing it.

http://www.guelphmer...-jays-get-grass

How did San Diego do it with grass? Wouldn't Jack Murphy have had similar moving seats?

Shea did it with grass too...

[Magnus]

I find it sad that the Argos would get kicked out. Where would they play? BMO Field doesn't want them.

And what about the 2012 Grey Cup in Toronto?

[TheOldRoman]

Check out Clem Baseball. This guy makes great diagrams of all parks. Maybe Skydome wouldn't work with it because a larger portion of the field would be covered in football configuration. If you look at the diagram, a lots of the football field is underneath the baseball seating, where none of the actual football field is covered up in other parks. Since it would be in baseball configuration the majority of the time, they would have to resod the area under those seats before every game, and as Soldier Field has shown, resodding the week of a game doesn't usually work well. Another thing is that the CFL season starts in June and overlaps baseball for four months, whereas the NFL starts in Sept and they would only have to put the stadium in an NFL set-up four times max during the baseball season (counting preseason). Also, the grass fields which were used for both sports ended up looking terrible as soon as football started, anyway. They also ended up resodding after baseball ended, and sod wouldn't take well in Toronto in October.

[TheOldRoman]

I find it sad that the Argos would get kicked out. Where would they play? BMO Field doesn't want them.

And what about the 2012 Grey Cup in Toronto?

They are still looking into the grass and it wouldn't be installed until 2013 at the earliest. Personally, I wouldn't be suprised if the grass doesn't take because it can't get enough sunlight due to the massive structure around it. They have experts looking into it, obviously, but experts also thought Gillette Field would be fine. Gillette had to lose the grass because the huge upper deck cut off the sunlight from hitting the grass except for a few hours a day.

[epper]

If/when Toronto gets an NFL team, it would not be in the SkyDome regardless of them putting in grass. It's too small for the NFL's standards to house a team permanently.

That being said: bring on the sod. I'd love for Rogers to sink some money into the dome and make it more baseball friendly. In a perfect world:

1) Add Grass with a real dirt infield

2) Change the angle of all the seats past the bases down the lines, angling toward home plate.

3) Demolish the hotel and add some giant glass panels, like Houston, Milwaukee, Miami. This lets in some natural light when the lid is closed and could offer spectacular views of downtown.

4) Add a Jays Museum with some statues around the exterior concourse: Joe Carter, Roberto Alomar and Dave Stieb

[Gothamite]

Do you guys think that the NFL is terribly interested in a Toronto franchise?

I get that a local tycoon could always buy a team and bring it to his hometown, but it doesn't seem to be so attractive a market that the league itself is eager to get a team there.

[bosrs1]

Looks like any possibility of the Bills moving to Toronto is dead. Rogers and the Jays are exploring putting grass down on the field at Rogers Centre and locking the currently movable seats into the baseball configuration permanently. The current plan would have them throwing the native CFL Argos out after the upcoming season and they also have now said they have no plans to extend the Bills lease to play in Toronto beyond it's conclusion this year. They plan to have the real grass down for the 2013 season if they can swing it.

http://www.guelphmer...-jays-get-grass

How did San Diego do it with grass? Wouldn't Jack Murphy have had similar moving seats?

Jack Murphy was of a different design more like what Dolphin Stadium had until this year. Rogers Centre is more like the old cookie cutter parks in how it transitions from football to baseball. And you'll recall that most of those had astroturf/field turf for much the same reason until they kicked football out in cases like Busch Stadium. But regardless they've said that once it goes grass they'd lock the stands down permanently. So the Argos should definitely look into shopping around for a new venue.

As for the NFL, seeing as Rogers has no interest in them, and there is no other venue capable of hosting the NFL (nor anyone else that has expressed interest in the NFL up there) I'd say this is the end of that particular flirtation for the foreseeable future. Which is fine. Canada already has their own superior form of football.

[STL FANATIC]

Do you guys think that the NFL is terribly interested in a Toronto franchise?

I get that a local tycoon could always buy a team and bring it to his hometown, but it doesn't seem to be so attractive a market that the league itself is eager to get a team there.

But then, what else really is aside from Los Angeles?

I think Toronto is simply a good alternative of sorts. If a team moves, Toronto is a big market that doesn't already have a team and could presumably support one. There's not many of those right now. Toronto. San Antonio. Others? London is in a whole separate category.

I could see the NFL ONLY being willing to put a team there if the Bills were it or if the Bills moved elsewhere, though. My impression (I don't know for sure) is that a competing Toronto team would really hurt the Bills.

[IceCap]

Do you guys think that the NFL is terribly interested in a Toronto franchise?

I get that a local tycoon could always buy a team and bring it to his hometown, but it doesn't seem to be so attractive a market that the league itself is eager to get a team there.

It seems to me that they were initially, hence the whole "Bills in Toronto" experiment.

The lukewarm reception the team's gotten, however, has probably soured the NFL to the whole enterprise. They couldn't even sell out the Rogers Centre, which is small by NFL standards. The stadium itself is also an issue. Even if they could manage to sell it out eight times a year for NFL football, it's still to small. Any Toronto-based NFL team would need a new stadium in the long run, and there's simply no will in Toronto to make it happen. The city's not interested in paying for another stadium. If such a stadium was ever going to be built it would have had to be privately financed, and the only group that seemed interested in doing that, Rogers, seems to have written the NFL in Toronto experiment off as a failure. Plus there's the tv rights to deal with. A team in Canada would throw a wrench into the NFL's current tv deals.

Simply put it's not happening. Especially not as long as LA remains teamless.

Do you guys think that the NFL is terribly interested in a Toronto franchise?

I get that a local tycoon could always buy a team and bring it to his hometown, but it doesn't seem to be so attractive a market that the league itself is eager to get a team there.

But then, what else really is aside from Los Angeles?

I think Toronto is simply a good alternative of sorts.

Why? Because the Rams are less likely to move there?

If a team moves, Toronto is a big market that doesn't already have a team and could presumably support one. There's not many of those right now.

See above. Lukewarm reception to NFL football, small stadium that they couldn't sell out, no will or money to build a bigger stadium.

There's not many of those right now. Toronto. San Antonio. Others?

Los Angeles.

I could see the NFL ONLY being willing to put a team there if the Bills were it or if the Bills moved elsewhere, though. My impression (I don't know for sure) is that a competing Toronto team would really hurt the Bills.

If the Bills in Toronto series proved anything it's that Toronto doesn't care about the Bills.

[Gothamite]

I'm not sure that I'd count San Antonio in the list of possible relocation cities, which seems now to be a list of... exactly one.

[STL FANATIC]

Do you guys think that the NFL is terribly interested in a Toronto franchise?

I get that a local tycoon could always buy a team and bring it to his hometown, but it doesn't seem to be so attractive a market that the league itself is eager to get a team there.

But then, what else really is aside from Los Angeles?

I think Toronto is simply a good alternative of sorts.

Why? Because the Rams are less likely to move there?

I think you totally misinterpreted the tone of my post. It had nothing to do with the Rams or LA. I was just noting that there's one major market left that basically the NFL must get into (LA). After that, Toronto is about as good as any.

By a good alternative of sorts I just meant if the NFL has to move another team (or I suppose a third team if two teams go to LA first), or if they really do expand. Obviously one team (and maybe two) go to LA, and then Toronto seems to be about as good as any market remaing. The NFL basically has all the markets cornered aside from LA.

LA needs a team, and can probably have two. But if the NFL has any further growth or movement, there's no obvious choices. But if you had to pick some, Toronto or San Antonio are probably at the top of the list.

That's why I said "aside from LA" in the first place. I was leaving it as a complete given that LA is a prime market. I was discussing how it's a significant drop off after that.

Does that make sense? The Rams weren't even on my mind when I wrote that, but I can now see how you'd take it in the other way (given my previous posts and affiliations). But I was just more discussing the NFL landscape as a whole.

[IceCap]

I still don't see Toronto as a viable NFL city. For reasons outlined above.

[Gothamite]

I was just noting that there's one major market left that basically the NFL must get into (LA). After that, Toronto is about as good as any.

I agree. Problem is, the "any" that they're as good as isn't all that good.

[CubsFanBudMan]

Sam Farmer of the LA Times was on Fox Sports radio the other night and he said he doesn't think the NFL is as serious about a return to Los Angeles as everyone assumes. He said there are flaws with both proposals and that if there was a deal to be made it would have been made. Farmer then said that he thinks it still will be 5-10 years before LA gets a team.

Just throwing a dissenting opinion out there. Haven't read if he's been writing what he's been saying, but I found it interesting coming from an LA guy.

[Gothamite]

In other news, today is the deadline for the Vikings to notify the NFL of any intention to relocate for 2012.

Reportedly, they have no plans to do so:

Team vice president Lester Bagley told The Associated Press that "there's no point" in filing such a notice. Bagley said the team has momentum with state lawmakers to build a new stadium that will replace the Metrodome.

The merry-go-round continues.