NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[Gothamite]

You'd be wrong.

[STL FANATIC]

I don't really think it's a bad sign.

This is Silent Stan we're talking about. He keeps his business under wraps. Whatever it takes to gain leverage.

If he gets really standoffish, then maybe I'll read into it, but not yet.

[Gothamite]

I'll take your word for it.

In any case, it would seem that Missouri state law requires public disclosure, as it ought to.

[STL FANATIC]

I'm not asking you to take my word for anything. I don't know anything. I'm just choosing to avoid reading into an action that vague, but I'm not telling you not to.

It turns out the CVC made another proposal to the Rams that was rejected. A much simpler one. Cut the lease short by five years, to 2020, and in return waive the "first tier" clause.

If one wants to read into that, there's two opposite options.

(1) The Rams want out soon. 2014 soon. 2020 is 5-6 years too long, still.

(2) The Rams aren't trying to get out of this lease. They're legitimately committed to being in St. Louis and in the Dome, they just want a better experience, as the lease calls for.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/rams-submit-plan-for-dome-but-it-remains-out-of/article_5a1b946c-9340-11e1-998c-0019bb30f31a.html

[Gothamite]

Interesting, thanks.

[njmeadowlanders]

ST. PAUL, Minn. -- The drive to reach a Minnesota Vikings stadium deal has taken a step backward at the state Capitol.

Democratic Gov. Mark Dayton has sharply rebuked GOP lawmakers for not taking the stadium debate seriously amid word Republicans are working out a deal to authorize a roofless stadium.

The altered proposal surfaced Tuesday and drew a rushed press conference from Dayton, Democratic lawmakers and the mayor of Minneapolis. Each acknowledged a stadium without a roof would be cheaper but said it would defeat the intent of building a venue that could be used for more than just football.

Legislators have yet to vote on a much-scrutinized stadium plan that depends on a gambling expansion. Republicans who run the Legislature haven't committed to a vote on the $975 million proposal Dayton favors.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7878524/minnesota-vikings-stadium-drive-takes-step-back-capitol

[bosrs1]

Interesting. Wonder who are the LA frontrunners now out of the 5 teams in play. Will it be one of the teams making a lot of noise and may spectacularly fail at the stadium quest in the next few months in St. Louis and/or Minnesota. Or will it be one of the 3 teams not making much noise at all right now in Buffalo, Oakland and/or San Diego?

[DarkJourney]

We have had this which team or teams L.A. talk for almost 20 years now. I'm tired. All these stadiums plans are nice but come on.

[bosrs1]

We have had this which team or teams L.A. talk for almost 20 years now. I'm tired. All these stadiums plans are nice but come on.

Well you say come on, but there are options. Oakland has no real plans to build the Raiders a stadium and they do need one (and they've had no contact with the Niners in nearly a year regarding sharing). San Diego's stadium is stalled as is Buffalo's (and the latter will be on auction block before too long with a 90+ yr old owner).

[DarkJourney]

We have had this which team or teams L.A. talk for almost 20 years now. I'm tired. All these stadiums plans are nice but come on.

Well you say come on, but there are options. Oakland has no real plans to build the Raiders a stadium and they do need one (and they've had no contact with the Niners in nearly a year regarding sharing). San Diego's stadium is stalled as is Buffalo's (and the latter will be on auction block before too long with a 90+ yr old owner).

What I mean by stadium plans is L.A. stadium plans and all of this talk of NFL to L.A is just dragging. That's all. I would love to see L.A. have football again it's just a long process. I've lived in the Bay Area all of my life and you're right the Raiders are pretty much not getting a new stadium in Oakland and the possibility of sharing with the 49ers is dim.

[Gothamite]

This is the best time in 20 years to have this discussion.

Buffalo is out until Wilson dies. At that point, they become part of the conversation, but that could be a couple years away.

I'm very curious to see what happens next in Minneapolis. The NFL obviously wants to hang on to that market, or Goodell wouldn't have intervened. I can't picture him going to bat like that for the Chargers, Raiders or Rams.

The Rams and St. Louis now have six weeks to get a deal together or they go to (non-binding?) arbitration, the last step before they can move.

This is a very crucial time on the relocation front. The perfect time to be having this conversation.

[bosrs1]

This is the best time in 20 years to have this discussion.

Buffalo is out until Wilson dies. At that point, they become part of the conversation, but that could be a couple years away.

I'm very curious to see what happens next in Minneapolis. The NFL obviously wants to hang on to that market, or Goodell wouldn't have intervened. I can't picture him going to bat like that for the Chargers, Raiders or Rams.

The Rams and St. Louis now have six weeks to get a deal together or they go to (non-binding?) arbitration, the last step before they can move.

This is a very crucial time on the relocation front. The perfect time to be having this conversation.

Not so sure you're right about the Chargers. Goodell has already made initial overtures toward San Diego not unlike what he did initially in Minnesota. It's too good a Super Bowl market (better than LA) to just give up on and he knows it. He'd rather not lose San Diego (and of course get a new stadium there) if he can swing it. I'm sure the threat phase will happen eventually when it comes time for San Diego to be pushed along like Minnesota is currently. But I'll agree I don't see him going to bat for the Raiders and probably not for the Rams either, particularly since the Rams situation seems so convoluted and the Raiders don't really have anything to go to bat with considering their city is broke and unable to do squat to help them get a new stadium, the Raiders and to a lesser extent the Niners won't do what Goodell recommended which was sharing the 49ers stadium, and the Raiders themselves don't have the financial wherewithal to build a private stadium. LA may end up being their ONLY option to play in a stadium that's not half a century old.

[DaytonBlue]

I'm not asking you to take my word for anything. I don't know anything. I'm just choosing to avoid reading into an action that vague, but I'm not telling you not to.

It turns out the CVC made another proposal to the Rams that was rejected. A much simpler one. Cut the lease short by five years, to 2020, and in return waive the "first tier" clause.

If one wants to read into that, there's two opposite options.

(1) The Rams want out soon. 2014 soon. 2020 is 5-6 years too long, still.

(2) The Rams aren't trying to get out of this lease. They're legitimately committed to being in St. Louis and in the Dome, they just want a better experience, as the lease calls for.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/rams-submit-plan-for-dome-but-it-remains-out-of/article_5a1b946c-9340-11e1-998c-0019bb30f31a.html

With this info, it's like their mind is made up already.

[STL FANATIC]

I think Goodell will go to bat for all the markets mentioned to be honest. I'm pretty confident he will for St. Louis (he was integral in getting St. Louis a team).

I don't believe for a second he wants any of the markets gone. Bottom line, though, is that going to bat doesn't mean giving any city a break. We just saw what going to bat meant in Minnesota... It meant threatening them to get it done.

I suspect if he could get new stadiums (or the right renovations) built in all the markets discussed, he'd much prefer that, and I expect he'll try. It's unlikely those efforts will be successful in each city, though, and ultimately he'll get his other wish, which is a team in LA.

Again, it's not like Goodell softened the expectations for Minnesota any. He in fact laid them out pretty strictly and said they need to be met or they have other options. Of course his primary intent is to get those plans done in Minnesota, but he's not giving them any breaks. I think it will be the same for the others.

[Gothamite]

I never meant to imply that Goodell was cutting anybody a break. Far from it; it was the heaviest-handed technique we've seen yet.

But that was the first time he had personally intervened in stadium talks, and I am not at all convinced that will be the new normal (that kind of personal muscle only becomes diminished through use).

[CubsFanBudMan]

The Minnesota visit certainly prompted some action, but if the result has gone from Arden Hills suburban complex, to backup plan near the church, to "oh let's just rebuild the Metrodome," to "we only have money for an open air stadium," I'd be worried at what a rushed-through deal ends up looking like.

How long before a field near the Mall of America with a couple sets of nice bleachers is the best they can do? These negotiations seem to be going the wrong way for the Vikings and I'm not sure they're going to like what they end up with any more than the Rams liked the CVC proposal. And where does that leave you in another 20-30 years (assuming there's no opt-out)?

[OnWis97]

I never meant to imply that Goodell was cutting anybody a break. Far from it; it was the heaviest-handed technique we've seen yet.

But that was the first time he had personally intervened in stadium talks, and I am not at all convinced that will be the new normal (that kind of personal muscle only becomes diminished through use).

I tend to agree with your premise that the league wants the Vikings to stay in Minnesota. I don't exactly know why. Is it just the long-term rivalries of the NFC North? They've been together (with the Bucs for a while) for 50 years, but the Vikings are the least significant of those four teams.

But yeah, he was there almost out of desperation. He was there to threaten, not cut 'em slack. Why's it not working? Simply put, the people don't want it, and that's cutting the political will. In order to get it done, they'll have to blatently step around laws that require a public referendum (which nobody thinks would have a chance of passing). So now we're looking to go all Target Field on it...open air to cut the cost. Won't go for a billion dollars? Maybe $600 million is the way. If you spend your Twin Cities days listening to sports radio, then it seems like a lot of people want this to happen...but in no other forum will you find much besides disdain for the league's arrogant demands and the notion of paying for most of a billion dollar stadium in bad economic times. In order for this to happen, some politicians are going to have to do a little spitting in the face of their constituents (but fear not, nobody ever gets voted out for this stuff).

It's not looking good (if you feel that "good" is getting a stadium deal done), but somehow (like after a long battle for the twins), these things seem to find a way to get done; and that's what the haters (pessimistically) and the lovers (optimistically) seem to think.

[TheOldRoman]

I tend to agree with your premise that the league wants the Vikings to stay in Minnesota. I don't exactly know why. Is it just the long-term rivalries of the NFC North? They've been together (with the Bucs for a while) for 50 years, but the Vikings are the least significant of those four teams.

But yeah, he was there almost out of desperation. He was there to threaten, not cut 'em slack. Why's it not working? Simply put, the people don't want it, and that's cutting the political will. In order to get it done, they'll have to blatently step around laws that require a public referendum (which nobody thinks would have a chance of passing). So now we're looking to go all Target Field on it...open air to cut the cost. Won't go for a billion dollars? Maybe $600 million is the way. If you spend your Twin Cities days listening to sports radio, then it seems like a lot of people want this to happen...but in no other forum will you find much besides disdain for the league's arrogant demands and the notion of paying for most of a billion dollar stadium in bad economic times. In order for this to happen, some politicians are going to have to do a little spitting in the face of their constituents (but fear not, nobody ever gets voted out for this stuff).

It's not looking good (if you feel that "good" is getting a stadium deal done), but somehow (like after a long battle for the twins), these things seem to find a way to get done; and that's what the haters (pessimistically) and the lovers (optimistically) seem to think.

That might be a part of it, but I think the biggest thing is that they really don't want to waste Los Angeles on the Vikings. Minnesota has shown that it is a good market which can feverishly support a team. Only two teams can move to LA, and it would be really short-sighted if the league scorched the earth in Minnesota while leaving teams for dead in St. Louis and Jacksonville. While Goddell isn't going to allow a team to put together a privately-financed stadium, I think he is going to bend a lot more to keep the Vikings in Minnesota than he would eslewhere.

[Gothamite]

I think the biggest thing is that they really don't want to waste Los Angeles on the Vikings. Minnesota has shown that it is a good market which can feverishly support a team. Only two teams can move to LA, and it would be really short-sighted if the league scorched the earth in Minnesota while leaving teams for dead in St. Louis and Jacksonville.

I think you might be right there.

[STL FANATIC]

I think the biggest thing is that they really don't want to waste Los Angeles on the Vikings. Minnesota has shown that it is a good market which can feverishly support a team. Only two teams can move to LA, and it would be really short-sighted if the league scorched the earth in Minnesota while leaving teams for dead in St. Louis and Jacksonville.

I think you might be right there.

The Rams staying in St. Louis would be "leaving a team for dead"?

I don't think anybody who matters believes that one.