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NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay


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But what if there just aren't enough exorbitantly wealthy Raiders fans to buy expensive tickets? You can't raise prices above what you know your market will bear and just expect some other consumers to appear from the ether to buy them up instead. This is part of why the Devils are in such a mess: they were able to operate healthily with affordable tickets in a dumpy building, but when they built a new place and jacked up the prices, there was no one there to pay those prices, and now the team is so deep in debt that they too have to be seized by the league to keep them out of bankruptcy. And who in his heart of hearts wants to see Raiders games turned into some intimate wine-and-cheese affair, anyway? They're never going to be anything other than what they are. Leave them be.

Difference is, in LA there's a ton of wealthy and middle class people who will pick up the slack and buy the tickets because it'll be the trendy/fashionable thing to do this year. Remember this is Los Angeles, not Newark, New Jersey we're talking about. LA alone (not even counting the county or region has 18x the population of Newark and an average income among those 18x people of $23,000 a year more. I wouldn't worry about them finding people to take the seats of all of the thugs and gang bangers who used to go to games at the Coliseum. LA is one of those markets where it's going to be very hard to price out the market. And frankly I think the NFL wouldn't mind seeing the edge taken off the Raiders and have their image rehabilitated back to some semblance of respectability.

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But what if there just aren't enough exorbitantly wealthy Raiders fans to buy expensive tickets? You can't raise prices above what you know your market will bear and just expect some other consumers to appear from the ether to buy them up instead. This is part of why the Devils are in such a mess: they were able to operate healthily with affordable tickets in a dumpy building, but when they built a new place and jacked up the prices, there was no one there to pay those prices, and now the team is so deep in debt that they too have to be seized by the league to keep them out of bankruptcy. And who in his heart of hearts wants to see Raiders games turned into some intimate wine-and-cheese affair, anyway? They're never going to be anything other than what they are. Leave them be.

Difference is, in LA there's a ton of wealthy and middle class people who will pick up the slack and buy the tickets because it'll be the trendy/fashionable thing to do this year. Remember this is Los Angeles, not Newark, New Jersey we're talking about. LA alone (not even counting the county or region has 18x the population of Newark and an average income among those 18x people of $23,000 a year more. I wouldn't worry about them finding people to take the seats of all of the thugs and gang bangers who used to go to games at the Coliseum. LA is one of those markets where it's going to be very hard to price out the market. And frankly I think the NFL wouldn't mind seeing the edge taken off the Raiders and have their image rehabilitated back to some semblance of respectability.

Exactly. Isn't the idea of bringing a team to LA that it will be supported regardless of whether it has a history in the area? Yes the Rams and Chargers (and Raiders...) have a history there, but I never thought the suggestion has been that they NEED one of their old teams back to support football, it's that they are fully capable of supporting two franchises no matter what.

So it shouldn't matter whether old Raiders fans can afford tickets or not because supposedly there are going to be football fans in LA who will pay to see the games anyways.

And if that's not true, then the idea that two (or perhaps even one) football teams will be a rousing success in LA also isn't true.

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Yeah, I'm not seeing "history in LA" as a major prerequisite for the team(s) relocating there.

The only way I think that makes any difference is if one team moves immediately and the Rams or Raiders move in a few years later. Then the history could help offset the other team's head start in building a fanbase. But other than that, the Jaguars (just to name one) would have just as good a shot as succeeding in LA as the Raiders or Rams.

It is interesting, though, that the three teams most likely to move to LA have some history there. If anybody in LA remembers the Chargers.

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Tarps for the Dolphins

This is a league problem. Not a Jax problem. Jax is ok when compared to other teams. *cough*Bengals*cough*

Except Miami since said the tarps aren't happening.

The fact it was considered is still telling. Do you think attendance isn't a league issue?

In a way it is, but at the same time most other attendance issues appear to be a consequence of HDTV, the Red Zone Network's dramatic success, and the continuing crap economy. The Jags attendance blew BEFORE all of that happened. There's the difference.

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Tarps for the Dolphins

This is a league problem. Not a Jax problem. Jax is ok when compared to other teams. *cough*Bengals*cough*

Except Miami since said the tarps aren't happening.

Jax also seen years of success. We arent on the bottom. Dont forget that.

The fact it was considered is still telling. Do you think attendance isn't a league issue?

In a way it is, but at the same time most other attendance issues appear to be a consequence of HDTV, the Red Zone Network's dramatic success, and the continuing crap economy. The Jags attendance blew BEFORE all of that happened. There's the difference.

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The Dolphins are also coming off a series of sub-.500 seasons, and have exactly one winning season in the last six years. The Jaguars couldn't sell out games when they were in the playoff hunt. There's the difference.

I have a great deal of sympathy for fanbases with terrible teams. I understand some degree of empty seats there. But when those teams are good, at least competing-for-the-playoffs good, then it's hard to sustain. I'm thinking Tampa Bay Rays/Phoenix Coyotes and, unfortunately, the Jacksonville Jaguars.

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Funny, I dont remember a blackout.

Goth strikes again . Capn bandwagon. Biggest liar of this thread.Jax isnt moving and it kills you inside. Cant bandwagon them either. From NY and a Packers fan? Joke like the rest of them.

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The Dolphins are also coming off a series of sub-.500 seasons, and have exactly one winning season in the last six years. The Jaguars couldn't sell out games when they were in the playoff hunt. There's the difference.

I have a great deal of sympathy for fanbases with terrible teams. I understand some degree of empty seats there. But when those teams are good, at least competing-for-the-playoffs good, then it's hard to sustain. I'm thinking Tampa Bay Rays/Phoenix Coyotes and, unfortunately, the Jacksonville Jaguars.

I was in south Florida in January of 2001 when the East Champion Dolphins hosted Indy in a wild card game. The problem was, you couldn't watch it there, because they didn't sell out a freaking playoff game. It's not just a string of losing seasons, it's that they just don't have people flocking to come see them--not now, and not then either.

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Then they deserve all the derision we can heap upon them. Maybe it's as bad a football market as it is baseball.

Goth strikes again . Capn bandwagon. Biggest liar of this thread.Jax isnt moving and it kills you inside. Cant bandwagon them either. From NY and a Packers fan? Joke like the rest of them.

see, when you have to resort to namecalling, you're admitting that you lack a substantive argument. Doesn't do you much credit.

And when you then do something silly like accuse a Brewer fan of being a bandwaggoner (not to mention someone who followed the Packers through the 1970s and 80s), you look doubly bad.

I'm happy to debate your points on their merits, if they have any. But I would ask for just a little politeness in return. If you believe in your argument, you owe that to yourself.

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Then they deserve all the derision we can heap upon them. Maybe it's as bad a football market as it is baseball.

Goth strikes again . Capn bandwagon. Biggest liar of this thread.Jax isnt moving and it kills you inside. Cant bandwagon them either. From NY and a Packers fan? Joke like the rest of them.

see, when you have to resort to namecalling, you're admitting that you lack a substantive argument. Doesn't do you much credit.

And when you then do something silly like accuse a Brewer fan of being a bandwaggoner (not to mention someone who followed the Packers through the 1970s and 80s), you look doubly bad.

I'm happy to debate your points on their merits, if they have any. But I would ask for just a little politeness in return. If you believe in your argument, you owe that to yourself.

Thank goodness we have you around, or how else could we decide which cities are worthy to have a team? :P

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When you think of the number of teams that have waiting lists for season tickets, or at least sell out every game via individual-game sales, it's hard to think that attendance is a league problem. As was said earlier, I understand losing teams in non-traditional-football crazy markets and even cities with bad stadiums (nobody in their right mind would consider Philadelphia anything other than a top-tier market, yet they had a blackout in 1999 coming off of a 3-13 season in a (literally) falling-apart Veterans Stadium), but I think what we're seeing is that there are some markets that simply aren't "major league" markets, and part of that is probably tied to how volatile their economy is (you have to expect that there will be lean times along with the prosperous times, but if you rely on cities who can't sustain themselves during the lean times, you're asking for trouble.)

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Americans love their sports teams too much to ever give them up entirely.

I think if the choice came down to buying food v. a sports-related purchase with their last dollar, most Americans would at least ask for extra time before having to make a decision. :P

And the NHL is its own entity. You really can't extrapolate anything from it. OITGDNHL.

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