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NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

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How? Jacksonville's average attendance has been worse than San Diego's for four straight years.

Chargers want a new stadium, ones not being built in the San Diego area and LA is just up the coast, with potentially an ideal downtown stadium in the works in the heart of the Southern Cal market of which they are the only team. Its the easiest move of any of the teams mentioned. They're basically stayin in-market so they won't have to acquire a new fanbase as they're essentially the closest thing to a "LA team" at the moment. Not to mention I think its somewhat apparent that LA thinks of them as their first choice. Their basically like the Vikings in that their move would be due to facilities and not due to lack of fan support.

Yup. And neither the Vikings nor Chargers (nor, IIRC, for that matter the Raiders) would have any outstanding lease issues at their current stadium if they were to leave after 2011. So in all likelihood, those teams will get the first bites at LA's apple. Timing, as they say, is everything.

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I too doubt LA will be vacant in 2016, but I don't see them having an NFC team by then.

Not necessarily. The Vikings stadium is literally falling apart and they're done with their lease after next season (assuming there is a season) and not much going on right now about them getting a new stadium. And if the Jaguars were to head to LA, they could very well switch conferences.

I know the Rams are on the list, but there are 3 teams that have better chances of moving before the Rams are even able too, yet some act like they're the only possibility. And I know people think I'm being a homer but if you look at the legitimate issues with each team, they are not at the top, and it seems that all those who think it'll be the Rams always say them just cuz its who they want.

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I too doubt LA will be vacant in 2016, but I don't see them having an NFC team by then.

Not necessarily. The Vikings stadium is literally falling apart and they're done with their lease after next season (assuming there is a season) and not much going on right now about them getting a new stadium. And if the Jaguars were to head to LA, they could very well switch conferences.

I know the Rams are on the list, but there are 3 teams that have better chances of moving before the Rams are even able too, yet some act like they're the only possibility. And I know people think I'm being a homer but if you look at the legitimate issues with each team, they are not at the top, and it seems that all those who think it'll be the Rams always say them just cuz its who they want.

Except if you paid attention, Minnesota is moving on the new local stadium.

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Exactly. I think Minnesota might finally be getting its act together.

I know the Rams are on the list, but there are 3 teams that have better chances of moving before the Rams are even able too, yet some act like they're the only possibility.

I don't think that's your strongest argument, since the Jags have even more time left on their lease than the Rams do on theirs.

But again, as far as the Rams-to-LA is concerned, it's about NFC teams. The Jags in a conference switch? Really? Who gets forced from the NFC over to the AFC?

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We went over that. If you look at the divisions it's easy to see geographically, but I won't repeat it here for fear of derailing into realignment territory as I did earlier.

I don't think the NFL is as worried about NFC/AFC as, say, MLB is with their leagues.

A question I do have for you based on your Rams theory: don't you think the NFL would like to return two teams at the same time, rather than give one the advantage over the other? I suppose if we're talking Rams or Raiders as the second team there might already be a fanbase, but it seems like whoever got there first would have the bandwagon fan advantage, season ticket sales advantage, etc. Who's going to jump from the Chargers to the Vikings after a couple years, or say, "I'll hold off and see if the second team we get is who I want to root for."?

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As far as conference switching goes, I'd think that market size has at least as much (probably more) to do with the decision as geographic location does (though the two are somewhat connected.) Since they sell packages to the networks based on conferences, if a team (Jags for example) went to the NFC, they'd have to find a team of similar market size to put in the AFC so as not to favor either of the networks.

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As far as conference switching goes, I'd think that market size has at least as much (probably more) to do with the decision as geographic location does (though the two are somewhat connected.) Since they sell packages to the networks based on conferences, if a team (Jags for example) went to the NFC, they'd have to find a team of similar market size to put in the AFC so as not to favor either of the networks.

Exactly, and that's why, the more I think about it, the more I realize Jacksonville would only replace the Rams if St. Louis lost their team. Most likely, it will be only one team that relocates. Plus, my previous claims were only assumptions on relocations prior to 2016. If the Jaguars moved to Los Angeles and didn't switch conferences, that would most likely move Kansas City to the AFC South, while they would enter the AFC West. If they did relocate and switch conferences - who would they switch conferences with, and what team would leave the NFC West and move to another division, that would certainly trigger a few divisional moves to keep rivalries and geography intact.

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As far as conference switching goes, I'd think that market size has at least as much (probably more) to do with the decision as geographic location does (though the two are somewhat connected.) Since they sell packages to the networks based on conferences, if a team (Jags for example) went to the NFC, they'd have to find a team of similar market size to put in the AFC so as not to favor either of the networks.

Exactly, and that's why, the more I think about it, the more I realize Jacksonville would only replace the Rams if St. Louis lost their team. Most likely, it will be only one team that relocates. Plus, my previous claims were only assumptions on relocations prior to 2016. If the Jaguars moved to Los Angeles and didn't switch conferences, that would most likely move Kansas City to the AFC South, while they would enter the AFC West. If they did relocate and switch conferences - who would they switch conferences with, and what team would leave the NFC West and move to another division, that would certainly trigger a few divisional moves to keep rivalries and geography intact.

Are you basing this on the Jaguars being the ONLY team to move to LA? Cuz then no one would have to switch conferences. If it were the Chargers AND the Jaguars going to LA, one (most likely the Jags) would have to switch. They're not gonna have 2 teams in the same city in the same league (unless there were 3, which isn't gonna happen). At which point I and others say the Rams to the AFC South (which I do like) or the Panthers seem to be the other favorite swapping conferences with the Rams replacing them in the NFC South. If its the Vikings as the other LA team (no matter if the other is the Chargers or Jags) then the Rams would most likely go to the NFC North. With the Chiefs and Rams being the most eastern teams in the West divisions, if a division swap is necessary, its gonna end up being one of them.

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As far as conference switching goes, I'd think that market size has at least as much (probably more) to do with the decision as geographic location does (though the two are somewhat connected.) Since they sell packages to the networks based on conferences, if a team (Jags for example) went to the NFC, they'd have to find a team of similar market size to put in the AFC so as not to favor either of the networks.

Exactly, and that's why, the more I think about it, the more I realize Jacksonville would only replace the Rams if St. Louis lost their team. Most likely, it will be only one team that relocates. Plus, my previous claims were only assumptions on relocations prior to 2016. If the Jaguars moved to Los Angeles and didn't switch conferences, that would most likely move Kansas City to the AFC South, while they would enter the AFC West. If they did relocate and switch conferences - who would they switch conferences with, and what team would leave the NFC West and move to another division, that would certainly trigger a few divisional moves to keep rivalries and geography intact.

Are you basing this on the Jaguars being the ONLY team to move to LA? Cuz then no one would have to switch conferences. If it were the Chargers AND the Jaguars going to LA, one (most likely the Jags) would have to switch. They're not gonna have 2 teams in the same city in the same league (unless there were 3, which isn't gonna happen). At which point I and others say the Rams to the AFC South (which I do like) or the Panthers seem to be the other favorite swapping conferences with the Rams replacing them in the NFC South. If its the Vikings as the end LA team (no matter if the other is the Chargers or Jags) then the Rams would most likely go to the NFC North. With the Chiefs and Rams being the most eastern teams in the West divisions, if a division swap is necessary, its gonna end up being one of them.

If only one team moved to LA, then another team likely would have to move conferences, because now that AFC TV deal is worth so much more than it was. FOX would demand that some big market AFC team gets moved to the NFC to balance it out. Just making things up here, but something like trading New England for St. Louis.

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As far as conference switching goes, I'd think that market size has at least as much (probably more) to do with the decision as geographic location does (though the two are somewhat connected.) Since they sell packages to the networks based on conferences, if a team (Jags for example) went to the NFC, they'd have to find a team of similar market size to put in the AFC so as not to favor either of the networks.

Exactly, and that's why, the more I think about it, the more I realize Jacksonville would only replace the Rams if St. Louis lost their team. Most likely, it will be only one team that relocates. Plus, my previous claims were only assumptions on relocations prior to 2016. If the Jaguars moved to Los Angeles and didn't switch conferences, that would most likely move Kansas City to the AFC South, while they would enter the AFC West. If they did relocate and switch conferences - who would they switch conferences with, and what team would leave the NFC West and move to another division, that would certainly trigger a few divisional moves to keep rivalries and geography intact.

Are you basing this on the Jaguars being the ONLY team to move to LA? Cuz then no one would have to switch conferences. If it were the Chargers AND the Jaguars going to LA, one (most likely the Jags) would have to switch. They're not gonna have 2 teams in the same city in the same league (unless there were 3, which isn't gonna happen). At which point I and others say the Rams to the AFC South (which I do like) or the Panthers seem to be the other favorite swapping conferences with the Rams replacing them in the NFC South. If its the Vikings as the end LA team (no matter if the other is the Chargers or Jags) then the Rams would most likely go to the NFC North. With the Chiefs and Rams being the most eastern teams in the West divisions, if a division swap is necessary, its gonna end up being one of them.

If only one team moved to LA, then another team likely would have to move conferences, because now that AFC TV deal is worth so much more than it was. FOX would demand that some big market AFC team gets moved to the NFC to balance it out. Just making things up here, but something like trading New England for St. Louis.

First off, I think you guys are giving the tv networks wa-hay too much authority in the NFL here, but even if it were so, with one team, no one has to switch conferences. Here's each possibilty and why:

Chargers - Obviously, they wouldn't even have to switch divisions.

Jaguars, Vikings and Rams - Would all be able to stay in their conferences without forcing anybody else to move other than divisions.

Fox can't make the NFL switch teams.

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As far as conference switching goes, I'd think that market size has at least as much (probably more) to do with the decision as geographic location does (though the two are somewhat connected.) Since they sell packages to the networks based on conferences, if a team (Jags for example) went to the NFC, they'd have to find a team of similar market size to put in the AFC so as not to favor either of the networks.

Exactly, and that's why, the more I think about it, the more I realize Jacksonville would only replace the Rams if St. Louis lost their team. Most likely, it will be only one team that relocates. Plus, my previous claims were only assumptions on relocations prior to 2016. If the Jaguars moved to Los Angeles and didn't switch conferences, that would most likely move Kansas City to the AFC South, while they would enter the AFC West. If they did relocate and switch conferences - who would they switch conferences with, and what team would leave the NFC West and move to another division, that would certainly trigger a few divisional moves to keep rivalries and geography intact.

Are you basing this on the Jaguars being the ONLY team to move to LA? Cuz then no one would have to switch conferences. If it were the Chargers AND the Jaguars going to LA, one (most likely the Jags) would have to switch. They're not gonna have 2 teams in the same city in the same league (unless there were 3, which isn't gonna happen). At which point I and others say the Rams to the AFC South (which I do like) or the Panthers seem to be the other favorite swapping conferences with the Rams replacing them in the NFC South. If its the Vikings as the end LA team (no matter if the other is the Chargers or Jags) then the Rams would most likely go to the NFC North. With the Chiefs and Rams being the most eastern teams in the West divisions, if a division swap is necessary, its gonna end up being one of them.

If only one team moved to LA, then another team likely would have to move conferences, because now that AFC TV deal is worth so much more than it was. FOX would demand that some big market AFC team gets moved to the NFC to balance it out. Just making things up here, but something like trading New England for St. Louis.

First off, I think you guys are giving the tv networks wa-hay too much authority in the NFL here, but even if it were so, with one team, no one has to switch conferences. Here's each possibilty and why:

Chargers - Obviously, they wouldn't even have to switch divisions.

Jaguars, Vikings and Rams - Would all be able to stay in their conferences without forcing anybody else to move other than divisions.

Fox can't make the NFL switch teams.

Fox certainly can make the NFL switch teams. If not by strongarming them during the current agreement, by lowering their bid during the next one. IIRC, the AFC and NFC packages cost the same (I could be wrong though, correct me if I am.) All of a sudden, the AFC package is worth a lot more, so why would Fox pay the same as CBS for a less valuable package? I'm not sure if the NFL sets the price and the networks buy it, or if it's a bidding system, but either way, the NFL would either have to make concessions to lower the price of the NFC package (or at least not raise it like the AFC one would have to be raised) or be ready to accept a lower bid for it.

When we're talking about billion-dollar packages, the networks certainly do (and should) have a ton of power. Hell - they can move game times already. So the league would either have to cater to them, or change it's rights structure a bit.

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Exactly. I think Minnesota might finally be getting its act together.

I know the Rams are on the list, but there are 3 teams that have better chances of moving before the Rams are even able too, yet some act like they're the only possibility.

I don't think that's your strongest argument, since the Jags have even more time left on their lease than the Rams do on theirs.

But again, as far as the Rams-to-LA is concerned, it's about NFC teams. The Jags in a conference switch? Really? Who gets forced from the NFC over to the AFC?

titans

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San Diego Chargers ---> Los Angeles Chargers

St. Louis Rams ---> Los Angeles Rams (lesser possibility, but they want two teams it would only make sense)

Ideally, this is what I'd like to see happen. Although it gives LA two teams with very similar color schemes. Maybe to help aleviate this, the Chargers could switch to their powder blues full time (which is what they wore in 1960 when they played in LA) and the Rams could go back to the "classic" look they wore in Anaheim.

Minnesota Vikings ---> Los Angeles Aztecs/Marauders/etc. (possible, but I have a feeling that it will get worked out)

I'm still holding out hope that Chivas USA decides to adopt the old LA Aztecs identity from the NASL, but I love the name LA Marauders. It alludes to the franchises history as the Vikings (which they'd no doubt have to cough up now that the precedent has been set), but gives LA its own identity. But man, would Al Davis have a field day with that one.

Jacksonville Jaguars ---> St. Louis Bombers (ode to the Greatest Show on Turf)

Somehow I don't see any teams looking that hard at St. Louis with San Diego as an available option, and with two teams in LA, the Chargers claim to San Diego as "theirs" would be tenuous at best.

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I think Fox pays a little more than CBS for their package. Maybe like $50 million more per season, I think I read. `

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Exactly. I think Minnesota might finally be getting its act together.

I know the Rams are on the list, but there are 3 teams that have better chances of moving before the Rams are even able too, yet some act like they're the only possibility.

I don't think that's your strongest argument, since the Jags have even more time left on their lease than the Rams do on theirs.

But again, as far as the Rams-to-LA is concerned, it's about NFC teams. The Jags in a conference switch? Really? Who gets forced from the NFC over to the AFC?

titans

Are an AFC team. Thanks for playing. We have some lovely parting gifts. Tell the man what he's won Johnson.

NOTHING!

-------------------------------------------------------

I nominate Seattle for getting kicked out of the NFC.

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As far as conference switching goes, I'd think that market size has at least as much (probably more) to do with the decision as geographic location does (though the two are somewhat connected.) Since they sell packages to the networks based on conferences, if a team (Jags for example) went to the NFC, they'd have to find a team of similar market size to put in the AFC so as not to favor either of the networks.

Exactly, and that's why, the more I think about it, the more I realize Jacksonville would only replace the Rams if St. Louis lost their team. Most likely, it will be only one team that relocates. Plus, my previous claims were only assumptions on relocations prior to 2016. If the Jaguars moved to Los Angeles and didn't switch conferences, that would most likely move Kansas City to the AFC South, while they would enter the AFC West. If they did relocate and switch conferences - who would they switch conferences with, and what team would leave the NFC West and move to another division, that would certainly trigger a few divisional moves to keep rivalries and geography intact.

Are you basing this on the Jaguars being the ONLY team to move to LA? Cuz then no one would have to switch conferences. If it were the Chargers AND the Jaguars going to LA, one (most likely the Jags) would have to switch. They're not gonna have 2 teams in the same city in the same league (unless there were 3, which isn't gonna happen). At which point I and others say the Rams to the AFC South (which I do like) or the Panthers seem to be the other favorite swapping conferences with the Rams replacing them in the NFC South. If its the Vikings as the end LA team (no matter if the other is the Chargers or Jags) then the Rams would most likely go to the NFC North. With the Chiefs and Rams being the most eastern teams in the West divisions, if a division swap is necessary, its gonna end up being one of them.

If only one team moved to LA, then another team likely would have to move conferences, because now that AFC TV deal is worth so much more than it was. FOX would demand that some big market AFC team gets moved to the NFC to balance it out. Just making things up here, but something like trading New England for St. Louis.

First off, I think you guys are giving the tv networks wa-hay too much authority in the NFL here, but even if it were so, with one team, no one has to switch conferences. Here's each possibilty and why:

Chargers - Obviously, they wouldn't even have to switch divisions.

Jaguars, Vikings and Rams - Would all be able to stay in their conferences without forcing anybody else to move other than divisions.

Fox can't make the NFL switch teams.

Additionally, the NFC has the more attractive package to begin with-they get Chicago, Philly, Washington, and Dallas all to themselves. If anything two LA AFC teams would balance the package out.

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Additionally, the NFC has the more attractive package to begin with-they get Chicago, Philly, Washington, and Dallas all to themselves. If anything two LA AFC teams would balance the package out.

And despite it's small market, Green Bay was involved in the #1 and #5 most watched games of the year. They're usually a good national draw.

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So, as we do play franchise musical chairs...I have a question regarding the Vikings (and more specifically the Vikings identity)

Supposing the Vikings leave, but Minnesota gets the "Sonics Plan" and a year or two down the road a team *cough*Rams*cough* moves up to a suitably chastened Twin Cities with a new stadium.

Does the moving team have to resurrect the Vikings identity, or can they keep their own identity and say to heck with the Vikings name?

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As far as conference switching goes, I'd think that market size has at least as much (probably more) to do with the decision as geographic location does (though the two are somewhat connected.) Since they sell packages to the networks based on conferences, if a team (Jags for example) went to the NFC, they'd have to find a team of similar market size to put in the AFC so as not to favor either of the networks.

Exactly, and that's why, the more I think about it, the more I realize Jacksonville would only replace the Rams if St. Louis lost their team. Most likely, it will be only one team that relocates. Plus, my previous claims were only assumptions on relocations prior to 2016. If the Jaguars moved to Los Angeles and didn't switch conferences, that would most likely move Kansas City to the AFC South, while they would enter the AFC West. If they did relocate and switch conferences - who would they switch conferences with, and what team would leave the NFC West and move to another division, that would certainly trigger a few divisional moves to keep rivalries and geography intact.

Are you basing this on the Jaguars being the ONLY team to move to LA? Cuz then no one would have to switch conferences. If it were the Chargers AND the Jaguars going to LA, one (most likely the Jags) would have to switch. They're not gonna have 2 teams in the same city in the same league (unless there were 3, which isn't gonna happen). At which point I and others say the Rams to the AFC South (which I do like) or the Panthers seem to be the other favorite swapping conferences with the Rams replacing them in the NFC South. If its the Vikings as the other LA team (no matter if the other is the Chargers or Jags) then the Rams would most likely go to the NFC North. With the Chiefs and Rams being the most eastern teams in the West divisions, if a division swap is necessary, its gonna end up being one of them.

I'm speaking on how, the longer I've thought about it, Jacksonville doesn't seem as conducive to being a team to relocate as the others are (Chargers, Rams, and Vikings). Like you mentioned in your post, Jacksonville moving to Los Angeles would cause a whole bunch of realignment, and I don't want this thread turning into a dick-measuring contest on which realignment plan is the best. Jacksonville is better suited to be a team to replace a San Diego/St. Louis/or even Minneapolis-St. Paul football team - not move out to the west coast.

But thanks for the complement illwauk. I have a fictional team called the Minnesota Marauders, and they're an alternate version to the real-life franchise, so I figured it might work for Los Angeles. Especially if Minnesota keeps the identity of the Vikings as their own.

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