My alma mater (Illinois College) is considering changing mascot and nicknames due to pressure from women

[rams80]

And here I was thinking Illinois College was named after Carthage High School

[debo0775]

I don't think the mascot is necessarily* patronizing towards women. I think one of the downsides of modern feminism is that they look down on the housewife. Even with that aside, the women of the Civil War era weren't just ordinary housewives... they were the Rosie the Riveter of their day. With so many men fighting, they had to keep homes, farms, businesses, etc. running. Keeping things functioning away from the battlefields is/was incredibly important; that's why it's called the home front. Could they change the costume up a little bit to make it look less like 1860s Suzy Homemaker? Probably, but it's a group of people that's worthy of honor and shouldn't be looked down upon.

*They could do things with the mascot that would make it patronizing, but I don't have any problem with the idea.

I've just come to the opinion that any mascot that becomes Lady *derivative of Men's mascot* is patronizing. It just gives off a feel of "*pats on head* awww, look at you playing sports and such!" I think it's a relatively innocent form of patronizing, but (intended or not) the effect is there.

[IceCap]

I wouldn't say it's that cut and dry. Acadia University's teams are called the Axemen and Axewomen. Is "Axewomen" patronizing? Axewomen could be seen as derivative of Axemen, but the reverse can also be said.

In a lot of these cases female athletic programs were relatively new additions. So schools with longstanding nicknames that included "men" saw "_____women" or "Lady ______" as an easy solution. What once was seen as a fine situation may now be seen as unacceptable. It happens, and it should probably be changed.

[debo0775]

I wouldn't say it's that cut and dry. Acadia University's teams are called the Axemen and Axewomen. Is "Axewomen" patronizing? Axewomen could be seen as derivative of Axemen, but the reverse can also be said.

In a lot of these cases female athletic programs were relatively new additions. So schools with longstanding nicknames that included "men" saw "_____women" or "Lady ______" as an easy solution. What once was seen as a fine situation may now be seen as unacceptable. It happens, and it should probably be changed.

I really don't seen an issue with Axewomen (though I do think the general idea of making a gender non-specific name into a gender-specific name is a bit silly).

To me, you keep exactly the same tone/intent if you called the women's squads "Illinois College Blues" (if they so chose not to adopt Blueboys across M/W sports). I was replying more to the notion of using "Lady" in front of any women's program (i.e. Lady Comets at my HS alma mater or Lady Vols in Tennessee).

It's certainly nitpicky and something that I can see a lot of people in disagreement over, but I think it's a somewhat unintentional form of sexism that's avoided if you just consider the nickname to be the same (or a non-gender specific derivative of) across sports.

[guest23]

Illinois Blue Ladyboys

[Cosmic]

I don't think the mascot is necessarily* patronizing towards women. I think one of the downsides of modern feminism is that they look down on the housewife. Even with that aside, the women of the Civil War era weren't just ordinary housewives... they were the Rosie the Riveter of their day. With so many men fighting, they had to keep homes, farms, businesses, etc. running. Keeping things functioning away from the battlefields is/was incredibly important; that's why it's called the home front. Could they change the costume up a little bit to make it look less like 1860s Suzy Homemaker? Probably, but it's a group of people that's worthy of honor and shouldn't be looked down upon.

*They could do things with the mascot that would make it patronizing, but I don't have any problem with the idea.

I've just come to the opinion that any mascot that becomes Lady *derivative of Men's mascot* is patronizing. It just gives off a feel of "*pats on head* awww, look at you playing sports and such!" I think it's a relatively innocent form of patronizing, but (intended or not) the effect is there.

My alma mater's women's teams are the Lady Bulls. I'm honestly not sure what to make of it. Is it better than the Cows?

[JayJaxon]

Let the students and alumni vote. This is better than allowing a small percentage to dictate what happens to the entire school.

[winters in buffalo]

I don't think the mascot is necessarily* patronizing towards women. I think one of the downsides of modern feminism is that they look down on the housewife. Even with that aside, the women of the Civil War era weren't just ordinary housewives... they were the Rosie the Riveter of their day. With so many men fighting, they had to keep homes, farms, businesses, etc. running. Keeping things functioning away from the battlefields is/was incredibly important; that's why it's called the home front. Could they change the costume up a little bit to make it look less like 1860s Suzy Homemaker? Probably, but it's a group of people that's worthy of honor and shouldn't be looked down upon.

*They could do things with the mascot that would make it patronizing, but I don't have any problem with the idea.

I've just come to the opinion that any mascot that becomes Lady *derivative of Men's mascot* is patronizing. It just gives off a feel of "*pats on head* awww, look at you playing sports and such!" I think it's a relatively innocent form of patronizing, but (intended or not) the effect is there.

My alma mater's women's teams are the Lady Bulls. I'm honestly not sure what to make of it. Is it better than the Cows?

"Cows" would be awesome. I remember their 20-year run as the "Royals," before all teams united under the Bulls nickname.

[Jamikel]

I stated in a previous post that I had no issue if they want to change the nickname and mascot for the women's teams. However, there's no reason to change the nickname and mascot for the men's teams.

Yes there is. Historical reference or no, Blueboys is an awful name.

Just call all your teams the Blues or Blue Jackets, keep the Civil War soldier mascot, and call it a day.

[Dexter Morgan]

Nothing like some good old misogyny to start the morning.

I could go into a semi-rant, but I won't. Instead, I'll leave you with a little advice. If you're telling women to go themselves (which you basically are) because they want to attend a school but not be represented by a patronizing mascot from a time when women basically had zero rights, then you're in the wrong.

Also, it's not like changing a name to be gender neutral is going to destroy the foundations of the school. Syracuse is doing okay.

Syracuse is doing okay ? I beg to differ, they were the Orangemen derived from the Irish and Scottish Protestant fraternal organization, now they are named after something you eat or a color, talk about throwing 100+ years of history down the toilet

Obviously you're not familiar with how offensive that organization is to Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland and U.S.

Syracuse absolutely made the right decision.

[MCM0313]

Illinois Blue Ladyboys

^This.

Also, I agree with an earlier poster that this appears to be treading dangerously close to the "Redskins"-type thing. This forum is about sports logos and uniforms, not politics.

[JasonFromMiami]

Nothing like some good old misogyny to start the morning.

I could go into a semi-rant, but I won't. Instead, I'll leave you with a little advice. If you're telling women to go themselves (which you basically are) because they want to attend a school but not be represented by a patronizing mascot from a time when women basically had zero rights, then you're in the wrong.

Also, it's not like changing a name to be gender neutral is going to destroy the foundations of the school. Syracuse is doing okay.

Syracuse is doing okay ? I beg to differ, they were the Orangemen derived from the Irish and Scottish Protestant fraternal organization, now they are named after something you eat or a color, talk about throwing 100+ years of history down the toilet

Obviously you're not familiar with how offensive that organization is to Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland and U.S.

Syracuse absolutely made the right decision.

Nike made them do it

.

.

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/index.ssf/2015/03/nike_the_company_that_convinced_syracuse_to_ditch_orangemen_nickname_is_at_it_ag.html

[BBTV]

Seems like from a business perspective, it makes sense to listen to the major donors - I'm assuming that's the alums - until those donations start to decrease.

If the current students want a change, then it would reason that as the alums die off, donations would decrease. Then it would make sense to change the name to try and boost funds from the new round of alums who may not have been donating due to the team name.

[dolfan13]

So I'm late to the conversation but what exactly is it that's being labelled as "patronizing"? The fact the women's teams are called by a different name? Someone please explain how that's patronizing because I just don't see it.

And what was a suggested solution? A non-gender-specific name? I believe Tennessee has a non-gender-specific name and they still use "Lady" in front of it. Are they patronizing too? Someone get Pat Summitt on the phone and tell her her employer was patronizing her during her storied career and she did nothing about it....

Yeah...it's a dumb argument. Can't say I'm surprised though, seeing as there's a lot of "fake feminism" going around these days.

[ltravisjr]

I always felt "lady" elevated and gave more dignity to the team that had the finer, less brutish gender competing. I didn't see it as patronizing, although attaching "Lady" it to a distinctively male name seemed like more an effort to just avoid having to give up an identity when women's teams came into the athletic program. I might be naive on all this though. Maybe nowadays calling out the female sex as being finer and worthy of unique respect (which I considered a compliment) is considered sexist. If so I will have to be more careful because respect does no good if it isn't perceived as respect.

[guest23]

So I'm late to the conversation but what exactly is it that's being labelled as "patronizing"? The fact the women's teams are called by a different name? Someone please explain how that's patronizing because I just don't see it.

And what was a suggested solution? A non-gender-specific name? I believe Tennessee has a non-gender-specific name and they still use "Lady" in front of it. Are they patronizing too? Someone get Pat Summitt on the phone and tell her her employer was patronizing her during her storied career and she did nothing about it....

Yeah...it's a dumb argument. Can't say I'm surprised though, seeing as there's a lot of "fake feminism" going around these days.

Oh do tell about all of this fake feminism you're encountering these days. I'd love to see some good for myself.

[dolfan13]

So I'm late to the conversation but what exactly is it that's being labelled as "patronizing"? The fact the women's teams are called by a different name? Someone please explain how that's patronizing because I just don't see it.

And what was a suggested solution? A non-gender-specific name? I believe Tennessee has a non-gender-specific name and they still use "Lady" in front of it. Are they patronizing too? Someone get Pat Summitt on the phone and tell her her employer was patronizing her during her storied career and she did nothing about it....

Yeah...it's a dumb argument. Can't say I'm surprised though, seeing as there's a lot of "fake feminism" going around these days.

Oh do tell about all of this fake feminism you're encountering these days. I'd love to see some good for myself.

Google is your friend.

https://www.google.com/#q=fake+feminism

Oh and for the record, I didn't say I was encountering it. Just that it's making the rounds.

[Gothamite]

A couple conservative sites discovering alliteration does not "making the rounds" constitute.

The women who attend and teach at the school are the ones who get to determine if they think it's patronizing. We don't get to tell them their opinions are wrong.

[illini1]

I'm not taking a side on the Fake Feminism argument, but a lot of the sites on the first page are definitely not conservative sites (Buzzfeed, Jezebel & The Guardian). The only conservative site on the first page that I'm aware of is the Daily Caller. There may be more, but I'm not familiar with some of the other sites.

[WavePunter]

Washburn University (my wife's alma mater) is the "Ichabods" and "Lady Blues".. She never had any issue with it as a PSA or SA, nor as an alumnus