Deflategate -- Patriots Busted

[Hat Boy]

Didn't read the whole thread...

Wouldn't a simple solution be for the NFL to just provide standardized game-balls that are out of the hands of either team?

Prior to this, that's what I figured the NFL did.

That is how things used to be, but a group of NFL quarterbacks, I believe led by Brady and Peyton Manning, talked to the league about how the league-provided balls were always too slick for their liking.

My own feeling is that the league granted teams permission to prepare their own game balls to help the QBs be more comfortable--which permits better passing, more yards, more points and all the other stuff that panders to more scoring, better TV ratings and fantasy football.

[WSU151]

Didn't read the whole thread...

Wouldn't a simple solution be for the NFL to just provide standardized game-balls that are out of the hands of either team?

Prior to this, that's what I figured the NFL did.

That is how things used to be, but a group of NFL quarterbacks, I believe led by Brady and Peyton Manning, talked to the league about how the league-provided balls were always too slick for their liking.

My own feeling is that the league granted teams permission to prepare their own game balls to help the QBs be more comfortable--which permits better passing, more yards, more points and all the other stuff that panders to more scoring, better TV ratings and fantasy football.

Plus, the official Wilson NFL football is a pretty miserable experience out of the box. The coating they put on them is good for collectors, bad for throwing.

You know the Pats have a long legacy of cheating anybody ever hear about this.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Peyton-Manning-thinks-the-Patriots-may-bug-visit?urn=nfl-287763

Never been proven. It was news 5 years ago because Patriots.

I like how NFL fans think every team except the Patriots is on the up-and-up. :censored:ing hilarious.

[The_Admiral]

I like how NFL fans think every team except the Patriots is on the up-and-up. :censored:ing hilarious.

No one thinks that. People think all NFL teams cheat while the Patriots cheat even more. God, Patriots fans are the pits.

[Hat Boy]

No one thinks that. People think all NFL teams cheat while the Patriots cheat even more.

Anyone who believes that is either fooling themselves or is just a fool.

God, Patriots fans are the pits.

Yes, there is a vocal group of Patriots fans that are insufferable.

[The_Admiral]

Fooling themselves for thinking the Patriots cheat even more than the rest of the cheaters? I think it's pretty clear that they do. The only question is whether all the trouble they get themselves in proves that they're better at it or worse at it.

[2001mark]

Fooling themselves for thinking the Patriots cheat even more than the rest of the cheaters? I think it's pretty clear that they do. The only question is whether all the trouble they get themselves in proves that they're better at it or worse at it.

It feels like a Tiger Woods caught at The Masters vibe.

[bosrs1]

Fooling themselves for thinking the Patriots cheat even more than the rest of the cheaters? I think it's pretty clear that they do. The only question is whether all the trouble they get themselves in proves that they're better at it or worse at it.

Don't think it's clear they cheat much more than everyone else at all. What is clear is that they've been the most consistently successful team for 15 years now, in direct opposition to the NFL's desired competitive balance. So they're under a ton more scrutiny than other teams.

[Gothamite]

Don't think it's clear they do at all.

To this impartial observer it is.

[Hat Boy]

Fooling themselves for thinking the Patriots cheat even more than the rest of the cheaters? I think it's pretty clear that they do.

This is off the top of my head, so there may be some stuff I am missing, but the Patriots (under the current ownership group) have been disciplined for Spygate and (probably will be) for deflating footballs.

The Jets--disciplined for tampering with players under contract with another team, failing to disclose injuries on the injury report, and a strength coach tripping a Dolphins player during a game.

Steelers--violating salary cap rules and a head coach who impeded an opponent on the field during a game.

Broncos--violating the salary cap x2.

Seahawks--violated off-season practice rules x2

So that totals to Patriots 2, Jets 3, Steelers 2, Broncos 2 and Seahawks 2. By that random sampling of my mind, it is more probable than not that the Patriots do not violate the rules any more/less than other NFL teams.

[alxy8s]

By that random sampling of my mind, it is more probable than not that the Patriots do not cheat any more/less than other NFL teams.

Well, case closed, then.

I did not care about this "scandal" at all, but Pats fans make wish there was a death penalty in the NFL.

[Hat Boy]

By that random sampling of my mind, it is more probable than not that the Patriots do not cheat any more/less than other NFL teams.

Well, case closed, then.

I did not care about this "scandal" at all, but Pats fans make wish there was a death penalty in the NFL.

I don't have the time or inclination to search the internet for any/all instances of teams violating NFL rules. If you'd care to prove that the Patriots are the dirtiest team in the League, be my guest.

[RyanB06]

yourteamcheats.com

There. Done.

[Brass]

TIL that possibly letting air out of some footballs in roughly on par, punishment wise, with beating your wife.

[The_Admiral]

Okay, if today is indeed National Make Crap Up Day, today I learned that the Patriots have never done anything wrong and everyone should aspire to do everything they do.

[BBTV]

Okay, if today is indeed National Make Crap Up Day, today I learned that the Patriots have never done anything wrong and everyone should aspire to do everything they do.

Well I secretly (and manually) drained my balls a few hours ago so I guess I'm already following this edict.

[The_Admiral]

^ Iconic post.

[monkeypower]

[Cosmic]

Fooling themselves for thinking the Patriots cheat even more than the rest of the cheaters? I think it's pretty clear that they do.

This is off the top of my head, so there may be some stuff I am missing, but the Patriots (under the current ownership group) have been disciplined for Spygate and (probably will be) for deflating footballs.

The Jets--disciplined for tampering with players under contract with another team, failing to disclose injuries on the injury report, and a strength coach tripping a Dolphins player during a game.

Messing with the injury report? Like how Brady was listed as "probable" with a shoulder injury for like five years in a row?

[Dexter Morgan]

It'll probably be a monetary fine & 1-2 draft picks.

There's no way anyone gets suspended for that.

you wanna bet?

[HedleyLamarr]

Fooling themselves for thinking the Patriots cheat even more than the rest of the cheaters? I think it's pretty clear that they do.

This is off the top of my head, so there may be some stuff I am missing, but the Patriots (under the current ownership group) have been disciplined for Spygate and (probably will be) for deflating footballs.

The Jets--disciplined for tampering with players under contract with another team, failing to disclose injuries on the injury report, and a strength coach tripping a Dolphins player during a game.

Messing with the injury report? Like how Brady was listed as "probable" with a shoulder injury for like five years in a row?

Yeah, if there's one team that's synonymous with screwing with the weekly injury reports, it's the Patriots.

If Brady's innocent and has nothing to hide, how come he's refusing to fully cooperate with the investigation?

Thankfully, the NFL doesn't adhere to the "innocent til proven guilty" adage the courts use. If Goodell had a set, he and the NFL are talking to Brady and Kraft. Roger starts off by telling Brady "You're starting off with a 1-game suspension and $100,000 fine." and Kraft "Your fine begins with $1 million, a lost draft pick, and you forfeit your share of league revenues by a week.", and tells them "These punishments increase by these same values each time you fail to cooperate/confess/explain."

I don't think non-cooperation from Brady should be held against him, he has that right.

Why should Brady start out with a 1-game suspension and a $100,000 fine? The only previous cheating incident with the Patriots had nothing to do with Brady, and there is absolutely no proof that Brady ordered balls to be deflated under legal limits. Sure, the report says that it is more probable than not that Brady knew something, and he should therefore receive a fine. However, this would be a first offense for him, and there is evidence(the above paragraph) that says that it would not have been a longstanding cheating issue.

Why should Kraft receive a fine of $1 million, a lost draft pick, and a forfeiture of league revenue? Kraft was not only would this also be Kraft's first offense, he was exonerated in the report. Even if Brady orchestrated the whole thing, there is still literally zero evidence that Kraft had anything to do with this. Also, a lost draft pick would occur over a full year after the incident actually occurred.

Finally, you said that the punishments should increase until the Pats confess. What if the Pats didn't do it? Then they'd be continually punished in increasing amounts for something they didn't do. The organization should not be punished for doing something that either didn't happen or was done secretly by 3 people within the organization. Not only that, but the transgression is minor at worst, and it can easily be explained by forces outside of the Patriots control. The testing at halftime was the first time that had happened in NFL history, so there is nothing to compare it to. We simply do not know how the readings taken at the AFC Championship compare to what readings would be at other games. Finally, the entire thing could plausibly be explained by weather. The only source that has denied that weather could have had an effect is the same place that found that second-hand smoke can't cause cancer! Give Brady a small fine and get on to the season. If it weren't the Patriots in the cross hairs, this would be a non-issue.

Why should Brady start off with these punishments? First off, he's not fully cooperating with the third-party investigation. If he's innocent and has nothing to hide, he's cooperating. But he's not cooperating. Secondly, there looks to be more than enough circumstantial evidence that shows he had a hand in this. He had a grand opportunity to clear his name.

Why should Kraft start off with these punishments? He's the owner of the team that's now a repeat violator when it comes to prospective cheating. The onus is ultimately on him to clean up the organization. How do you motivate a team owner to change things? You strike him where it hurts: in the wallet, in his ego, and on the field. What good is suspending an owner from attending games, really? Fine him seven figures, take away his 1/32nd piece of the $9 billion pie, and take away their assets of building a competitive team. And, he now wears the Scarlet A for "constant cheater". He and Belichick, I believe, didn't have any part of deflating footballs. But there is a systematic problem within the organization....Kraft's organization....of breaking the NFL's rules for fair competition.

Plus, the league (and any sports league) can afford to "get it wrong" when it comes to off-field issues because they can justify that players can be knuckleheads. What no league wants a part of is "getting it wrong" or taking things lightly when it comes to on-field cheating because that raises the doubt that these games aren't pure. They'll do what it takes to not only punish those involved, but make sure it's a punishment that will deter anyone else from doing something like this in the future. So while it will give the appearance that deflating footballs is more of a crime than beating your wife to most folks, the fact is that the NFL does in fact care much more about the perception of their on-field product than they do about their players/owners doing dumb stuff off the field. The NFL's on-field integrity isn't being tarnished when it comes to child abuse or murders far from the football field.

But do note I mentioned "cooperate/confess/explain".