NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator

[TheOldRoman]

The Dodgers? Never heard that one.

Pretty sure Armour Square Park was a fan concept only, never seriously considered by anyone involved in the project.

The story goes that Reinsdorf had the seats colored "Dodger blue" because he grew up in Brooklyn a huge Dodgers fan, was in attendance for Jackie Robinson's first game, etc. First off, the seats weren't actually Dodger blue, but as far as I know that was just a rumor and there was no confirmation his picked the color to honor the Dodgers.

On the upper deck, as I said, it was no steeper than in other new parks. The biggest problems with it were 1) it was HUGE. I don't have the numbers anymore, but the percentage of seats in the upper deck was much higher than in other parks built since, due to both a smaller lower deck and a barely-there mezzanine deck. 2) The entrances are at the bottom level. If you look at all the other new parks, you always enter somewhere in the middle of the upper deck. At New Comiskey, you entered from the concourse and looked up at 30 something rows. It was much more daunting.

As for John McDonough, strangely enough, he is a lifelong Sox fan. I also believe that he would have been able to level the playing field more between the two teams. Marketing is not just the commercials a team does, but the total image the team puts out at the park and on broadcasts. McDonough is great at creating a fun atmosphere and broadcasts which promote the team and the game experience. The Cubs were always excellent at finding the perfect shot of the kid with a too-big ice cream cone, or at the other end, the busty coeds in tank tops. Sox broadcasts have never done that. They show the game, but they don't portend fun, and when the team is losing, are often brooding.

[Sodboy13]

And I think it's fairly damn obvious where that brooding stems from. Hawk is obviously the lead figure in the team's public image, and that image is awful because of him in no small part.

[The_Admiral]

I wonder how McDonough wound up a Sox fan, anyway. He's from one of those far-northwest neighborhoods that ends in "Park." Though he probably is Irish, so yeah. A real Sox fan would have used his position to sabotage the Cubs, though. Hey, maybe that explains it.

I do wonder now if the broadcasts put the idea of Sox games being grim and depressing into people's heads more than misconceptions about Bridgeport (which is really fine enough and largely indistinguishable from swaths of the north side, except that I wore a Cubs hat on a Sox gameday and some random dude called me a fag). The broadcasts are just so joyless. Baseball is supposed to be a celebration of summer and warmth and life. When the lead voice is some grouchy old hayseed who always hates his partner, you start perceiving everything else that way. The Sox' entire marketing presence has always been kind of standoffish, if you think about it. Come to games, or don't, we don't care, but we'll take your money. I was starting to think people liked it like that. Kind of strange for the team that wrote the freaking book on getting people out to the ballpark.

[Sodboy13]

Even when the team is good, White Sox games are unwatchable for me. I know some people eat that crap up, but they're getting fewer and dumber and older and poorer with each passing season, so maybe that shouldn't be a business' core target demo. Ed Farmer is tolerable on the radio side, but then Darrin Jackson starts talking for a stretch and whoopsies there goes my car into a utility pole again.

[CS85]

Even when the team is good, White Sox games are unwatchable for me. I know some people eat that crap up, but they're getting fewer and dumber and older and poorer with each passing season, so maybe that shouldn't be a business' core target demo. Ed Farmer is tolerable on the radio side, but then Darrin Jackson starts talking for a stretch and whoopsies there goes my car into a utility pole again.

Farmer/Jackson personify the White Sox for me as a neutral fan: flavorless. I've never been a Sox hater but their radio team is as bland as Hawk is obnoxious.

[The_Admiral]

Ed Farmer isn't bland. Most broadcasters are bland by training. There's almost a postmodernism to the way that he's a babbling, emptily self-aggrandizing twat. He dispenses with the conventions of baseball play-by-play and the fundamental principle of trying to convey a sense of sports-based excitement, and just sorta says a bunch of crap that may or may not have to do with the game at hand. It's kind of compelling in the abstract, but in real life it's mostly just crappy. I suggest you give them another try. Maybe you'll catch a fascinating story about the time Ed Farmer went golfing with famous stand-up comedian Sinbad and won, he actually beat Sinbad, at golf, yeah, how about that. 1 and 2 the count on Paulie, by the way.

[CS85]

Ed Farmer isn't bland. Most broadcasters are bland by training. There's almost a postmodernism to the way that he's a babbling, emptily self-aggrandizing twat. He dispenses with the conventions of baseball play-by-play and the fundamental principle of trying to convey a sense of sports-based excitement, and just sorta says a bunch of crap that may or may not have to do with the game at hand. It's kind of compelling in the abstract, but in real life it's mostly just crappy. I suggest you give them another try. Maybe you'll catch a fascinating story about the time Ed Farmer went golfing with famous stand-up comedian Sinbad and won, he actually beat Sinbad, at golf, yeah, how about that. 1 and 2 the count on Paulie, by the way.

I suppose so. I always felt like there should be a solid balance between play by play and color, but in my limited experiences with Farmer/Jackson they've just sorta been...there, I guess. Inoffensive but unengaging. I think part of this is my lack of any investment in the Sox, so I'm looking for any excuse to get excited for them, but they give my ears none.

That being said I still haven't made up my mind on Moreland with Hughes just yet.

[Gothamite]

I always liked Hughes when he partnered with Bob Uecker. What's the team like in Chicago?

[CubsFanBudMan]

I think Hughes was at his best with Santo. As a whole, it might not have been a better pure broadcast, but he was able to cover his partner's flaws fairly effortlessly, whether he played off it humorously or gently corrected it. That broadcast was more fun.

I'm not sure his pairing with Moreland was the best choice. Hughes doesn't seem like the standout he was before, but maybe that's because he doesn't have to be a one-man broadcast anymore.

Back off-topic: Arne Harris is your WGN TV guy with the kids and women concept. He deserves some credit for the aura of Cubs games that The Old Roman is referencing. And I hadn't thought about Hawk as a detriment, but I could see people getting the impression of a dull, quiet place because he goes mute like a fan when things go bad.

[TheOldRoman]

And I think it's fairly damn obvious where that brooding stems from. Hawk is obviously the lead figure in the team's public image, and that image is awful because of him in no small part.

Hawk is obviously the brooding. I don't think Hawk is at all to blame for a bad public image, but he certainly doesn't help. This image of the Sox has gone back to early years of the Reinsdorf era, at least. Hawk can pout at times when the team is doing poorly in a game, but the only time he was completely unlistenable to me was last year. Even in 2007, with a talented team sandwiched between 99, 90 and 89 win teams, which just so happened to crap the bed, he wasn't bad. You get a lot of Hawk hate from Cubs fans, obviously, but I don't think he has been a detriment among casual fans. If anything, his catch phrases would pull people in somewhat. Hawk was at his best with Wimpy, and I really believe they were one of the best PBP teams in baseball. They played off eachother well. Jackson is just dry toast; he did little to complement Hawk, and added very little of his own. Hawk didn't get to really bad until he was paired with Steve Stone. I think there's just too much ego for one booth to contain. Stone is a brilliant analyst, but his smugness can at times be grating. Hawk and Stone are a lot better than they were last year, but I still wouldn't be at all depressed if both left at this point.

As for radio, Farmer's pretty bad. John Rooney is one of the best PBP guys in baseball - great skill and a classic voice. When he left to go home to St. Louis, Farmer was promoted and the broadcasts have struggled since. Farmer would blabber on about whatever, but Rooney would always cut him off with, "I see, Ed. Runner in motion and here's the 3-2 pitch to Frank..." Rooney adequately reigned him in. Admiral's not exaggerating about Farmer. I listen get in my car at times and listen for 10 minutes before I hear the score of the game.

"Welcome back. First pitch of the inning was fouled off. So, on our off day yesterday, I did a little golfing. I went to the X charity golf outing out at Ruffled Feathers. You ever played there?"

(No)

"Ruffled Feathers in Lemont. Have you played that course?"

(No sir)

"Well, anyway, a lot of the '85 Bears were there"

*crack of bat, loud groan of fans in background*

"and I got paired up with Hall-of-Famer Dan Hampton. Did you know he's in the Hall of Fame now? Dan was telling me about times back in Arkansas, they were playing Alabama, coached by legendary Bear Bryant"

*audible sound of ball hitting mitt, mixed reaction from fans*

"and it was a big deal playing Alabama back in the day. Today, Arkansas is in the same conference, but back then they were in the Big Eight, so they didn't"

*crack of bat, fans get very loud, then groan*

"play all that often. It was a big deal. Alabama had some great teams. So, Morneau leads off with a double, just out of the reach of De Aza. Dan told me that..."

Jackson and Farmer just have this creepy love/hate relationship where they take shots at each other that really aren't that funny. Lots of awkward pauses, too.

On Pat Hughes, I think he has a good voice, but at least from what I've heard of him, his delivery is too schmaltzy. Or maybe it's the Cubs' schmaltz machine that shapes his delivery. I would think it's hard to sound legitimate when you're reading between batters "we've got a letter here from Beatrice in Des Moines, Iowa. She's 82, been a Cubs fan for 70 years, and listens to every game on WGN. She asks 'Pat, why do the Cubs wear pinstripes at home but not on the road?'" Anyway, I think teams could do worse than him, but they could also do better.

[The_Admiral]

Good write-up, but it needs to have something about how he almost challenged Bear Bryant to a fist fight and would have won if he did.

Pat Hughes is a consummate pro. Yeah, the Cubs force a certain level of schmaltz, but that's fine. I don't need my radio broadcasts to have edge. I've got enough edge for everyone.

[Gothamite]

That's really funny - I remember him as being the plain-speaking straight man to Uecker's schmaltz. Guess that was the dynamic they needed there - you can't out-folksy Ueck.

[The_Admiral]

As you may have heard, as per the Coyotes new arena lease agreement with the City of Glendale, the team will be introducing a parking fee for all Coyotes games at Jobing.com Arena this season beginning Sunday, September 15 when we play our first home preseason game against the Los Angeles Kings.

Under the Coyotes parking plan, full season ticket holders will have an opportunity to purchase permit parking in the Coyotes premium lot located on the east side of Jobing.com Arena (Lot G) for $645 ($15 per game). Full season ticket holders may also opt to purchase permit parking in Lot J for $430 ($10 per game). Both of these permit parking options are specially priced for you as a full season ticket holder, and not available for the general public.

If you choose not to purchase the season permit parking, you may opt to purchase parking on a game-by-game basis either in advance or day of game. Lot G will be available for $20 through advanced purchase via Ticketmaster or $25 on the day of game. Lots J, K, A, B will be available for $12 through advanced purchase via Ticketmaster or $15 on the day of game. There will also be a $10 parking option in Lots X and Y. Valet and Limo parking are available for $30 each game.

hope no one minds

But how do you charge for every parking space if you play at a strip mall?

[rams80]

As you may have heard, as per the Coyotes new arena lease agreement with the City of Glendale, the team will be introducing a parking fee for all Coyotes games at Jobing.com Arena this season beginning Sunday, September 15 when we play our first home preseason game against the Los Angeles Kings.

Under the Coyotes parking plan, full season ticket holders will have an opportunity to purchase permit parking in the Coyotes premium lot located on the east side of Jobing.com Arena (Lot G) for $645 ($15 per game). Full season ticket holders may also opt to purchase permit parking in Lot J for $430 ($10 per game). Both of these permit parking options are specially priced for you as a full season ticket holder, and not available for the general public.

If you choose not to purchase the season permit parking, you may opt to purchase parking on a game-by-game basis either in advance or day of game. Lot G will be available for $20 through advanced purchase via Ticketmaster or $25 on the day of game. Lots J, K, A, B will be available for $12 through advanced purchase via Ticketmaster or $15 on the day of game. There will also be a $10 parking option in Lots X and Y. Valet and Limo parking are available for $30 each game.

hope no one minds

But how do you charge for every parking space if you play at a strip mall?

Subcontract the Sinaloa Cartel to harass those who chose to park further away.

[dbadefense1990]

As you may have heard, as per the Coyotes new arena lease agreement with the City of Glendale, the team will be introducing a parking fee for all Coyotes games at Jobing.com Arena this season beginning Sunday, September 15 when we play our first home preseason game against the Los Angeles Kings.

Under the Coyotes parking plan, full season ticket holders will have an opportunity to purchase permit parking in the Coyotes premium lot located on the east side of Jobing.com Arena (Lot G) for $645 ($15 per game). Full season ticket holders may also opt to purchase permit parking in Lot J for $430 ($10 per game). Both of these permit parking options are specially priced for you as a full season ticket holder, and not available for the general public.

If you choose not to purchase the season permit parking, you may opt to purchase parking on a game-by-game basis either in advance or day of game. Lot G will be available for $20 through advanced purchase via Ticketmaster or $25 on the day of game. Lots J, K, A, B will be available for $12 through advanced purchase via Ticketmaster or $15 on the day of game. There will also be a $10 parking option in Lots X and Y. Valet and Limo parking are available for $30 each game.

hope no one minds

But how do you charge for every parking space if you play at a strip mall?

They could do what some malls here in the Southland do: park inside a garage, do your business, come back out to a paying kiosk and validate your ticket, then try to escape the garage within 10 minutes of validation.

Or do it the Phoenix way...

[dbadefense1990]

Subcontract the Sinaloa Cartel to harass those who chose to park further away.

At Dodger Stadium, we call these people, "securitas."

[FiddySicks]

As you may have heard, as per the Coyotes new arena lease agreement with the City of Glendale, the team will be introducing a parking fee for all Coyotes games at Jobing.com Arena this season beginning Sunday, September 15 when we play our first home preseason game against the Los Angeles Kings.

Under the Coyotes parking plan, full season ticket holders will have an opportunity to purchase permit parking in the Coyotes premium lot located on the east side of Jobing.com Arena (Lot G) for $645 ($15 per game). Full season ticket holders may also opt to purchase permit parking in Lot J for $430 ($10 per game). Both of these permit parking options are specially priced for you as a full season ticket holder, and not available for the general public.

If you choose not to purchase the season permit parking, you may opt to purchase parking on a game-by-game basis either in advance or day of game. Lot G will be available for $20 through advanced purchase via Ticketmaster or $25 on the day of game. Lots J, K, A, B will be available for $12 through advanced purchase via Ticketmaster or $15 on the day of game. There will also be a $10 parking option in Lots X and Y. Valet and Limo parking are available for $30 each game.

hope no one minds

But how do you charge for every parking space if you play at a strip mall?

Oh yeah, up your parking from free to $25(!).

That sounds like a great incentive to drive all the way out to Glenganistahn to watch a Red Wings home game!

And it's made all the more ridiculous by the fact that parking at Suns/D Backs/Rattlers games is usually around $5 (or free if you're willing to walk an extra three blocks). Or if you don't wanna do that, a round trip ticket on lightrail is $2.

So basically, they're just upping the cost of a product that nobody wants to see in the first place. Brilliant.

Let's look at it this way as well. Living in Tempe, if I wanted to go to a D Backs/Suns/Rattlers game, it'd definitely cost under $20, and could be less than a $10 bill.

Ticket: $5-$15

Lightrail: $2

But if I wanted to go to a Yotes/Cardinals game, it's basically a guarantee I'd have to spend AT LEAST $100.

Tickets: $20-$50 for the Yotes, $40-$80 for the Cards

Parking: $25(!)

Cost in fuel to even get to and from Glendale: $20-$40

And I'd have to do all of this sober, because you can't spend $11 on beers all game and try to drive home, so there's potential for a DUI.

So in conclusion,

D Backs/Suns/Rattlers games: $7-$20

Cardinals/Coyotes games: $100-$10,000

Westgate!

[Magnus]

I've never understood having to pay for the "privilege" of parking your car at a place you intend to spend money at.

TANGENT WARNING:

It's the same way with the mall in downtown Sudbury - and I believe that the mall suffers because of this. Many more shoppers in Sudbury visit the larger mall in the north end of the city because they have free parking.

I understand the bit about paying a fee if you intend to park at the mall but shop somewhere else downtown, in a way, but the problem with downtown Sudbury is that finding parking downtown is a nightmare just about anywhere except for that mall. I usually go downtown by bus when I need to/want to, but the bus system in Sudbury is, well, that's for another discussion entirely...

And don't get me started on hospital parking fees. When you're going to see a potentially dying loved one, how is it fair to be charged a fee every time you have to park your vehicle? All they should do is give you a free parking sticker to hang on your car when you go to the front desk, which would authorize you to be there. If you don't have one because you didn't go in and get it while at the hospital, that should indicate that you are not intending on going into the hospital.

[The_Admiral]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/20130822glendale-puts-more-officials-paid-leave.html

Something weird is going on. Glendale is sending all its bureaucrats home, including our guy Horatio "Awwww" Skeete. The crazy part is that this malfeasance might not even have to do with the Coyotes thing.

In a related matter, civil-rights leader the Rev. Jerrett Maupin, City Councilwoman Norma Alvarez and Councilman Ian Hugh held a news conference at City Hall on Thursday to publicly ask the state Attorney General’s Office to expand upon the existing state investigation into the city’s finances.

haha good luck with that. This is a Business-Friendly State.

[The_Admiral]

Also, HOLY CRAP ARE YOU KIDDING ME

http://www.azcentral.com/community/glendale/articles/20130823former-glendale-attorney-hired-by-coyotes.html

Didn't we call this? the Coyotes' allies at City Hall happening to find jobs with the team?