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NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator


the admiral

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Columbus doesn't even have an argument for moving. They got their bailout years ago.

 

The thing that's interesting about the Beej is that you've rarely or never heard a thing about shady, incompetent, or downright inexplicable business practices, the stuff we've grown more than accustomed to with other NHL teams. As a business, they're run just fine. With them, it's simply been a case of really awful hockey operations, where everything they touch turns to crap. I don't think there's anything about Columbus in and of itself that makes them this way -- if anything, being able to chill out in a giant white-collar suburb is a net positive -- it's just that talent is finite on all levels and they always wind up on the ass end whether it's players or coaches or scouts or GMs. As we've seen with the Thrashers to some extent, if you up and moved the Beej wholesale and didn't change anything about what they were doing, they'd be in the same position they're in today. If there's an argument to be made about Columbus and franchise placement, it's simply not to expand any further.

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This past year has convinced me Florida's stable for the forseeable future. Broward County rolled over for more handouts, the on-ice product has improved greatly and seems to be built for sustainability, and even though Vinnie Viola is a GODDAMN COCAINE MONSTER, he seems dedicated to the market and making a successful team, appears to have actual money, and the Feds don't seem to have any real interest in regulating or tamping down the HFT racket he runs.

 

As for Québec City, well, looks like they learned "never build on spec" the hard way. They're getting boned for sure, but maybe don't dedicate $450 million to an NHL-caliber arena when you know full well the league views you as the Market of Last Resort/Frenchipeg.

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And now SinBin.vegas is reporting the recommendation has been made. Vegas will get franchise 31 in 2017-18, Québec will be told to eat a bag of, how do yoy say, le dicks, and the league will continue to hope and pray that an arena gets built in Seattle somehow while presumably taking over Carolina and attempting to bleed out local officials.

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14 minutes ago, Sodboy13 said:

And now SinBin.vegas is reporting the recommendation has been made. Vegas will get franchise 31 in 2017-18, Québec will be told to eat a bag of, how do yoy say, le dicks, and the league will continue to hope and pray that an arena gets built in Seattle somehow while presumably taking over Carolina and attempting to bleed out local officials.

 

Let's be stupid forever.

 

Honolulu will get a goddamn team before Quebec (or Seattle)

 

The punch line to all of this is the Raiders will end up moving to Vegas and the Black Aces will end up being afterthoughts faster than you can say GODDAMNIT BETTMAN,

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13 minutes ago, Sodboy13 said:

And now SinBin.vegas is reporting the recommendation has been made. Vegas will get franchise 31 in 2017-18, Québec will be told to eat a bag of, how do yoy say, le dicks, and the league will continue to hope and pray that an arena gets built in Seattle somehow while presumably taking over Carolina and attempting to bleed out local officials.

Ladies and gentlemen, we are now at Expancon 1

A7Fx5BQ.gif

 

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23 hours ago, the admiral said:

Columbus doesn't even have an argument for moving. They got their bailout years ago.

 

The thing that's interesting about the Beej is that you've rarely or never heard a thing about shady, incompetent, or downright inexplicable business practices, the stuff we've grown more than accustomed to with other NHL teams. As a business, they're run just fine. With them, it's simply been a case of really awful hockey operations, where everything they touch turns to crap. I don't think there's anything about Columbus in and of itself that makes them this way -- if anything, being able to chill out in a giant white-collar suburb is a net positive -- it's just that talent is finite on all levels and they always wind up on the ass end whether it's players or coaches or scouts or GMs. As we've seen with the Thrashers to some extent, if you up and moved the Beej wholesale and didn't change anything about what they were doing, they'd be in the same position they're in today. If there's an argument to be made about Columbus and franchise placement, it's simply not to expand any further.

Here's a long post that you probably didn't ask for, but I'm killing time at work: I don't buy that the market is inherently unable to compete. Columbus is a fine place to work and live and our dancing fat guy just lost 100 pounds!

 

It's a management problem. Ownership swung and missed on the first two GMs. We wind up on the ass end of talent because Doug Maclean thought we'd never sit through a slow build, that we were stupid college football fans who would never embrace the game unless the team signed some names and was good right away, and didn't bother to even try building a farm system. That predictably backfired when A. we weren't good right away B. left nothing in the cupboard and no developmental system and C. doomed us for a decade of "bad, but not bad enough". We picked in the Top Ten in 12 of the last 16 drafts and somehow managed to avoid drafting: Kovalchuk, Heatley, Spezza, Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, Ryan, Toews, Kessel, any of the Staals, Kane, Stamkos, Doughty, McDavid, Eichel, and more. 

 

Maclean probably would've ruined those guys, but to go through that minefield and not hit on a single one is ridiculous. Only twice did we draft in the top two and in those instances we took Rick Nash who is a nice player and a good soldier for longer than he could've been, but of the last 15 #1's might have a hard time cracking the top ten, and Ryan Murray, who's been too injured to even know how good he could be. Couldn't even have the fortune to suck in a year when a truly great player was available. 

 

Of course, there's always good talent available in the back half of the top ten and the CBJ did a poor job scouting and developing those guys, but still, if we'd landed Malkin and Crosby instead of Alexandre Picard and Gilbert Brule things would be a lot different. Hell, if Maclean had taken Kopitar like his scouts wanted things would be a lot different. 

 

I don't put any of that on the city or being 30th in line. I put that on hiring the absolute wrong guy to start a franchise with. 

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Good stuff. Kind of reminds me of the expansion Browns and how to this day they've never been able to outrun the terrible mistakes the team made early on (though the biggest mistake of all was the NFL giving them the shortest lead time an expansion team has ever had).

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I shudder to think about "What could have been" when it comes to how the Thrashers could have been developed.

 

Let's start at the very top with ownership....Ted Turner quickly faded into AOL/Time Warner, which was basically a corporation not really paying attention to the sports teams (Braves and Hawks as well).  When AOL had to start shedding excess fat, the teams were one of the first entities to go.  The Thrashers were close to being sold to some guy in Texas named David McDavid until Ted's son-in-law and oddball son and the rest of the Quorum of Asshats (thanks Admiral!).  Ok, local ownership is good, ties to the city...we're good!  Well....5.5 years of court hearings later, and...yeah.  Oy.  The Thrashers went from making a profit under Time Warner to becoming a joke in a hurry.

 

Front office: Ok, it wasn't a bad thing to hire the assistant GM of a team that just won back-to-back Cups.  You can do worse.  And early on, Don Waddell did what he could to bring long-term success...he acquired a crap-load of draft picks and prospects and had his lined-out Five Year Plan.  When it comes to making trades and scavenging the waiver wire, Waddell was actually pretty strong.  He acquired Slava Kozlov for nothing, Marc Savard for nothing, and put Rich Peverley on the map.  He had a shaky record in drafts (for every Heatley and Kovalchuk, there was a Stefan and Bourret and Valabik).  His free agent signings were nothing to write home about (hurrah for Todd White).  It seems like every year, his moves fell short of reasonable expectation, as a whole.

 

Coaching: Ok, not much Curt Fraser could have done with the group he had.  About all I remember from his tenure was that he and the Hawks coach both got fired on the same day, the day after Christmas.  Waddell had a couple stints as coach (which is always great....dual GM/head coach).  Bob Hartley did really well, but in typical team fashion, they fire a coach six games into the season following their most successful season.  John Anderson sucked, and Craig Ramsay never really got going.

 

And then....there was just sheer bad luck.  Damian Rhodes was a decent goalie in Ottawa...couldn't keep his groin together here.  Dany Heatley killed a teammate and tore knee ligaments.  Stefan kept seeing stars.  First decent goalie in franchise history wrecks his knee during the lockout season.  Lehtonen had a fragile groin.  Pavelec collapsed on the ice because of dehydration.  The Thrashers once went through five goalies in ten games to open a season.  Norm Maracle stunk.  Bobby Holik was too old.  Jaroslav Modry was too slow.  What are you doing, Andy Sutton?  And we had way-past-their-primes Mark Recchi, Peter Bondra, Keith Tkachuk, and Chris Chelios!  And a lot of guys that never had a prime.

 

And now look at the mess Winnipeg is in...that franchise has had nearly 20 years of acquiring draft picks and prospects, and they still haven't had anything close to resembling long-term sustained success.  One division championship, two playoff appearances, 0-for in the playoffs.  How is that even possible?  That franchise would strive for being snake-bitten.

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3 hours ago, McCarthy said:

Here's a long post that you probably didn't ask for, but I'm killing time at work: I don't buy that the market is inherently unable to compete. Columbus is a fine place to work and live and our dancing fat guy just lost 100 pounds!

 

It's a management problem. Ownership swung and missed on the first two GMs. We wind up on the ass end of talent because Doug Maclean thought we'd never sit through a slow build, that we were stupid college football fans who would never embrace the game unless the team signed some names and was good right away, and didn't bother to even try building a farm system. That predictably backfired when A. we weren't good right away B. left nothing in the cupboard and no developmental system and C. doomed us for a decade of "bad, but not bad enough". We picked in the Top Ten in 12 of the last 16 drafts and somehow managed to avoid drafting: Kovalchuk, Heatley, Spezza, Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, Ryan, Toews, Kessel, any of the Staals, Kane, Stamkos, Doughty, McDavid, Eichel, and more. 

 

Maclean probably would've ruined those guys, but to go through that minefield and not hit on a single one is ridiculous. Only twice did we draft in the top two and in those instances we took Rick Nash who is a nice player and a good soldier for longer than he could've been, but of the last 15 #1's might have a hard time cracking the top ten, and Ryan Murray, who's been too injured to even know how good he could be. Couldn't even have the fortune to suck in a year when a truly great player was available. 

 

Of course, there's always good talent available in the back half of the top ten and the CBJ did a poor job scouting and developing those guys, but still, if we'd landed Malkin and Crosby instead of Alexandre Picard and Gilbert Brule things would be a lot different. Hell, if Maclean had taken Kopitar like his scouts wanted things would be a lot different. 

 

I don't put any of that on the city or being 30th in line. I put that on hiring the absolute wrong guy to start a franchise with. 

2010-06-15-09-43-34-4c178386d8943MacLean,_Doug.JPG

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1 hour ago, HedleyLamarr said:

And now look at the mess Winnipeg is in...that franchise has had nearly 20 years of acquiring draft picks and prospects, and they still haven't had anything close to resembling long-term sustained success.  One division championship, two playoff appearances, 0-for in the playoffs.  How is that even possible?  That franchise would strive for being snake-bitten.

 

I think they're going to turn the corner with Laine, Connor, Ehlers, Morrissey (giggle), and full-time Hellebuyck. Much like the Panthers with Ekblad and Barkov, you can screw up in this league for a long time, but eventually you'll have so many life jackets thrown at you that you simply can't sink anymore, even if it's just a matter of the life jackets piling up into a giant orange man-made island to wash up on. I'm not convinced Cheveldayoff and Heisinger are the best men for the job, but then again, the crusty old doofus who would trade his wife for any puppy-soft forward from Michigan is a win away from a second Stanley Cup. Pace-not-pace Jerry Krause, organizations don't always win championships.

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14 hours ago, the admiral said:

Good stuff. Kind of reminds me of the expansion Browns and how to this day they've never been able to outrun the terrible mistakes the team made early on (though the biggest mistake of all was the NFL giving them the shortest lead time an expansion team has ever had).

Yes the nu Browns comparison is dead on. They can't get out of their own way while also not catching a single break. The Browns would be in a better position right now if they drew prospect names out of a hat and same goes for the Blue Jackets. 

 

Is it fair to continue to blame a guy who hasn't worked for the team for 9 years now? Probably not, but the franchise was worse than an expansion team when he left. Expansion teams have hope for the future and they get to pick high in the draft. Maclean scorched the Earth, made the franchise undesirable for free agents, and built a big league club eternally incapable of making the playoffs, but never bad enough to draft higher than 6th. And then ownership who doesn't know a thing about hockey (Younger McConnell once said Pat Burns won a Stanley Cup with the "Detroit Blue Devils" on microphone at a Ken Hitchock milestone celebration) hires Scott Howson.

 

I'll give Howson credit for getting the team to the playoffs, and finding some NHL talent in the latter rounds (Matt Calvert, Cam Atkinson), but just the most awful trades. Howson was so bad the league made us hire Craig Patrick and strongly suggested we hire John Davidson. They Ted Stepiened us! So far I like Jarmo, he's building through the draft and the Lake Erie Monsters are some evidence he knows what he's doing in the draft, but he's made some headscratching deals himself (Jared Boll extension, Horton for Clarkson, Dalton Prout extension). Jury's still out on him. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, McCarthy said:

Yes the nu Browns comparison is dead on. They can't get out of their own way while also not catching a single break. The Browns would be in a better position right now if they drew prospect names out of a hat and same goes for the Blue Jackets. 

 

IMO, this is even more unforgivable for the Browns. Football sees pretty much everyone from the first round or two suit up the next season. College is, essentially, their development system. 

 

The NHL sees pretty much everyone past the first 5 to 10 draft picks spend at least a season in college/juniors/minors. The NHL entry draft is, mainly, about drafting prospects, while the NFL is mainly about drafting players.

 

Hockey drafting has a significantly higher built-in gamble than Football.

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Look at this crap tweet, it's like they have LadyStanley running p.r. for them. "Goodness me! The Sharks almost but didn't break a record among four of NBC's eleven Stanley Cup Finals that generally had poor ratings. (And that's good news going forward.)" 

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45 minutes ago, the admiral said:

 

 

Look at this crap tweet, it's like they have LadyStanley running p.r. for them. "Goodness me! The Sharks almost but didn't break a record among four of NBC's eleven Stanley Cup Finals that generally had poor ratings. (And that's good news going forward.)" 

The rating for game 5 was pretty good, even including the O6 Finals games on NBC. I'm sure the Pro Bowl pre-game show beat it handily, but it was pretty good for the NHL. Game 5 was equal to or better than every game in the Kings-Devils series, for instance.

 

Edit: Due to in-post editing, it seemed like I said Kings-Devils was an O6 series. I know it's not, but Game 5 still holds up against other Finals games.

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  • 4 months later...
  • 4 weeks later...
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If I read the article correctly the red dot is where the new 16,000 seat arena would go

 

arenaphx.png

 

Much closer to where the money lives in Scottsdale, Gilbert, Chandler, and Mesa. Not to mention much more accessible for ASU students. 

 

Edit: 

 

For comparison: Here is where they currently play

arenaphxComparison.png

 

 

No mystery why they have attendance problems. 

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