NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator

[IceCap]

The NHL wants to be in Seattle, but they don't have a rink. Or the prospect of one. Seattle will only build one if they can get an NBA team (a NHL team would be an afterthought) and it doesn't look like they're getting one.

[Braden]

The Detroit/Phoenix capacity comparison is utter garbage. Detroit has been a serious cup contender for about 2 decades now... and has had 80 years to build a fanbase and hockey culture. Having the weather for it certainly helps.

Coyotes are going nowhere. You haters can suck it.

Let their fans celebrate in peace.

[Sodboy13]

So, the deal for Jamison would reportedly keep the Coyotes in Glendale for 21 years. $92 million for the first five, and then another $214 million over the next sixteen, for a total of $306 million in local government subsidies to a private business that has never turned a profit in its previous 16 years of existence.

A near-broke municipality is willing to guarantee nearly a third of a billion dollars to an agreement where any and all returns on its investment would be indirect. If this is anything but a sports team, this gets universally decried as the dumbest goddamn idea ever.

But hey, maybe this deal requires Jamison to make an effort to rename the team "Glendale Coyotes", so yay.

[Gothamite]

So, the deal for Jamison would reportedly keep the Coyotes in Glendale for 21 years. $92 million for the first five, and then another $214 million over the next sixteen, for a total of $306 million in local government subsidies to a private business that has never turned a profit in its previous 16 years of existence.

A near-broke municipality is willing to guarantee nearly a third of a billion dollars to an agreement where any and all returns on its investment would be indirect. If this is anything but a sports team, this gets universally decried as the dumbest goddamn idea ever.

But hey, maybe this deal requires Jamison to make an effort to rename the team "Glendale Coyotes", so yay.

"Hello, Goldwater Institute?"

[The_Admiral]

So you like the NBA model where you got 3 or 4 good teams that can win and the Washington Generals and a baked up schemed up final with the officals helping to get the biggest stars in the biggest games.

The NBA isn't perfect, but one thing I love about the NBA is that you can't fake being good. You are or you aren't. Sure, you can play zone now, but all the zone in the world won't help you if you're up against elite talent and you have none of your own. The Spurs and Pistons who won with "defense and fundamentals" still had multiple Hall of Famers. The 2004 Pistons were most decidedly not a ragtag assemblage of scrubs, unless you live in a world where Rasheed Wallace and Chauncey Billups are scrubs.

It's a tragic flaw of hockey that you can win without being good, something that prohibits success in every other team or individual sport. For all of Tony La Russa's daft tinkering, he never figured out a way to win ballgames that didn't involve scoring baserunners at bat and recording outs in the field.

[drdougfresh]

The Detroit/Phoenix capacity comparison is utter garbage. Detroit has been a serious cup contender for about 2 decades now... and has had 80 years to build a fanbase and hockey culture. Having the weather for it certainly helps.

Coyotes are going nowhere. You haters can suck it.

Let their fans celebrate in peace.

Not trying to be a hater. I'm just saying-- the Coyotes don't have a very loyal fan base (in terms of attendance). Probably has a lot to do with where the stadium is now located, but the attendance spikes when certain opposing teams come to town speaks volumes-- we're all transplants here. I would think the growth of the team the last few years would help, but it's just the nature of AZ, I suppose. Same thing happened with the Diamondbacks. I'm just being realistic. I'm happy for the team, they've been fun to watch for the better part of my life in AZ.

I don't understand where this extreme pessimism is coming from, though. It's getting a bit excessive. Let the team celebrate?hopefully they have a new owner that will help grow overall awareness and attendance (because the marketing efforts here in PHX are lackluster at best). That's really what they need to get back on their feet.

[Sodboy13]

I would just like to state that if there was an investor who wanted to buy the Coyotes with 100% private funds and keep the team in Glendale without government subsidy, I'd be fine with it. Such a person has yet to materialize over the past three years, however.

[The_Admiral]

Didn't the original Jim Balsillie deal actually pay Glendale a severance package of sorts in exchange for taking the team to Hamilton? Turns out Glendale would've come out ahead with that one, though the utter collapse of Blackberry--and in turn, Balsillie's fortune--probably wouldn't have been good for the Hamilton team. All hypothetical, of course, because there was and is never going to be a team in Hamilton.

[-kj]

Never a team in Hamilton? I thought they were right after Quebec City in the race to Make It 30.

[Sodboy13]

Never a team in Hamilton? I thought they were right after Quebec City in the race to Make It 30.

Have you looked at Blackberry stock lately? They're now behind Nunavut, which is putting together a preliminary bid for the Red Wings.

Really looking forward the Kootenay Blackhawks, you guys.

[The_Admiral]

The Frogurt Is Also Cursed: FAILED COYOTE SUITOR FOLLOW-UP

Jim Balsillie: lost all his money because Zooey Deschanel doesn't endorse his smartphone

Ice Edge: never had any money to lose, has been repeatedly clowned, reduced to wanting to put an ECHL team in Thunder Bay

Matt Hulsizer: couldn't afford to buy the Coyotes nor Blues because his wife wouldn't give him the money, wound up a laughingstock for this and publishing strange memos sent from the future of Egypt's past or something

Jerry Reinsdorf: signed expensive designated hitter to hit 40 points below the Mendoza Line, had pretty much all of star basketball player's joints explode

[DarkJourney]

and we wonder why no one can take the NHL seriously. Hockey = great sport. NHL = idiots with billions.

[Crash]

Advocating for an entire city and all of its government services over a sports team that has failed to find self-sufficiency is not hating. Discarding logical or ethical arguments by labeling those that disagree with you "haters" only reveals your own willful blindness and/or ignorance. If this were any other business asking to be subsidized by a city without the money for the subsidies so that they can be purchased by a group that has no money, everyone but that group would be giving that business the finger and showing them the door. But because it's a sports franchise, it becomes emotional to the point of nonsense. I love sports as much as most of you and love my teams at least as much, but face it: Odds are that the Coyotes Experiment is killing people and sapping a city. This is why I want to see the Coyotes move. I'd much, much rather have them be a profitable and well-loved pride of Glendale and stay right where they are for a long, long time. They're not profitable. They're not a point of pride. They are a money drain. They need to go.

Go Coyotes.

[Still MIGHTY]

So you like the NBA model where you got 3 or 4 good teams that can win and the Washington Generals and a baked up schemed up final with the officals helping to get the biggest stars in the biggest games.

The NBA isn't perfect, but one thing I love about the NBA is that you can't fake being good. You are or you aren't. Sure, you can play zone now, but all the zone in the world won't help you if you're up against elite talent and you have none of your own. The Spurs and Pistons who won with "defense and fundamentals" still had multiple Hall of Famers. The 2004 Pistons were most decidedly not a ragtag assemblage of scrubs, unless you live in a world where Rasheed Wallace and Chauncey Billups are scrubs.

It's a tragic flaw of hockey that you can win without being good, something that prohibits success in every other team or individual sport. For all of Tony La Russa's daft tinkering, he never figured out a way to win ballgames that didn't involve scoring baserunners at bat and recording outs in the field.

Have you figured out a way to win hockey games that doesn't involve keeping more pucks out of your net than you put in the oppositions net? (Don't say OTLs/SOLs, because yes as the Panthers showed that can buoy you to the playoffs, but you won't be winning much of anything past that.)

I really don't get why you are so pissy that the Coyotes are winning the way they are. I know a lot of it has to do with this whole situation and that they "miraculously got good once the NHL bought them". They got miraculously good because they got a much better coach than the piss-poor one Gretzky was, started drafting better, developed talent, and bought better free agents to fit into their system. You have your conspiracy about the NHL making them better, but what would you have wanted the NHL to do? Make them abhorrently suck? From what I can tell, the NHL has been pretty hands off and letting Maloney and the Coyotes organization run themselves with the backing of negotiating on terms of good faith with anybody else (unlike Stern and the Hornets). Are they signing the checks? Yeah, but are they meddling to make this whole thing work/fail? No.

---

People's hate of the whole situation and the Glendale City Council are bleeding over onto the actual team and fans. They have nothing to do with this stupid nonsense. Some of you need to step back, reevaluate what's going on, and attack the right people.

Do I think Glendale is idiotic and self-destructive? Yeah. Is this whole thing stupid? Yeah. Trust me, I'm not ignoring the facts here to say that this is all well and good. I'm just going to stop analyzing the situation and let it play out. I rooting for the success of the team and that hopefully something positive for everyone gets worked out. If it doesn't, well damn that's going to suck.

I'm not rooting for Glendale to dig itself deeper (and honestly, with or without the Coyotes, Glendale would still be in a 10-foot deep hole), I'm rooting for something to work out for the Coyotes. If it doesn't, well then , it was nice knowing you Coyotes and I along with their many die-hard fans will miss you.

Go Coyotes.

Back to your regularly scheduled Coyotes piss parade.

[The_Admiral]

On the contrary, I don't think any of their draft picks under NHL ownership have come up. Any graduated prospects were drafted well before then. The only recent draft pick I see is Ekman-Larsson, and he was 2009.

I don't like the way they're winning because it's bad, unentertaining hockey for most of us. Like I said, it's all about bringing the game down to the lowest common denominator. What they're playing isn't worth saving. I make no apologies that I like uptempo, edge-of-your-seat hockey with abundant scoring chances and amazing players doing amazing things. I do not like A Bunch Of Guys camping out at the blue line, getting a turnover, scoring on an odd-man rush, and then sitting back on a 1-0 lead forever. I think it's bad for me and it's bad for the game at large, having seen the last time much of the league had no greater aspirations than to grind the game down to a big nothing. It shouldn't be rewarded, and should in fact be better proscribed by the rulebook and officials. However, great seats still available.

[NJTank]

So what you are saying a game cant be fun if its 2-1 and the goalie is having a great game. You want wider nets back flips and scoring galore. You want nothing but home runs and slam dunks. You sir, Admiral and viewers like you is what makes ESPN and Sportscenter suck these days.

[rams80]

So what you are saying a game cant be fun if its 2-1 and the goalie is having a great game. You want wider nets back flips and scoring galore. You want nothing but home runs and slam dunks. You sir, Admiral and viewers like you is what makes ESPN and Sportscenter suck these days.

No, what Admiral is saying that he's fine with 2-1 games that feature goalies standing on their head. What he's not fine with is a 2-1 game in which one or both teams have proceeded to erect a hockey Hindenburg Line through liberal use of obstruction and interference.

[The_Admiral]

Great, now I ruined Sportscenter. I'm having a bad day.

[Breakwood]

Never a team in Hamilton? I thought they were right after Quebec City in the race to Make It 30.

Have you looked at Blackberry stock lately? They're now behind Nunavut, which is putting together a preliminary bid for the Red Wings.

Really looking forward the Kootenay Blackhawks, you guys.

Wabush Blue Jackets! 2020 Stanley Cup Champions!

[The_Admiral]

Oh, and the Blackhawks' games against the Red Wings were all low-scoring affairs,

FAKE EDIT:

3-2 Hawks

3-2 Wings OT

3-2 Wings OT

2-1 Hawks

2-1 Hawks

3-2 Hawks SO

but objectively speaking, they were the best games I watched my team play all year. Probably because of all those really good players the two teams have. Even when Toews, Datsyuk, et al were missing!

ACTUAL EDIT: their games with Vancouver were pretty good, too, with each team winning close at home and then big on the road.