Should Pete Rose be Reinstated into Baseball?

[HedleyLamarr]

I've heard these points argued before, and they hold water right up to the point where you look at Bonds' comparative season-by-season statistics during the era. The watered-down pitching argument gets blown away in Bonds case because had that been a factor, he'd have been right up there with the other juicers (McGwire/Sosa) in 1998. Instead his most prolific season was 2001, four years after the expansion and a time by which the league-wide pitching levels had settled. Another point to consider is that Bonds played more games against an expansion team (Arizona) in '98 than McGwire or Sosa, further negating that argument.

Why are you focusing on just Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa? Look at the cumulative number of home runs in MLB during this era.

In 1992, only 1262 homers were hit in the NL. That number jumped by 700 the next season when Florida and Colorado joined the league. In 1994 and through today, that number has either been above 2000 (or on pace for above 2000 in the strike-shortened seasons). The homerun total jumped another 400 when Arizona joined the NL in 1998 to 2568, and the cumulative homerun numbers for the NL stayed above 2500 until the 2009 season...which is right around the time overall pitching started to become dominant again.

During the '98 season there was press attention paid to the balls, implying they were juiced along with the players. Independent studies were commissioned, baseballs were sliced, x-rayed, etc. The results? The ball used in 1998 was identical to that used in 1988 save the graphics screen printed on them.

MLB pitchers (Kenny Rogers for sure, a couple others) sawed MLB-issued baseballs in half and discovered there was rubber in the middle instead of cork. MLB will deny it, but pitchers did have reasons (mainly, for health and for career) to see why balls were bouncing off bats harder and faster.

Batting armor, if anything, I think would lead to an increase not in power status, but in hit by pitches - with pitchers more willing to throw inside and jam hitters.

I didn't look up the HBP numbers, but wearing the amount of armor that batters wore served one purpose....to not be backed off the plate by inside pitches. They could stand closer to the plate and focus on their personal happy-zone instead of worrying about a fastball hitting them. Pitchers lost the ability to back batters off the plate and set up outer-half out pitches.

The Earl Weaver school of baseball strategy is an interesting theory, but if that were the case in the 1970's Baltimore should have had a laundry list of sluggers in its lineup to work that strategy. The biggest names I can recall from that era were Ken Singleton and (for one year) Reggie Jackson.

While I don't agree with the strategy myself, I can see why it was a strategy....3-run homers are momentum-shifters. It's landing that haymaker instead of jabbing your way to runs. Home runs shake the pitcher's confidence and it either pumps up the home crowd or silences the road venue. With pitching not being as good and a lineup full of guys with the ability to hit a homerun, it was seen as a positive to strike out instead of hitting a double play.

[Jimmy!]

Thinking of players who COULD be kicked out, Gaylord Perry comes to mind. He was notorious for doctoring pitches (or at least making batters think they were doctored). I am surprised his induction was never called into question.

[The_Admiral]

The Earl Weaver school of baseball strategy is an interesting theory, but if that were the case in the 1970's Baltimore should have had a laundry list of sluggers in its lineup to work that strategy. The biggest names I can recall from that era were Ken Singleton and (for one year) Reggie Jackson.

Dude, you forgot Frank Robinson! And Brooks Robinson!

Also, the Weaver axiom was "pitching, defense, and the three-run homer," in that order. It's the "wait for the three-run homer" that always gets people grumbling about not Playing The Game The Right Way, but they had Jim Palmer, Mike Cuellar, that year Steve Stone threw nothing but curveballs, and absolutely crackerjack fielding from the minors on up.

[The_Admiral]

As someone who took adderall in high school for ADD, I can confirm that amphetamines have significant performance enhancing qualities. They increase strength and stamina and suppress appetite, and increases attention which all those things I'd include as performance enhancers. Also cocain is definitely a performance enhancer, they increase stamina, speed and some other things I'd have to look up to find but i know it is a performance enhancer that also is a recreational drug.

I wish I had snorted adderall in high school. I think I would have been a lot more successful.

[DCarp1231]

While enjoying my day off, I was playing MLB The Show 2015 and was looking at MLB records... On the game, listed under career hits record they don't have Pete Rose listed, but instead just "Cincinnati Reds" which I thought was interesting. They also have "San Francisco Giants" listed under single season HR record instead of Barry Bonds.

It looks like MLB the show isn't very fond of those two

[TheOldRoman]

Not necessarily. Rose may be out of the MLBPA licensing agreement because he was banned, but Bonds opted out when he was still active. This is the agreement which allows them to use players' likenesses in video games and sell jerseys. Bonds could still be in videogames and jerseys still made, but the companies would have to come to agreements with him personally. EA didn't want to pay Bonds to be in MVP baseball, so his abilities and spot on the Giants were given to a John Dowd character.

[NJTank]

Well Crap

http://www.nj.com/phillies/index.ssf/2015/08/pete_rose_denies_allegations_of_statutory_rape_by.html

Pete Rose bet on his own team?

That's nothing compared to a new bombshell that, if true, could end any talk of Major League Baseball's hit king having his lifetime ban lifted.

John Dowd, the investigator whose findings led to Rose's ban in 1989 by former MLB Commissioner Bart Giamatti, claims he was told by former Rose associate Michael Bertolini that Rose committed statutory rape on young girls during his playing and/or managerial career.

In a July 13 interview with WCHE in West Chester, Pa., that hadn't surfaced until now, the former federal organized crime investigator said, "Michael Bertolini told us that not only did he run bets, but he ran young girls for him down in spring training. Ages 12-14. Isn't that lovely? So that's statutory rape every time you do that."

Jared meet Pete, Pete meet Jared, Do you still get free subs Jared no, maybe we can get some advice from Bill Cosby

[NJTank]

He does not make supporting him easy

[Gothamite]

So why do you do it? I've yet to actually see any reason why you think he's earned another chance.

[NJTank]

4,256 hits

[Gothamite]

That's it? He deserved to break baseball's cardinal rule without consequence, the one posted in every clubhouse for the past century, the one rule every baseball player knows not to break, because he was really good at baseball?

He deserved to lie for decades without consequence, he deserved to smear truthful men without consequence, because he was really good at baseball?

Wow. That's... absurd.

[The_Admiral]

How many times does 4,256 go into 14?

[NJTank]

How many times does 4,256 go into 14?

304 and to think I thought 14 was his birthdate and not his ideal age

[IceCap]

4,256 hits

Those hits are honoured in the Hall. The man behind them, who broke baseball's cardinal rule and lied repeatedly until forced to change his story, is not.

[sportzfan]

I want to not believe it, but when everything about him ends up being true it's hard not to believe it.

[2001mark]

4,256 hits

[TheOldRoman]

I don't know if 12 or 14 year olds would even be considered statutory rape for a guy in his 30s or 40s. I think it would be, to disagree with the scholar Whoopi Goldberg, "rape rape." Regardless, it's hearsay over something that allegedly happened 30+ years ago and there's zero evidence of it. Pete's plenty scummy on his own that we don't need to dig up unsubstantiated claims to sully his character. This doesn't hurt his chances of being reinstated because he didn't really have any left.

[sc49erfan15]

I don't know if 12 or 14 year olds would even be considered statutory rape for a guy in his 30s or 40s. I think it would be, to quote the scholar Whoopi Goldberg, " 'rape' rape." Regardless, it's hearsay over something that allegedly happened 30+ years ago and there's zero evidence of it. Pete's plenty scummy on his own that we don't need to dig up unsubstantiated claims to sully his character. This doesn't hurt his chances of being reinstated because he didn't really have any left.

If the age of consent is/was 16, then I think 14 year olds would probably be considered "statutory rape," but 12 is definitely in "child molestation" territory. I feel scummy even typing this. Either way, like you said, it's hearsay unless solid evidence comes out - but it's also disgusting.

[Sport]

Tank, give it up. The man is a bad human being no matter how many times he hit a ball with a piece of wood. He doesn't deserve your support.

I mean, he's one of the 4 best players in my favorite team's history and I want nothing to do with the guy.

[OnWis97]

I want to not believe it, but when everything about him ends up being true it's hard not to believe it.

And that's what happens when someone proves over and over that he's a liar. Suppose this is not true; then it's too bad. But Pete has not earned any "benefit of the doubt."