Cleveland Browns Brown Uniform

[Buster]

I think you're wrong here. You can't look at what the NFL allowed 20 years ago. Branding and merchandising wasn't then what it has become. A better example of them allowing tweak would be the Rams, as they unveiled the new unis with a block font. then went to the current font the next year, and removed the side panels in year three. Still, replicas had the Rams' custom font in year one, unlike the gamers, and it could be argued that dropping the side panel was a very minor thing.

Like their relocation rules, I'm sure the uniform rules can be amended on a case-by-case basis. That being said, I can promise you that pants haven nothing to do with it. That's because the NFL doesn't sell replica pants, and there are no manufacturers complaining they have 100,000 unsold pairs of Browns pants sitting in a warehouse. The Browns could come out in gray pants for 16 games next year if the wanted, and I don't think the NFL would have an issue.

However, since jerseys are sold to fans, and are a huge money industry, there would be an issue with changing the Browns' numbers. Nike is going to be pissed that they have thousands of un-sellable orange-numbered jerseys sitting in a warehouse because of the change. Sports Authority is going to be pissed that a bunch of jerseys they recently ordered will have to be discounted because they are no longer current. The absolute only way the Browns change the numbers next year is if the NFL determines they are illegible. Otherwise, they're here to stay.

I think you're right. There was a huge backlash over the Jags' new helmets and they kept them for another year. A quick and effective fix would be to pick eith ther gold or flat black for the entire helmet. The team has to know how much fans hate the new helmet. It's everyone too, not just on this forum.

My guess is, they were not allowed to fix their mistake.

[Buster]

My take on the Browns jersey set from yesterday's game vs. Jets: visually speaking, it didn't look like the Jets were playing another team from the NFL. And that's all I have to say about that.

Sadly, that's becoming common...

Browns

49ers in black (any team doing BFBS)

Jags

Bucs

Titans (never looked professional to me)

Seahawks - especially lime green jersey

[ARTnSocal]

I think you're wrong here. You can't look at what the NFL allowed 20 years ago. Branding and merchandising wasn't then what it has become. A better example of them allowing tweak would be the Rams, as they unveiled the new unis with a block font. then went to the current font the next year, and removed the side panels in year three. Still, replicas had the Rams' custom font in year one, unlike the gamers, and it could be argued that dropping the side panel was a very minor thing.

Like their relocation rules, I'm sure the uniform rules can be amended on a case-by-case basis. That being said, I can promise you that pants haven nothing to do with it. That's because the NFL doesn't sell replica pants, and there are no manufacturers complaining they have 100,000 unsold pairs of Browns pants sitting in a warehouse. The Browns could come out in gray pants for 16 games next year if the wanted, and I don't think the NFL would have an issue.

However, since jerseys are sold to fans, and are a huge money industry, there would be an issue with changing the Browns' numbers. Nike is going to be pissed that they have thousands of un-sellable orange-numbered jerseys sitting in a warehouse because of the change. Sports Authority is going to be pissed that a bunch of jerseys they recently ordered will have to be discounted because they are no longer current. The absolute only way the Browns change the numbers next year is if the NFL determines they are illegible. Otherwise, they're here to stay.

I think you're right He filed a $750 million antitrust lawsuit against the league. It was this legal maneuver that put the Cowboys on the ground to becoming the most valuable NFL franchise. In 2013, Forbes valued the team at a league-wide high of $2,300 million.

With portions of its lawsuit dismissed, Jones’ antitrust lawsuit motivated the NFL to do one thing: Settle. The settlement agreement Jones reached with the NFL allowed Texas Stadium Corporation to maintain its contracts with American Express, Pepsi and Nike. It also provided every other NFL team the opportunity to sign their own stadium sponsorship agreements. Arguably, though, Jones was the big winner of the settlement agreement, as he also retained the right for the Cowboys to enter into their own licensing agreements. It is this right that allows the Cowboys to create merchandise apart from the NFL’s licensing agreements.

There was a huge backlash over the Jags' new helmets and they kept them for another year. A quick and effective fix would be to pick eith ther gold or flat black for the entire helmet. The team has to know how much fans hate the new helmet. It's everyone too, not just on this forum.

My guess is, they were not allowed to fix their mistake.

.

With due respect to you both, I believe that you're both incorrect. NFL merchandising was really taking off just as we were entering the 90s (over 20 yrs ago). Jerry Jones was not happy with the NFL merchandising plan where profits were split evenly among the then 31 teams for sales on NFL team apparel and Stadium advertisement income. The Cowboys then boycotted NFL merchandising in 1995 (soon after NE overhauled their entire brand) by having their entire sideline personnel including coaches, players, administrators from wearing any of the NFL merchandise. Instead they went they entire 1995 season and a bit longer wearing blank navy blue or white shirts with no logos at all.

Doesn't anybody remember that?

At that time Dallas was far outselling all the other 30 teams, and their stadium advertisment income far exceeded all 30 other teams, and Jones didn't want to split those profits evenly.

JJones then filed that above-mentioned antitrust lawsuit against the NFL. Jones’ antitrust lawsuit motivated the NFL to do one thing, settle!. The settlement agreement Jones reached with the NFL allowed the Cowboys and Texas Stadium to maintain its own contracts with companies like American Express, Pepsi, Nike, etc. The settlement agreement gave the right for the Cowboys to enter into their own licensing agreements. It is that settlement that allowed the Cowboys to create NFL merchandise apparel to be set apart from the NFL’s licensing agreements including team mechandise and apparel. But again, beforehand JJ forbid all Dallas personnel to boycott from wearing any NFL team apparel.

That leads me back to the Browns. If they were to summon the league to change the brown jersey numbers to white, I seriously doubt the NFL would deny them. The NFL recently changed their own logo, slightly different font and downgraded the amount of stars, all due to the fact that with less stars it can be better seen for both HDTV and other graphic reasons. We're actually living in the same era now as we were when the Patriots changed their branding/colors, so I just don't buy it that they can't get them corrected. Back in the mid-90s when NE did it those were the earlier days of this big NFL team apparel era and we've all seen how it quickly evolved into a income monster for the NFL.

With all the money that both Nike and the Cowboys are making, I seriously doubt they'd take a financial beating even by selling the remaining Browns jerseys with orange numbers at a price in the area of their cost. A helmet and a jersey are 2 totally different issues to consider. I've seen several teams make tweaks to their jerseys during this 5-year policy the NFL has. Mostly every team that had that 'toilet seat' collar in 2012 had Nike get rid of it going in to 2013 (Saints still have it, very odd), and that's only 1 example. Buffalo did not like the angular sleeve striping during the 2011 change and had them leveled off the following season. I could continue on when it comes to jerseys, but I think I made my point. I don't believe things are 'that' different from 20 years ago when it pertains to this issue.

[TheOldRoman]

I don't think I am wrong. You said that teams could make changes to jersey numbers, but not pants for some reason. Pants! Whatever happened in the past, the league has control over nearly everything now outside of stadium revenue and local advertising (and I'm sure they even have a muscle to flex there if a team got hooked up with undesirables, such as a strip-club or something silly). Teams buy in because the league allows them to make boatloads of money. The Browns agreed with the NFL's process and followed its procedures for changing uniforms. That's why it took them and Nike two years to come up with this pile or crap.

There wouldn't be any issue with the Browns changing pants because they don't sell team pants. But there absolutely would be an issue with changing numbers on a jersey after probably a million have gone into production and stores are stocked with them. I don't care what the Patriots did twenty years ago. Yes, sports apparel was huge then, but it wasn't billion dollar contract huge. The league isn't going to let a team take a mulligan on something they spent two years working on and have sent out the manufacturers. The league changed its logo for the first time in close to 50 years, and it was likely a painstaking process in which it tested visibility of the logo across many different media. After going through two years an several million dollars in development on the Browns' uniforms, they're not going to let the team change them because they changed their minds. The numbers will only change if the Browns argue they're illegible and the league agrees. And that very well might happen, because the numbers are illegible. But if it does happen, someone is getting fired in the league office because it will cost them millions, and because someone from the league approved the jerseys after visual tests with the Browns and Nike.

[GFB]

I don't think I am wrong. (followed by words)

Honestly, this could every single post on this forum.

[TheOldRoman]

Yes. That's the edited version to be more civil.

[ARTnSocal]

Pants was never something that I was debating on, and I never stated that the Browns can change their jersey number color for sure. I stated it was possible if they were to request league permission.

I was only making it a point how New England changed the color of their jersey numbers in the 2nd year of their mid-90s rebrand, and then they changed the jersey numbers again in the 3rd year, this time to an italic styled font. All I stated about pants is that they changed the striping pattern in the 2nd year along with changing the color of the face-mask from silver to red.

Anyway, I'm done talking about the Cleveland Browns disasterous uniform changes.

[TheOldRoman]

Specifically, I said definitively that I was *not* wrong, but I felt it implied that you were personally wrong, rather than mistaken, and I felt that it was harshly worded.

And you said that the NFL rule (which none of us have seen) allows for tweaks, but says that if there is a new pants color selected, it must be used for five years.

But we don't necessarily disagree here, but I don't feel something the Patriots did over 20 years ago proves that this change can happen. I just don't think the NFL would set the precedent of allowing the Browns to say "We F'd up, these are horrible" when the league and team invested millions in the process. I think they would only allow a change next year if the league agrees that the numbers are illegible, even though the league itself previously gave its approval for these to take the field after viewing them in stadium and on film in different lighting conditions.

[Jungle Jim]

Doesn't anybody remember that?

At that time Dallas was far outselling all the other 30 teams, and their stadium advertisment income far exceeded all 30 other teams, and Jones didn't want to split those profits evenly.

JJones then filed that above-mentioned antitrust lawsuit against the NFL. Jones’ antitrust lawsuit motivated the NFL to do one thing, settle!. The settlement agreement Jones reached with the NFL allowed the Cowboys and Texas Stadium to maintain its own contracts with companies like American Express, Pepsi, Nike, etc. The settlement agreement gave the right for the Cowboys to enter into their own licensing agreements. It is that settlment that allowed the Cowboys to create NFL merchandise apparel to be set apart from the NFL’s licensing agreements including team mechandise and apparel.

I remember, and it's the reason the Cowboys have been among my least-favorite teams since. I have nothing against the fans, players, or coaches. It's all about Jerry Jones.

[ConcreteCharlie]

I think you're wrong here. You can't look at what the NFL allowed 20 years ago. Branding and merchandising wasn't then what it has become. A better example of them allowing tweak would be the Rams, as they unveiled the new unis with a block font. then went to the current font the next year, and removed the side panels in year three. Still, replicas had the Rams' custom font in year one, unlike the gamers, and it could be argued that dropping the side panel was a very minor thing.

Like their relocation rules, I'm sure the uniform rules can be amended on a case-by-case basis. That being said, I can promise you that pants haven nothing to do with it. That's because the NFL doesn't sell replica pants, and there are no manufacturers complaining they have 100,000 unsold pairs of Browns pants sitting in a warehouse. The Browns could come out in gray pants for 16 games next year if the wanted, and I don't think the NFL would have an issue.

However, since jerseys are sold to fans, and are a huge money industry, there would be an issue with changing the Browns' numbers. Nike is going to be pissed that they have thousands of un-sellable orange-numbered jerseys sitting in a warehouse because of the change. Sports Authority is going to be pissed that a bunch of jerseys they recently ordered will have to be discounted because they are no longer current. The absolute only way the Browns change the numbers next year is if the NFL determines they are illegible. Otherwise, they're here to stay.

I think you're right He filed a $750 million antitrust lawsuit against the league. It was this legal maneuver that put the Cowboys on the ground to becoming the most valuable NFL franchise. In 2013, Forbes valued the team at a league-wide high of $2,300 million.

With portions of its lawsuit dismissed, Jones’ antitrust lawsuit motivated the NFL to do one thing: Settle. The settlement agreement Jones reached with the NFL allowed Texas Stadium Corporation to maintain its contracts with American Express, Pepsi and Nike. It also provided every other NFL team the opportunity to sign their own stadium sponsorship agreements. Arguably, though, Jones was the big winner of the settlement agreement, as he also retained the right for the Cowboys to enter into their own licensing agreements. It is this right that allows the Cowboys to create merchandise apart from the NFL’s licensing agreements.

There was a huge backlash over the Jags' new helmets and they kept them for another year. A quick and effective fix would be to pick eith ther gold or flat black for the entire helmet. The team has to know how much fans hate the new helmet. It's everyone too, not just on this forum.

My guess is, they were not allowed to fix their mistake.

.

With due respect to you both, I believe that you're both incorrect. NFL merchandising was really taking off just as we were entering the 90s (over 20 yrs ago). Jerry Jones was not happy with the NFL merchandising plan where profits were split evenly among the then 31 teams for sales on NFL team apparel and Stadium advertisement income. The Cowboys then boycotted NFL merchandising in 1995 (soon after NE overhauled their entire brand) by having their entire sideline personnel including coaches, players, administrators from wearing any of the NFL merchandise. Instead they went they entire 1995 season and a bit longer wearing blank navy blue or white shirts with no logos at all.

Doesn't anybody remember that?

At that time Dallas was far outselling all the other 30 teams, and their stadium advertisment income far exceeded all 30 other teams, and Jones didn't want to split those profits evenly.

JJones then filed that above-mentioned antitrust lawsuit against the NFL. Jones’ antitrust lawsuit motivated the NFL to do one thing, settle!. The settlement agreement Jones reached with the NFL allowed the Cowboys and Texas Stadium to maintain its own contracts with companies like American Express, Pepsi, Nike, etc. The settlement agreement gave the right for the Cowboys to enter into their own licensing agreements. It is that settlement that allowed the Cowboys to create NFL merchandise apparel to be set apart from the NFL’s licensing agreements including team mechandise and apparel. But again, beforehand JJ forbid all Dallas personnel to boycott from wearing any NFL team apparel.

That leads me back to the Browns. If they were to summon the league to change the brown jersey numbers to white, I seriously doubt the NFL would deny them. The NFL recently changed their own logo, slightly different font and downgraded the amount of stars, all due to the fact that with less stars it can be better seen for both HDTV and other graphic reasons. We're actually living in the same era now as we were when the Patriots changed their branding/colors, so I just don't buy it that they can't get them corrected. Back in the mid-90s when NE did it those were the earlier days of this big NFL team apparel era and we've all seen how it quickly evolved into a income monster for the NFL.

With all the money that both Nike and the Cowboys are making, I seriously doubt they'd take a financial beating even by selling the remaining Browns jerseys with orange numbers at a price in the area of their cost. A helmet and a jersey are 2 totally different issues to consider. I've seen several teams make tweaks to their jerseys during this 5-year policy the NFL has. Mostly every team that had that 'toilet seat' collar in 2012 had Nike get rid of it going in to 2013 (Saints still have it, very odd), and that's only 1 example. Buffalo did not like the angular sleeve striping during the 2011 change and had them leveled off the following season. I could continue on when it comes to jerseys, but I think I made my point. I don't believe things are 'that' different from 20 years ago when it pertains to this issue.

Are those blank navy shirts the ones you're talking about?

[WavePunter]

I think we're mixing issues here.. I don't think the NFL cares about Dick's or Sports Authority, or any other jersey retailer.. The NFL has already made money on all those jerseys, whether the retailers sell them with a huge markup or at cost.. If anything, changing the jersey numbers would INCREASE revenue and sales for the NFL because fans would feel obligated to purchase the current jersey.. Not to mention, it would effectively reinforce the idea that "this jersey is a safe purchase because they made changes, but kept the same basic design, so the team will obviously stick with it for a while".. Kind of like how people wait til after a beta test or after the first generation of a product is released to purchase, so the bugs can get worked out..

In fact, I think the rule itself is part of the marketing strategy.. The rule essentially hurts NFL revenue by limiting the number of jersey styles fans will buy, so the rule could be a detriment to the league's revenue, however, the rule instills some confidence and security in the fans' mind when they're making the jersey purchase.. So, the NFL can make fans think there is a rule protecting their jersey purchase, when in reality, they can sign off on whatever jerseys changes they choose and drive more sales..

[guest23]

The league decided to create nfl properties in the 90's to protect owners from ruining their respective franchise brands (as best they can) and ultimately maximize share nearly all revenue as a cartel/collective (dallas excluded). If either the league or an owner feels that they made an error with one of their redesigns they have the ability to petition, evaluate and decide whether or not to make any out of cycle changes and also to determine if any financial penalties will be required for doing so. There are also numerous instances of owners going rogue to force the league to make a decision.

[CLEstones]

As a fan of symmetry, especially in uniforms. This sucks. The O/W/O looks like its going to be one of the best uniforms in the league (color-wise). However, the O/B/O looks like its going to be one of the worst looks in the league (color-wise).

Damn it, Cleveland.

[hormone]

I find it amazing no matter how good or bad a uniform looks, it can be a complete fail due to a poor choice of $10 socks (bucs Orange, Browns orange with orange pants, Texans blue with blue pants, any leotard for that matter) or a $20 face mask. (Cards, 49ers, Colts)