MLB 2016 Changes

[VDizzle12]

I actually love the red Indians cap. I remember it being extremely popular when it first came out. The cream uniforms though are a bit boring. I'm  hoping that they use both the block C hats as the primary home and aways, while using Wahoo with the alternate blue jersey. Maybe add a red jersey with blue script?

[AnPheitseog]

I like a cards type deal. hat, with the C primary  with wahoo as an alt hat. 

[Gehrig27]

15 hours ago, JosiahWVU said:

Why!? That's all I can say!

 

I love the matte helmets; they have that great old-time baseball feel to them and it's a change I've been advocating for a while now. Weren't the Pirates the first team to make the switch? I thought they looked great. Besides, Mickey approves of the matte:

Now, If we want to discuss the aesthetic merit of air vents and cool-flo nonsense on today's batting helmets, I'm all ears.

[WavePunter]

I hate the Indians' block C cap.. All race-related opinions aside, I feel it's a stronger mark, looks better on their cap, and actually relates more to their nickname.. If it's officially being deemed "tasteless" and racist, and needs to go, then I'd really like to see them find a tasteful way to maintain a link to their nickname, history, and general aesthetic, without resorting to the dull, nondescript, generic, monochrome block C... I make no attempt to defend Chief Wahoo, I just prefer him to the C as far as cap logos go.. I'd love to see a C with a feather or something along those lines

[OnWis97]

23 minutes ago, WavePunter said:

I hate the Indians' block C cap.. All race-related opinions aside, I feel it's a stronger mark, looks better on their cap, and actually relates more to their nickname.. If it's officially being deemed "tasteless" and racist, and needs to go, then I'd really like to see them find a tasteful way to maintain a link to their nickname, history, and general aesthetic, without resorting to the dull, nondescript, generic, monochrome block C... I make no attempt to defend Chief Wahoo, I just prefer him to the C as far as cap logos go.. I'd love to see a C with a feather or something along those lines

Regarding the first bold...you are right that it relates more to the nickname.  But, regarding both bolds, is that important?  Most cap logos relate more to the city than the nickname.  Baseball is the most traditional sport and marking the hat to represent the city is the tradition.  So from that standpoint, a "C" makes much more sense.  Their hat represents a team we call "Cleveland" like the Red Sox hat represents a team we call "Boston."

 

I understand that there's value to mixing it up (Blue Jays, White Sox, Orioles, A's, Twins (depending on your interpretation), Rockies, Brewers BiG, etc.) but is it for any reason important that Cleveland, in particular, have a nickname-related cap logo?  We actually have a decent mix.

 

I don't love the "C" caps either. It's the lack of contrast between the red and blue.  I think they need a white outline.  At that point, I think it's roughly an average cap.

[WavePunter]

10 minutes ago, OnWis97 said:

Regarding the first bold...you are right that it relates more to the nickname.  But, regarding both bolds, is that important?  Most cap logos relate more to the city than the nickname.  Baseball is the most traditional sport and marking the hat to represent the city is the tradition.  So from that standpoint, a "C" makes much more sense.  Their hat represents a team we call "Cleveland" like the Red Sox hat represents a team we call "Boston."

 

I understand that there's value to mixing it up (Blue Jays, White Sox, Orioles, A's, Twins (depending on your interpretation), Rockies, Brewers BiG, etc.) but is it for any reason important that Cleveland, in particular, have a nickname-related cap logo?  We actually have a decent mix.

 

I don't love the "C" caps either. It's the lack of contrast between the red and blue.  I think they need a white outline.  At that point, I think it's roughly an average cap.

Do they absolutely need a caricature of an Indian on their cap? No.. But a dull, boring, nondescript block C doesn't do much for the city or the club.. Many of the traditional city-related monogram caps are more directly related to their city due to the city having a two-word name (New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles).. Many of the others at least tie the font and/or design to their nickname or the city's area (Rangers using western font, Diamondbacks having diamond pattern on A, Brewers with beer-esque font and barley/wheat underline, Marlins with very Miami/south beach appropriate M, etc).. Even teams like the Red Sox, Phillies, and Braves have enough character within their font to help distinguish them as almost a "logo" and not just a monogram..

Again, I'm not opposed to the Indians using a C, I just want them to use a good one.. As it stands, Wahoo is tied to the team's history and is a solid cap logo (limited colors, not overly detailed, easily recognizable), and is far superior to the monochrome block C that almost blurs into the navy background of the hat.. It just seems like they were in a hurry to jump onto anything less offensive, that they settled on the most generic, boring, simple choice.. But they haven't even abandoned Wahoo.. That's my issue.. If you're going to jump on the PC train and ditch your 50 year old logo for something less offensive, then do it.. Don't keep it around as an alternate and sleeve patch that remains your organization's primary identifier.. A well thought out, native American inspired C would be a far better alternative to the block C, and possibly even capable of replacing Wahoo as the recognizable, marketable brand identity.. 

[AstroCree]

Are you in favor of bringing back the "I" cap?

[AstroCree]

Are the Mets cutting down on the Blue Jerseys? I don't see them wearing it as much as last year.

[AstroCree]

Maybe they should put a feather against C logo.

[Gothamite]

27 minutes ago, insert name said:

Are the Mets cutting down on the Blue Jerseys? I don't see them wearing it as much as last year.

 

I sure as hell hope so. Between that and ditching the offensive camo, the Mets could have made the best upgrade of any team this season. 

[Anubis2051]

On 5/31/2016 at 8:46 AM, SilverBullet1929 said:

This is brilliant. This is absolutely gonna change my entire experience the next time I visit Magic Kingdom. I'm not even an Astros fan but I might get some Astros gear and wear it that day.

 

Why thank you. I think for me a part of it is that both are born out of that same 50s/60s futurism period, so they should share some similar ascetics. 

[phutmasterflex]

1 hour ago, insert name said:

Are you in favor of bringing back the "I" cap?

They only wore this with the vests with Wahoo's head on the left chest. And only in that sense it worked for this team. I love the cap but it has to be paired with that vest to really give the entire uniform the right look IMO

[WavePunter]

4 hours ago, insert name said:

Are you in favor of bringing back the "I" cap?

I am vehemently against teams using a monogram representing their nickname.. The A's get a pass because that's essentially their nickname spelled out (since they're known as the "A's" and it's not just an A.. Same goes for the Orioles, even though I hate that cap, and the White Sox actually spell the whole thing out to avoid confusion).. The Twins are also in a unique situation to get a free pass, but off the top of my head, that's about it.. The Rockies' CR is awful, as is the Diamondbacks' D logo (decent logo I guess, but unusable imo).. Monograms should reflect the location, while nicknames are reflected by the imagery of logos.. Sure, you have the occasional rare example of a team like the Buffalo Bills that kinda buck the trend in the opposite way, but as a general rule, letters on caps should always represent the city.. Same with letters on a football helmet (unless it's text that spells out the nickname, although I still don't like that).. 

 

So I guess the short answer is No, I'm not in favor of bringing back the "I" cap..

[WavePunter]

4 hours ago, insert name said:

Maybe they should put a feather against C logo.

Something along these lines, but cleaner, and in a slightly more cap-friendly font is what I had in mind..

[Fassy]

Being a Nationals fan, I'm okay with the "C" being the primary logo. Obviously, the Nats use the curly "W" on all of their hats. However, I really wish the Indians would keep the Chief Wahoo logo for home games and move to a "C" on the cap for road games. I like the idea of a feather with the "C" logo, like the "K" logo on the hat of the old Kinston, NC Indians. That was a great design. 

 

Getting rid of Chief Wahoo just seems criminal to me. I don't know the whole back story, but are Native Americans offended by the cartoon logo?

[Gothamite]

17 minutes ago, Fassy said:

Getting rid of Chief Wahoo just seems criminal to me. I don't know the whole back story, but are Native Americans offended by the cartoon logo?

 

Yes.  And really, it's not very hard to see why.

 

 

We wouldn't defend a team using a Sambo-like character, and it's hard to defend Wahoo either. 

 

 

If there's a case to be made for the nickname, there just isn't one for the logo.  I too have a warm nostalgic feeling for it, but objectively I recognize that it's racist garbage best left in the past. 

[WavePunter]

15 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

Yes.  And really, it's not very hard to see why.

 

 

We wouldn't defend a team using a Sambo-like character, and it's hard to defend Wahoo either. 

 

 

If there's a case to be made for the nickname, there just isn't one for the logo.  I too have a warm nostalgic feeling for it, but objectively I recognize that it's racist garbage best left in the past. 

I assure you, I do not ask this to start a huge debate.. This is a legitimate question.. What is really so offensive about it? I understand the comically exaggerated features, common to all caricatures, may be overly stereotypical and a "low blow" of sorts, but the smile, teeth, eyes, and hair are really very neutral.. The nose and feather are really about the only single items I can identify (other than red skin tone) that suggest it's a native American.. And if that's the case, can it be cleaned up to correct the exaggerated features and become more tasteful? So many other caricature mascots are equally ridiculous (fighting Irish, pistol Pete, etc), and although they aren't representative of entire races, literally no one is offended by those.. So, I am truly curious as to the specifics of why it's considered to be so offensive. (Please don't read any of this as snarky, sarcastic, or disingenuous in any way, I'm truly very open to hearing this, as it's a hotly debated issue that affects me exactly ZERO on a personal level, so I have no emotional investment on either side of the argument)

[kroywen]

1 minute ago, WavePunter said:

I assure you, I do not ask this to start a huge debate.. This is a legitimate question.. What is really so offensive about it? I understand the comically exaggerated features, common to all caricatures, may be overly stereotypical and a "low blow" of sorts, but the smile, teeth, eyes, and hair are really very neutral.. The nose and feather are really about the only single items I can identify (other than red skin tone) that suggest it's a native American.. And if that's the case, can it be cleaned up to correct the exaggerated features and become more tasteful? So many other caricature mascots are equally ridiculous (fighting Irish, pistol Pete, etc), and although they aren't representative of entire races, literally no one is offended by those.. So, I am truly curious as to the specifics of why it's considered to be so offensive. (Please don't read any of this as snarky, sarcastic, or disingenuous in any way, I'm truly very open to hearing this, as it's a hotly debated issue that affects me exactly ZERO on a personal level, so I have no emotional investment on either side of the argument)

The parts in bold are exactly why people find it offensive. It is a caricature based on stereotypes of Native Americans, and its skin tone calls to mind a terrible racial slur (which itself persists as the name of a sports team).

 

And unlike those other caricatures, it does represent an entire race of people - specifically one that's historically been marginalized in this country (and worse yet, subject to a brutal genocide by a man who happens to be memorialized on our currency to this very day).

[WavePunter]

2 minutes ago, kroywen said:

The parts in bold are exactly why people find it offensive. It is a caricature based on stereotypes of Native Americans, and its skin tone calls to mind a terrible racial slur (which itself persists as the name of a sports team).

 

And unlike those other caricatures, it does represent an entire race of people - specifically one that's historically been marginalized in this country (and worse yet, subject to a brutal genocide by a man who happens to be memorialized on our currency to this very day).

Fair enough, but that doesn't really give me any new information, and the only exaggerated feature specific to indigenous Americans is the nose.. Even with that nose, it could pass as a number of other races or (as sports nicknames go) occupations, such as cowboy.. If the headwear were altered.. And perhaps my struggle to understand is due in part to the fact that I'm not racially or ethnically oppressed, nor were my ancestors (although religiously oppressed), but not understanding makes it even more difficult to, well- understand.. Nobody alive today thinks genocide is ok.. Nor do they support genocide or promote it by supporting a logo.. I guess I'm just struggling to find the significant link that truly affects, offends, and emotionally disturbs people.. And again, if a couple exaggerated features are the problem, can it not be fixed? If the C logo is ok, and the nickname is ok, then a tasteful Indian logo should then also be ok, correct? And if so, why can't we get on that? There's no hate for the Redskins logo, as it's a tasteful representation, but the nickname is the issue.. The Indians are in the opposite boat, where the primary issue is the logo.. Is it that tough to find some middle ground where your tradition and history are preserved, but the racism and offensive imagery are gone?.. I just want to see a scenario that TRULY works and most everyone can be comfortable with the result.

[panthers_2012]

Can we please stop talking about the Chief Wahoo debate? I'm an Indians fan and I'm tired of it. So, here's my opinion about the Indians dropping their cream alts. I'll admit,when they first released the jersey I didn't like the jersey. Since then, they've grown on me and I'm sad to see them go. I would if they'll do a throwback or maybe a red jersey for next season.