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College Basketball 2016: Houston, we have a full court press

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5 hours ago, Webfooter said:

But if you had followed the followed conversation, you would have seen who and what I was talking about.

 

Back to the Pac-12, in a previous post, I did say that the conference has underperformed, mainly Utah and Arizona.  Cal had some unfortunate circumstances in the days and minutes leading up to their Tournament opener that knocked out any chance it had at playing up to its 4 seed.  OSU was not a 7 seed without Tres Tinkle so that's on the NCAA for failing to notice he'd be out and not dropping their seed accordingly.  As for the Utah-Gonzaga game, that was definitely not a good loss but I'm not sure if you can call an 11 seed overrated, especially when most people thought they were underseeded entering the Tournament.

 

Some of us cheer for schools that got seeded lower because of that Pac 12 overseeding.  Maybe that should also be considered.

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One thing I've still yet to understand is why someone (take for example an Oregon fan) will openly root for and support other teams within their conference (in this case the Pac-12) when they are so-called "hated rivals" the other 11 months of the year. To me, this is like having a Patriots fan cheering on the Broncos in the Super Bowl because they both represent the AFC.

 

Could someone please attempt to explain this logic to me?

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On March 21, 2016 at 6:59 PM, Cujo said:

 

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I apologize for being late, but I thank you good sir! :D

 

In response also to DustDevil, yeah, Utah looked like they got hit by a train they didn't know was coming. To be honest, the way the Utes got rolled by Oregon, I really didn't think they had much a chance of even getting to the Elite Eight, let alone any farther. I figured it'd have been Michigan State doing the drubbing, but even after they lost, Utah would've still had Virginia, Iowa State, or heck even Syracuse to run into had they beaten Gonzaga. As much hype as they were getting here (and don't get me wrong, I do like them), I just didn't see them getting very far. 

 

And that isn't to discredit Gonzaga by the way, I just felt the result was inevitable anyways somewhere down the road and well before Houston.

 

P.S: What the heck was wrong with Poeltl? The guy was completely gassed by a minute into the second half. It was super weird. Like, "the Monstars must've taken his skills and stamina" weird.

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Location and familiarity. Even though other PAC 12 teams are rivals, I can justify rooting for them come tournament time/bowl season because they're still west coast (best coast), and I've already seen them so it's nice to at least know who some of the players are. I'd rather see a team I've seen live or have watched closely win a title than a bunch of randos I know little to nothing about. Unless it's the Bruins or Wildcats. I'll ALWAYS root against them, because they're my schools primary rivals (U of A because screw them, and UCLA because they've just pissed me off so many times). It also helps to add a bit of legitimacy to the strength of the conference, too IMO. I've seen some pretty decent ASU teams get absolutely dump trucked by teams like Oregon, and while it sucked, at least I can take solace in the fact that just about everyone else did, too. 

 

Also, because I'd rather root for most PAC 12 teams (minus Arizona and UCLA) than root for the whiny babies in the B1G or ACC. :upside: 

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20 minutes ago, Cujo said:

One thing I've still yet to understand is why someone (take for example an Oregon fan) will openly root for and support other teams within their conference (in this case the Pac-12) when they are so-called "hated rivals" the other 11 months of the year. To me, this is like having a Patriots fan cheering on the Broncos in the Super Bowl because they both represent the AFC.

 

Could someone please attempt to explain this logic to me?

It is the thought that they are more alike than different, especially in the SEC, where they chant after championships. Read Football Study Hall:

 

http://www.footballstudyhall.com/2014/8/22/6056101/why-sec-fans-exist

 

Grantland wrote one too.

http://grantland.com/features/s-e-c-s-e-c-s-e-c/

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1 minute ago, Bucfan56 said:

Location and familiarity.

 

Well then the Red Sox and Yankees should have no problem pulling for eachother each postseason!

 

As a Colorado fan going back several decades, it'd be a cold day in hell before you ever saw me saying "I hope Nebraska wins the National Championship this year." or "Hey, KU hoops wins again! YES!!!"

 

Yea.. I still don't get it. To each their own, I suppose.

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No, because you're overlooking what I just said about primary rivalries. You'd never catch me dead rooting for U of A, and probably UCLA, too. Stanford, Cal, USC, Oregon, Washington, Utah, Colorado, ect? Meh. They get in the way of my team's success at times, but they don't illicit enough of a negative response from me to  absolutely HATE them. In fact, The Bay Area, Southern California, Eugene, Seattle, and Boulder? All pretty cool places in my book. One of those areas is my home, and I've lived in several other of those areas and really enjoyed it. So, that familiarity is what makes them a positive for me. I have no connection to Colombus, Ohio, for example, so rooting for OSU over Oregon wouldn't be something I'd ever do. 

 

Plus, I could see why you'd never root for Nebraska as they were HUGE rivals with your Buffs, and you don't have any personal connection to Lincoln. But if your Buffs lost to Arizona State? I bet that would be a bit easier. I seem to remember you having quite a bit of fun in Tempe, minus almost getting hit by a train ;) 

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5 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

But if your Buffs lost to Arizona State? I bet that would be a bit easier. I seem to remember you having quite a bit of fun in Tempe, minus almost getting hit by a train ;) 

 

I've got no problem with Tempe. I'd be happy for my friends who attended ASU, yes. B)   They don't lock their Subway restaurants either.

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10 minutes ago, dfwabel said:

It is the thought that they are more alike than different, especially in the SEC, where they chant after championships. Read Football Study Hall:

 

http://www.footballstudyhall.com/2014/8/22/6056101/why-sec-fans-exist

 

Grantland wrote one too.

http://grantland.com/features/s-e-c-s-e-c-s-e-c/

 

I'm in SEC country and this simultaneously baffles me and makes total sense.

 

When your team is a member of what is perceived as being the best conference, it somehow elevates all programs involved. Not that Vanderbilt would wipe the floor with the best of any other conference, but more like "Georgia was 10-3 this year... but 5-3 in the SEC," inferring that the intense intra-conference competition is superior to that of other conferences.

I'm not a fan of any SEC (or ACC, or anything else) program, because I'm not a big fan of college football in general. I'm a fan of Winthrop, a mid/low major basketball program in a mostly low-major conference (Big South)... the polar opposite of the SEC. The Big South is rarely, if ever, going to have more than one team in the NCAA tournament. I'm torn between wanting to see the conference see success via non-Winthrop teams (whether or not that "elevates" the conference as a whole is more than debatable) vs. being selfish and wanting Winthrop to have the only "real" success a Big South team has ever had (a single win in the NCAA tournament). But I think that's a key difference - I'm a fan of a team/conference struggling for recognition and success, not one that's won multiple championships.

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1 hour ago, Cujo said:

One thing I've still yet to understand is why someone (take for example an Oregon fan) will openly root for and support other teams within their conference (in this case the Pac-12) when they are so-called "hated rivals" the other 11 months of the year. To me, this is like having a Patriots fan cheering on the Broncos in the Super Bowl because they both represent the AFC.

 

Could someone please attempt to explain this logic to me?

Because it helps give a sense of legitimacy to a conference the better it does in post-season play, especially if your team happened to beat many of those schools earlier.  Also, you're under the belief that every school is a hated rival when it's more like only 1-2 rivals and a bunch of others you see occasionally.

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Just now, Webfooter said:

Because it helps give a sense of legitimacy to a conference the better it does in post-season play, especially if your team happened to beat many of those schools earlier.  Also, you're under the belief that every school is a hated rival when it's more like only 1-2 rivals and a bunch of others you see occasionally.

 

But you're out here trying to boost/praise other Pac-12 teams, when all but the Ducks were knocked out in epic fashion. I hashed it out in a previous post, the conference was a virtual no-show in this tourney.

 

You're better off distancing your admiration of other Pac-12 teams and just saying Oregon is their own squad, screw the rest.

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31 minutes ago, Cujo said:

 

But you're out here trying to boost/praise other Pac-12 teams, when all but the Ducks were knocked out in epic fashion. I hashed it out in a previous post, the conference was a virtual no-show in this tourney.

 

You're better off distancing your admiration of other Pac-12 teams and just saying Oregon is their own squad, screw the rest.

Why can't I at least stick up for other members of my team's conference when their performance is being used against my own team?  Considering you're a Colorado fan and still somewhat new to the conference, you'll understand sooner or later why I (and many others) back the conference come bowl season or Tournament time as a whole even if I'm only a fan of one school.

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6 hours ago, Cujo said:

 

Well then the Red Sox and Yankees should have no problem pulling for eachother each postseason!

 

As a Colorado fan going back several decades, it'd be a cold day in hell before you ever saw me saying "I hope Nebraska wins the National Championship this year." or "Hey, KU hoops wins again! YES!!!"

 

Yea.. I still don't get it. To each their own, I suppose.

I think there is a difference between college conference "pride" and pro division pride. I think fans of, say, Oregon could feel the rest of the conference's performance reflects somewhat on everyone, somewhat diminishing their accomplishments.  When the Big Ten gets ripped for going 1-7 in bowls, it is (at least in perception) viewed as an indictment on all teams in the conference and it can be suggested that, say, Wisconsin's wins over Purdue, Michigan, and Penn State don't look so hot.  It's probably an over-use of the transitive property, but that's at least part of the mindset.  We also want our conference to be strong.  It bugs me, for example, that the B1G has not won the NCAA tourney since 2000.  That could impact the whole conference in terms of recruiting.  OK, it does not look like it has, at least not a lot, but in theory it could.  

 

To Bucfan's point, I too root for all teams except Minnesota...I don't like being surrounded by fans going crazy over rivals...luckilly that does not happen a lot.

 

An MLB division, or pretty much all pro sports divisions have a lot more schedule integrity.  They also don't rely on rankings...just standings.  The Red Sox doing well does not really reflect one way or the other on the Yankees.  Both teams play the Angles, Astros, and Tigers, whereas in college, Iowa does not likely play Florida State; so we go a bit more "off the field" to make comparisons.

 

For what it's worth, I think there are people that pull for the AL or the NL in the World Series.  Maybe not as much as their used to be before the lines were blurred.  I recall when I was a kid (pulling for the team with the nicer uniform) asking my dad who he was pulling for the the World Series and he said "I always pull for the American League, unless it's the Yankees."  So some of that has existed in the pros, though the AL/NL thing is far different in the "pride" area.  Or at least it used to be.

 

And finally...sports and sports fans are not always rational.  Some even prefer college sports, if you can believe that.

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As much as I want the Pac-12 to do well, I'd rather be flogged then root for Oregon to do well in... just about anything. Why? Because I'm sick and tired of how Oregon has beaten Washington on the football field for the better part of a decade. That anger translates to other sports as well.

 

So, when the Pac-12 lays an egg, it does look bad for the conference... but, as long as Washington doesn't get involved and either Oregon, Oregon State or Washington State are either doing the egg laying or is part of said egg laying, I couldn't care less.

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I agree with whoever said USC's loss can't be held against them. They lost by 1 point in an 8/9 matchup to a Big East school. 

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On 3/22/2016 at 9:01 AM, Bucfan56 said:

No, because you're overlooking what I just said about primary rivalries. You'd never catch me dead rooting for U of A, and probably UCLA, too. Stanford, Cal, USC, Oregon, Washington, Utah, Colorado, ect? Meh. They get in the way of my team's success at times, but they don't illicit enough of a negative response from me to  absolutely HATE them. In fact, The Bay Area, Southern California, Eugene, Seattle, and Boulder? All pretty cool places in my book. One of those areas is my home, and I've lived in several other of those areas and really enjoyed it. So, that familiarity is what makes them a positive for me. I have no connection to Colombus, Ohio, for example, so rooting for OSU over Oregon wouldn't be something I'd ever do. 

 

Plus, I could see why you'd never root for Nebraska as they were HUGE rivals with your Buffs, and you don't have any personal connection to Lincoln. But if your Buffs lost to Arizona State? I bet that would be a bit easier. I seem to remember you having quite a bit of fun in Tempe, minus almost getting hit by a train ;) 

Very much this. I wouldn't mind if Stanford and USC lost every single game they played for the rest of their sports history. But Wazzu? Yeah I'd root for them if they aren't playing oregon or oregon state.

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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/kentucky-entire-basketball-team-declaring-221100665.html

So Kentucky decided to do this. I'm wondering if this is Calipari's way of saying the one and done rule is stupid or if he actually wants his players to find out where they stand with the NBA. Granted, if your going to Kentucky now it's pretty much a given you're only staying one year unless you're injured that freshman year. 

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1 hour ago, MJWalker45 said:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/kentucky-entire-basketball-team-declaring-221100665.html

So Kentucky decided to do this. I'm wondering if this is Calipari's way of saying the one and done rule is stupid or if he actually wants his players to find out where they stand with the NBA. Granted, if your going to Kentucky now it's pretty much a given you're only staying one year unless you're injured that freshman year. 

He may be sending the message to future recruits that "I am looking out for your interests; not mine."

 

As long as the players are given good advice from him and their own circles, this rule and Calipari's move here are fine.  I hope it works out so that guys that learn they are unlikely to be first round picks stick around school.  There's nothing wrong with a Ben Simmons going pro now (or out of high school; but different discussion).  It's the guys who declare early and get picked #45 overall and never get that first round money that this hopefully can work for.  This is a great rule; at least I think so.  If Calipari's walk-ons decide to not come back because he's given them some kinda "taste" then I guess it'll backfire.  But I don't see that happening.

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It could be a case of European and Chinese leagues starting to stick their noses out to grab some of these outliers as well. I don't think they'll convince the smart ones but I can see players that are told they won't make it in the NBA bouncing off to EuroLeague teams instead. 

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