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If you could prevent ANY relocation in sports history from happening, which one would you prevent?


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I'd advocate for the return of the Sonics and the Whalers.

 

I would be more curious to see what would happen had the California Golden Seals stuck around (had Charlie O. sold the team to a Bay Area owner). Mostly, I'd want to see how their uniform styles would change over time (as they changed frequently in their short life), and I'd want to see what their continued existence would do to the North Stars. Would the North Stars have folded without the merger with the Barons? Would they have moved earlier/later/not at all? Also, I do wonder if Cleveland would have been considered as one of the anti-WHA expansion markets once the Crusaders folded (which would negate the existence of the Blue Jackets).

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3 hours ago, cmm said:

Quoting myself because I might be right.

http://nyp.st/1KwBm4T

 

Prokhorov spending millions to reno Nassau Coliseum, only to have it with too few seats for hockey?  I mean, are you f'n kidding or what.

Move the Islanders to Hartford.  If anyone in the NY metro area (of all places on Earth) can't afford to build a rink, then writing may be on the wall.

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14 hours ago, 2001mark said:

 

Prokhorov spending millions to reno Nassau Coliseum, only to have it with too few seats for hockey?  I mean, are you f'n kidding or what.

 

Why renovate Nassau Coliseum to meet NHL standards when there is no NHL tenant?

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I think that I would like to reverse the Browns' relocation. The Colts are a possibility, but for them to stay, that would have meant that Elway agreed to play there.

 

In Ernie Accorsi's book , The GM (he was Colt GM when they were trying to get Elway), he claimed that John called him, said that he would play there, and told Ernie that he would call him back when things died down. After that, Ernie said that he made a big mistake: Telling Robert Irsay about the call. Irsay traded him to Denver immediately (the best day in Denver sports history).

 

Accorsi thinks that the Colts would still be in Baltimore if Elway would have played with them.

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18 hours ago, cmm said:

Quoting myself because I might be right.

http://nyp.st/1KwBm4T

Yeah, I think this was more or less what everyone was thinking was going to happen. I think they'll settle for the too few seats tradeoff for having them back in Nassau. Then again I'll believe the Coliseum renovations being done when it's actually factually done given this county's track record

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1 hour ago, DnBronc said:

I think that I would like to reverse the Browns' relocation. The Colts are a possibility, but for them to stay, that would have meant that Elway agreed to play there.

 

In Ernie Accorsi's book , The GM (he was Colt GM when they were trying to get Elway), he claimed that John called him, said that he would play there, and told Ernie that he would call him back when things died down. After that, Ernie said that he made a big mistake: Telling Robert Irsay about the call. Irsay traded him to Denver immediately (the best day in Denver sports history).

 

Accorsi thinks that the Colts would still be in Baltimore if Elway would have played with them.

dont know if they would have stayed in Baltimore much longer then 5 more years (Phoenix and Indianapolis wanted a team i think).  

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Alternate histories are fun so for silly goofs let's say Elway actually deciding to play for the Colts keeps them in Baltimore. That changes everything. The St. Louis Cardinals were now the next team looking to relocate and at the time that would’ve had Indianapolis, Phoenix, Jacksonville, Memphis, and others vying for them.

 

In 84 the Colts chose Indianapolis over Phoenix because they had the best stadium situation at the time and the city was offering a better deal. The team was the primary tenant at a brand new dome and you’d figure if Indy was open the Bidwells would make the same decision as the Irsays. So now you have the St Louis Cardinals becoming the Indianapolis Cardinals.

-        The next relocation/expansion was the Raiders/Rams Los Angeles exodus in 1995, but Al Davis wanted to leave LA long before then. He had a deal to move back to Oakland in 1990, but it fell through. So with an open spot in Phoenix Davis moves the Raiders to Arizona in 1990 and you have the Arizona Raiders who still play in the greater Phoenix area to this day.

-        1995 Expansion process: with Baltimore taken that’s one fewer group bidding for an expansion team, but you still have the same groups and cities looking to get in – St. Louis, Charlotte, Jacksonville, Memphis. Charlotte was the gimme so they get the Panthers. St. Louis’ bids fall apart and Jacksonville stuns everyone is granted a team. So we still get the Panthers and Jaguars in 1995. St. Louis still doesn’t have a team.

-        The Rams are a tricky case in this timeline because that would mean they’d have the whole city to themselves for 5 seasons. Maybe a stadium deal gets worked out in that timeframe, but going off what actually happened and the city not working to secure a new stadium for either team let’s say Georgia Frontierre still moves the team to St. Louis for the 1995 season.

-        1995 season. The Browns and Oilers are both looking for new homes. Baltimore where they wound up is taken, St. Louis is filled by the Rams. That leaves LA open, but these alternate Browns choose not to move there for the same reasons they chose not to move there in our reality. Modell briefly flirts with the idea of Nashville, but spending the 1996, 1997, and 1998 seasons in small temporary venues isn’t going to work for a broke owner. With no viable cities left Modell decides to hold off for at least a year. The Browns draft Ray Lewis. Bud Adams isn’t scared off by the vagabond lameduck seasons in Houston and Memphis and the team finally settles in Nashville in 1998 and their new stadium in 1999. They would play in 4 different home stadiums in 4 straight seasons.  

-        The extra time granted by Modell to the city of Cleveland gives both sides more space to reach a deal to build a new stadium and they’re able to reach an agreement for new Cleveland Browns stadium which opens for the 1999 season. The Browns develop a championship caliber team and win Super Bowl XXXV over the New York Giants with one of the best defenses in NFL history.

 

of course a lot of that is pure speculation. 

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Being from Minnesota, I'd go with the Lakers or the North Stars.  The Lakers were a dynasty in Minneapolis, so it would be cool to still have that franchise here.  But I am not kidding myself into believing they'd be any better than the Wolves.  They'd be the Kings with a richer ancient history.  The weather would still be awful and there'd be some other team in LA getting all the free agents (the Clippers on their own?).  


So I'd have to go with the North Stars.  While the Lakers are way before my time, I grew up with the North Stars and have fond memories of their mediocrity; much fonder than the Wild's mediocrity.  I have no doubt I'd be much more of an NHL fan right now had that relocation never happened.  And, since we are fantasizing here, rather than simply go back to 1993 and keep them in Minnesota, let's go back to 1991 and keep them in the "N-Star" uniform.

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On February 17, 2016 at 7:34 PM, BringBackTheVet said:

 

Don't do that.

 

My vote would go to Seattle.  The Sonics seem to have meant more to that town than the other teams to the other towns.  I can't hold the ownership situation against the fans.  I would just hope they'd come back with better uniforms than their last ones.  I know they were a homage to their title team, but they could have been so much better.

 

Second goes to Hartford.  Without them, we wouldn't have classic movie quotes like "breakfasts come and go, but Hartford?  The Whale?  They only beat Vancouver once, maybe twice in a lifetime."

From one of the best movies of all time, NSFW...

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, pretty easy:

 

-Soccer: Wimbledon to Milton Keynes
-NBA: Charlotte Hornets to New Orleans
-NFL: Los Angeles Raiders to Oakland
-NHL: Quebec Nordiques to Denver
-MLB: New York Gothams to San Francisco ;)

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  • 3 months later...
On 2/23/2016 at 11:17 AM, McCarthy said:

The next relocation/expansion was the Raiders/Rams Los Angeles exodus in 1995, but Al Davis wanted to leave LA long before then. He had a deal to move back to Oakland in 1990, but it fell through. So with an open spot in Phoenix Davis moves the Raiders to Arizona in 1990 and you have the Arizona Raiders who still play in the greater Phoenix area to this day.

 

I don't know if that happens. Al had a market in St. Louis to move to that was wide open (it may be bigger than Phoenix), and he didn't do it. He probably still goes to Oakland by 95.

 

On 2/23/2016 at 11:17 AM, McCarthy said:

1995 Expansion process: with Baltimore taken that’s one fewer group bidding for an expansion team, but you still have the same groups and cities looking to get in – St. Louis, Charlotte, Jacksonville, Memphis. Charlotte was the gimme so they get the Panthers. St. Louis’ bids fall apart and Jacksonville stuns everyone is granted a team. So we still get the Panthers and Jaguars in 1995. St. Louis still doesn’t have a team.

 

If Indy is still open, you have to figure that they are a strong candidate for expansion with the Hoosier Dome available. I actually think that they would have been chosen over Jacksonville because of the dome. What would that team have been called? Well, Racers and 500's are the prime candidates. Mohicans may also have been considered (that tribe used to be in the State of Indiana), but at the time, political correctness was gaining more and more of a foothold, so it may have been an unlikely choice. 

 

On 2/23/2016 at 11:17 AM, McCarthy said:

The Rams are a tricky case in this timeline because that would mean they’d have the whole city to themselves for 5 seasons. Maybe a stadium deal gets worked out in that timeframe, but going off what actually happened and the city not working to secure a new stadium for either team let’s say Georgia Frontierre still moves the team to St. Louis for the 1995 season.

 

-        1995 season. The Browns and Oilers are both looking for new homes. Baltimore where they wound up is taken, St. Louis is filled by the Rams. That leaves LA open, but these alternate Browns choose not to move there for the same reasons they chose not to move there in our reality. Modell briefly flirts with the idea of Nashville, but spending the 1996, 1997, and 1998 seasons in small temporary venues isn’t going to work for a broke owner. With no viable cities left Modell decides to hold off for at least a year. The Browns draft Ray Lewis. Bud Adams isn’t scared off by the vagabond lameduck seasons in Houston and Memphis and the team finally settles in Nashville in 1998 and their new stadium in 1999. They would play in 4 different home stadiums in 4 straight seasons.  

 

-        The extra time granted by Modell to the city of Cleveland gives both sides more space to reach a deal to build a new stadium and they’re able to reach an agreement for new Cleveland Browns stadium which opens for the 1999 season. The Browns develop a championship caliber team and win Super Bowl XXXV over the New York Giants with one of the best defenses in NFL history.

 

I agree with you about the Rams. That would have been the only city Georgia would have moved to. As for Modell and the Browns, I wonder if he would have had to sell some of the team to Al Lerner to make that happen. 

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Well, since this thread was already resurrected, I'l contribute. I'd go back in time to prevent Jeffrey Loria from ever owning an MLB franchise. That would stop the dirty Red Sox-Expos ownership swap, and in turn, would prevent that weasel from ruining the Florida/Miami Marlins.

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On 2/18/2016 at 8:19 PM, Gothamite said:

Brooklyn Dodgers. 

 

Really tore a hole in the heart of the city, this magnificent baseball city.   And if Koufax had come onto the scene when they were still in Brooklyn - would have been amazing. 

 

For that to happen, you would have to have the Washington Senators rep (at the 1955 World Series) meet with the LA city official (without O'Malley's knowledge), being offered the same deal (for Chavez Ravine) that O'Malley was offered, and accepting it. Then, if the Senators move to LA for the 1956 or 57 season, the Dodgers may have reluctantly decided to take the Shea Stadium offer while the Giants go to Minneapolis. 

 

Then, you may see expansion in this timeline by 1959 (to get another AL team out west to compete with the newly named LA Angels). Washington and SF get teams in the American League, and in the NL, they choose Houston and LA (to give the City of Angels one team in both leagues). 

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that's one scenario, but it needn't be the only one.  

 

Moses could also have agreed to build O'Malley's Atlantic Yards stadium downtown.  Or the Los Angeles city fathers might have been less able to evict all the homeowners from Chavez Ravine.  Or the Pacific Coast League might have been successful in their bid to jump up to the majors, which would have introduced a half-dozen West Coast teams at once, killing both relocation and expansion efforts. 

 

There are many ways that relocation might have been stymied. 

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55 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

Moses could also have agreed to build O'Malley's Atlantic Yards stadium downtown.  Or the Los Angeles city fathers might have been less able to evict all the homeowners from Chavez Ravine.  Or the Pacific Coast League might have been successful in their bid to jump up to the majors, which would have introduced a half-dozen West Coast teams at once, killing both relocation and expansion efforts. 

 

There are many ways that relocation might have been stymied. 

 

Or maybe Pearl Harbor doesn't happen, and the St. Louis Browns are approved by the AL to move to LA for the 1942 season. I think that the move was supposed to be voted on the same day that the attacks happened. 

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