2016 NHL Off-Season Thread

[The_Admiral]

On 8/1/2016 at 2:02 PM, BeerGuyJordan said:

I don't think the League is going to bend over backwards to keep the Islanders where they are, like they did (against all reason) for Phoenix.

ya think wrong

[BeerGuyJordan]

9 minutes ago, habsfan1 said:

 

Agreed.

 

Your team is very fortunate. I'll be rooting for the Preds in the playoffs, if the Habs are out.

Thanks, I'll totally be pulling for Weber and the Habs, as long as it isn't counter to the Preds' interest.

 

Weber is still an elite defenseman with some good hockey left in the tank, and he'll be great to have as a mentor for your young blue-liners. That being said, I just can't believe Montreal made this deal, especially when you look at the long-term implications.

 

9 minutes ago, the admiral said:

ya think wrong

 

I think they'll put effort into trying to keep them there, but why would they go to the lengths they have with Phoenix? They already have the market, and the relocation offers an opportunity to either solidify a traditional market, or capture a new one.

 

If they had to jump through hoops to keep the Isles in NYC, it just doesn't make sense to do it, based on what the League has shown to be their priorities.

[The_Admiral]

Why are we talking about the Islanders being in trouble in the first place? They're either getting fifty million dollars a year to play in the Hipster Omni or new ownership is working to develop a new building of their own, all while getting a huge cable TV deal. This is a team that was once owned by a guy who pretended to live in a model home. They haven't been on such solid ground in years. You've been wishcasting the Isles or Devils moving for weeks now and it's just not gonna happen.

[habsfan1]

18 minutes ago, BeerGuyJordan said:

Thanks, I'll totally be pulling for Weber and the Habs, as long as it isn't counter to the Preds' interest.

 

Weber is still an elite defenseman with some good hockey left in the tank, and he'll be great to have as a mentor for your young blue-liners. That being said, I just can't believe Montreal made this deal, especially when you look at the long-term implications.

 

To put it brief, power fell into the wrong hands. Someone didn't like his outspoken personality. So they flipped the whole community off by trading him out of selfishness, despite leading the team in points and merch sales.

 

Plus, MTL has a history of bad trades, Chelios, Roy, Halak, Subban. What they're doing makes the team look horrible. But fans will pay for tickets anyways, right...

[BeerGuyJordan]

19 minutes ago, habsfan1 said:

 

To put it brief, power fell into the wrong hands. Someone didn't like his outspoken personality. So they flipped the whole community off by trading him out of selfishness, despite leading the team in points and merch sales.

 

Plus, MTL has a history of bad trades, Chelios, Roy, Halak, Subban. What they're doing makes the team look horrible. But fans will pay for tickets anyways, right...

I guess that's the curse of being in an OTH city, where the team has no issues with attendance, the management has the security to piss off the fans. In a city like Nashville, the management wouldn't give the fans the bird like that.

 

Sure, a lot of fans were upset that Weber left, but the big picture folks get it. I suspect a lot of the others will get over it after they see Subban play a bit.

[IceCap]

On August 2, 2016 at 5:16 PM, BeerGuyJordan said:

I guess that's the curse of being in an OTH city, where the team has no issues with attendance, the management has the security to piss off the fans. In a city like Nashville, the management wouldn't give the fans the bird like that.

 

Sure, a lot of fans were upset that Weber left, but the big picture folks get it. I suspect a lot of the others will get over it after they see Subban play a bit.

So more "sunbelt fans are better" spiels? Nah.

"Big picture fans got it." No crap they did. They, beyond a shadow of a doubt, saw their team improve on the blue line. 

Congrats. Your GM waited for another GM to do something stupid, and you recognized that your team benefited.

 

"I guess we're just better than those schmucks in Montreal who will watch anything"? Again, nah.

 

 

[The_Admiral]

Said it before, say it again, the real hockey elitists are the ones without prior generations of well-meaning knucklehead fans to keep everyone grounded. I think the only people who like the Hurricanes are softboys whose parents work at IBM. Also, good to know that letting a general manager fail to win the second round for 17 years is "respecting the fanbase."

[BeerGuyJordan]

5 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

So more "sunbelt fans are better" spiels? Nah.

"Big picture fans got it." No crap they did. They, beyond a shadow of a doubt, saw their team improve on the blue line. 

Congrats. Your GM waited for another GM to do something stupid, and you recognized that your team benefited.

 

"I guess we're just better than those schmucks in Montreal who will watch anything"? Again, nah.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, the admiral said:

Said it before, say it again, the real hockey elitists are the ones without prior generations of well-meaning knucklehead fans to keep everyone grounded. I think the only people who like the Hurricanes are softboys whose parents work at IBM. Also, good to know that letting a general manager fail to win the second round for 17 years is "respecting the fanbase."

 

Christ, are you two really just bitter and looking for a fight? My comments had nothing to do with putting down OTH or talking up sunbelt. 

 

My point was that, hand-in-hand with the many upsides to the fanbase of a city like Toronto or Montreal is the downside that management can pretty much run the franchise into the ground, flip the fans the bird, and still sell out pretty much every game. Even if they lose a few fans who regularly attend games, there are plenty more waiting in the wings. The curse I referred to was that the owners and managers don't feel like they are accountable to the fans.

 

In Nashville and rougly half to two-thirds of the league, the fanbase isn't large enough/strong enough for the management to risk pissing off the fans over something as petty as why the Habs booted Subban. I wasn't suggesting Nashville's front office is above it (though I would hope they are), but rather that they lack the security, perceived or legitimate, to pull a stunt like that. 

 

If anything, I was saying that I feel for fanbases like Edmonton, Toronto, Montreal and Boston, where the hockey culture is almost too strong for fans to really be able to effectively hold the management responsible for screw-ups.

[Cosmic]

11 minutes ago, BeerGuyJordan said:

 

 

Christ, are you two really just bitter and looking for a fight? My comments had nothing to do with putting down OTH or talking up sunbelt. 

 

My point was that, hand-in-hand with the many upsides to the fanbase of a city like Toronto or Montreal is the downside that management can pretty much run the franchise into the ground, flip the fans the bird, and still sell out pretty much every game. Even if they lose a few fans who regularly attend games, there are plenty more waiting in the wings. The curse I referred to was that the owners and managers don't feel like they are accountable to the fans.

 

In Nashville and rougly half to two-thirds of the league, the fanbase isn't large enough/strong enough for the management to risk pissing off the fans over something as petty as why the Habs booted Subban. I wasn't suggesting Nashville's front office is above it (though I would hope they are), but rather that they lack the security, perceived or legitimate, to pull a stunt like that. 

 

If anything, I was saying that I feel for fanbases like Edmonton, Toronto, Montreal and Boston, where the hockey culture is almost too strong for fans to really be able to effectively hold the management responsible for screw-ups.

I just don't think there's any evidence to support your claims.  Those teams have all (Montreal least so) done stuff to get better, it just hasn't worked yet. You think there's no pressure from the fans in Toronto?!  Only looking at ticket sales is short-sighted.  You'd probably lump the Sabres in with the "too dedicated" crowd, but I've seen it first hand. When things go south, it's everywhere.  Papers, radio, TV, water cooler.  People harass the GM at the grocery store.  That puts pressure on people!  You act almost as if teams are choosing to be bad, and they could choose to be good if they just cared more about getting fans through the door.  Every team in the NHL is trying to be good.  Hell, even the Coyotes will be over the cap floor without the Datsyuk and Pronger contracts. If Edmonton started playing to 10,000 fans every night three years ago, would they be any better on the ice today? No.

[BeerGuyJordan]

5 hours ago, Cosmic said:

I just don't think there's any evidence to support your claims.  Those teams have all (Montreal least so) done stuff to get better, it just hasn't worked yet. You think there's no pressure from the fans in Toronto?!  Only looking at ticket sales is short-sighted.  You'd probably lump the Sabres in with the "too dedicated" crowd, but I've seen it first hand. When things go south, it's everywhere.  Papers, radio, TV, water cooler.  People harass the GM at the grocery store.  That puts pressure on people!  You act almost as if teams are choosing to be bad, and they could choose to be good if they just cared more about getting fans through the door.  Every team in the NHL is trying to be good.  Hell, even the Coyotes will be over the cap floor without the Datsyuk and Pronger contracts. If Edmonton started playing to 10,000 fans every night three years ago, would they be any better on the ice today? No.

You do bring up some good points, but none of those things have the effect of losing money. 

 

I never meant to insinuate that OTH towns make only bad decisions, but rather that fans crying foul has never been enough to stop teams from bad business practices. Do all teams want the cup? Sure, but more money has always trumped fan satisfaction, for every team. Does happier fans equate to more money? Absolutely, but to a significantly lower degree in OTH markets. 

 

Does that mean the traditional market faithful are bad fans? No, they're just loyal, and there are enough of them that attendance doesn't bottom out when they suck. This is a great thing, but the downside is a relative loss of revenue disapproval power in the fanbase.

 

There's a reason that the kinds of deals that turn a fanbase apoplectic happen way more in the traditional markets, and it's because financial success is less directly linked to wins and fan happiness in said markets. 

 

Do sunbelt teams have yo worry more about winning and keeping fans happy if they want to be financially successful? Yes, but that's because of a smaller, sometimes struggling, fanbase.

 

Case in point: Canadian expansion. The WHA merger looked to double the number of Canadian clubs, something that promised to be great for the Canadian fans. The three teams, not wanting to share HNIC revenue, kept standing in the way, no matter how much fan outcry there was. There was an element of pouting over the WHA poaching players, sure, but the money was the bigger factor.

 

It took a boycott of Molson products, a potential loss of Revenue bigger than what they stood to lose from sharing Hockey Night in Canada, to change their position. Teams have pretty much always listened more with their wallets, than anything else.

 

 

[FGM13]

EDIT: not worth it

[The_Admiral]

11 hours ago, Cosmic said:

You'd probably lump the Sabres in with the "too dedicated" crowd, but I've seen it first hand. When things go south, it's everywhere.  Papers, radio, TV, water cooler.  People harass the GM at the grocery store.

 

Thereby having even lousier social graces than Tim Murray himself, which is very hard to do.

[Cosmic]

11 minutes ago, the admiral said:

 

Thereby having even lousier social graces than Tim Murray himself, which is very hard to do.

This was still Darcy Regier. He was a Good Canadian Boy who didn't deserve the grief.

[The_Admiral]

Oh, that makes more sense; Tim Murray probably can't handle going to the grocery store.

[habsfan1]

Predators GM, who apparently still misses Shea Weber, signs Yannick Weber (who coincidentally also wears #6) to a 1 year contract with Nashville.

 

A few people say it's better to just laugh than cry. At least I got a good laugh from this.

[DavidBrown]

On 7/28/2016 at 7:45 AM, TRoyConcepts said:

 

The NHL doesn't care about the former players suffering from CTE. They have their own best interests in mind. That's just the hard truth.

 

I agree with you. When Former HNL player Todd Ewen died, CTE wants to examine his brain. Ewen had 146 fighting majors and 1,911 penalty minutes in 518 regular-season games. He was a member of the Montreal Canadians' 1993 Stanley Cup winning team. 

There is one more former Calgary player Steve Montador was found dead in his home in Feb 2015. This expert had more than 600 NHL games. Montador's brain indicated signs of chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), it is a brain disease which has been connected to Alzheimer's. Montador had decided to donate his brain to the Krembil research centre after his death.

[IceCap]

On 2016-08-05 at 9:31 AM, BeerGuyJordan said:

You do bring up some good points, but none of those things have the effect of losing money. 

 

I never meant to insinuate that OTH towns make only bad decisions, but rather that fans crying foul has never been enough to stop teams from bad business practices. Do all teams want the cup? Sure, but more money has always trumped fan satisfaction, for every team. Does happier fans equate to more money? Absolutely, but to a significantly lower degree in OTH markets. 

 

Does that mean the traditional market faithful are bad fans? No, they're just loyal, and there are enough of them that attendance doesn't bottom out when they suck. This is a great thing, but the downside is a relative loss of revenue disapproval power in the fanbase.

 

There's a reason that the kinds of deals that turn a fanbase apoplectic happen way more in the traditional markets, and it's because financial success is less directly linked to wins and fan happiness in said markets. 

 

Do sunbelt teams have yo worry more about winning and keeping fans happy if they want to be financially successful? Yes, but that's because of a smaller, sometimes struggling, fanbase.

You are, again, missing the point that a tremendous amount of pressure exists in "OTH" markets. Hell, one reason top tier Canadian players don't want to sign with Canadian teams is because the pressure is too much to deal with. 

 

Just spend a day in Toronto. Or you know what? It doesn't even need to be Toronto. Pick any city or town between Windsor and Toronto. Spend that day reading the sports section of the newspapers, listen to some sports talk radio, watch some tv. Go to a sports bar and just listen to what people talk about. There's pressure. To unbelievable degrees. 

Cosmic is right. When the losses start piling up? It's all anyone talks about. You can go from the discussion being "the Cup is practically ours" during a three game winning streak to "fire the coach, fire the GM, trade everyone" during a two game losing streak. 

 

Why do you think Edmonton finally did something and re-organised their coaching staff when they landed McDavid? They knew that fans wouldn't tolerate them wasting a once-in-a-generation prospect like they have their previous top draft picks.

 

Why do you think Toronto went out and landed Brandon Shanahan, Mike Babcock, and Lou Lamoriello? Those aren't names you bring in if you're just happy to sit back and rake in the cash with minimal effort and expenses. MLSE gave Babcock the highest coaching salary in the league ffs.

 

Like Cosmic said...maybe these moves work maybe they don't. Still, you can't say these don't try to succeed, or that they don't respond to fan pressures.

 

As for fanbases...meh. Your posting on the topic was loaded with condecension. 

"Well OTH fans will watch any crappy team, and their teams don't care, sucks to be them! But it's only because they're so loyal. 

We sunbelt fans are have GMs who respect us and we only tolerate the best product! But that's only because there aren't as many of us, not like you great 'OTH' fans *rolls eyes* "

 

Maybe that's not how you meant it, but it's how it comes across.

 

Quote

 

Case in point: Canadian expansion. The WHA merger looked to double the number of Canadian clubs, something that promised to be great for the Canadian fans. The three teams, not wanting to share HNIC revenue, kept standing in the way, no matter how much fan outcry there was. There was an element of pouting over the WHA poaching players, sure, but the money was the bigger factor.

 

It took a boycott of Molson products, a potential loss of Revenue bigger than what they stood to lose from sharing Hockey Night in Canada, to change their position. Teams have pretty much always listened more with their wallets, than anything else.

 

I have no idea what any of this has to do with the "OTH" teams making poor personal decisions and their fanbase's willingness to tolerate it. You're swinging for the fences and hitting a single, at best. 

[Still MIGHTY]

As a Sun Belt fan, I'd rather have loyal fans that show up and voice their concerns than ones only bothered to show up when they're winning. It's not like the Leafs or Oilers fans that continued to show up showered the team with cheers and love. There were plenty of boos and thrown jerseys (and waffles) on the ice.

 

Pipe dream to be sure, but I'd kill for the Ducks to have an "OTH fanbase" (which honestly, BGJ, your use of leads to the air of condescension when talking about those markets) rather than one that needs to be pampered, or, probably worse, feels that they need to be pampered to show up.

[T-ROY]

On 8/5/2016 at 10:59 PM, DavidBrown said:

I agree with you. When Former HNL player Todd Ewen died, CTE wants to examine his brain. Ewen had 146 fighting majors and 1,911 penalty minutes in 518 regular-season games. He was a member of the Montreal Canadians' 1993 Stanley Cup winning team. 

 

Todd Ewen didn't have CTE.

[The_Admiral]

Edmonton has a HOTH fanbase because you see it's cold there and