guest23 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 14 hours ago, WavePunter said: A year or two ago, we had this exact discussion in a thread I started.. I went to my brother-in-law's school to apply their helmet decals and noticed how beat up their helmets looked and how much the paint had chipped, etc (this was after fall camp, less than a week before game 1).. I'm the equipment manager at my school, and at the time, ours still looked relatively brand new.. I hypothesized that it was due primarily to the finish (ours were Carolina Panther silver with a high gloss finish, and theirs were matte black).. So, for a couple years now, I have absolutely felt as though the finish plays a role in safety.. I think you're spot-on here Can you elaborate how a helmet finish relates to player safety in relation to the sheer velocity and force of helmet to helmet impacts generated by 200lb+ athletes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont care Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 2 minutes ago, guest23 said: Can you elaborate how a helmet finish relates to player safety in relation to the sheer velocity and force of helmet to helmet impacts generated by 200lb+ athletes? Something about the coefficient of friction, glossy helmets hitting eachother may have less friction allowing them to basically slide off eachother, versus matte that may cause a sudden stop. I'm calling b.s. on that though because it would be so minuscule of a difference especially with the forces that are being put out would break the static friction, and you would just be dealing with kinetic friction which is much less. Also with both objects already moving you wouldn't have to deal with static friction since that is only there when you are trying to get an object moving and requires more force than kinetic friction which occurs while an object is sliding across a surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WavePunter Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Yes, I'd be happy to.. There is a wide variety of the types of hits (helmet-to-helmet) these players endure, ranging from what we would consider a "glancing blow" all the way to full and direct contact.. The glancing blow is the most minor form of helmet-to-helmet contact, as the helmets are simply redirected away from one another on different paths and momentum is almost unaffected due to a general lack of friction between the two helmets.. Therefore, it's safe to conclude that the closer to a "glancing blow", the lower the risk of serious head/brain/neck injury.. The key component in the "glancing blow" scenario is a lack of friction.. A high gloss helmet finish reduces friction significantly more than a dull, matte finish.. Increased friction results in quicker changes in momentum, more "sticking" of the helmets, rather than them sliding past each other, and ultimately more abrupt stops and more severe changes of direction.. It's these sudden stops and quick, drastic directional changes that allow the inertia of the brain to cause it to continue in motion and bump into the inside of the skull, resulting in concussions.. It also leads to more twisting and turning of the head and neck, which compound the issue and are cause for concern in their own right.. So, in conclusion, I'm not saying that a "squared-up", full-on, direct helmet-to-helmet hit can be turned into a "glancing blow" with a little polish, but I am saying that the same hit, if at all off-center, would be measurably less severe (especially compounded over time) when the contact is made between two high gloss helmets, as opposed to two matte helmets.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCM0313 Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 1 hour ago, HailGoldPants said: Thanks man...I appreciate that. No problem. It's something I wouldn't think would be awesome, too, which just makes it awesomer. I like sky blue, but you wouldn't think a lightning bolt out of a clear blue sky would make much sense, either scientifically (though it can happen) or visually...and yet your helmet concept was great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest23 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 2 hours ago, WavePunter said: Yes, I'd be happy to.. There is a wide variety of the types of hits (helmet-to-helmet) these players endure, ranging from what we would consider a "glancing blow" all the way to full and direct contact.. The glancing blow is the most minor form of helmet-to-helmet contact, as the helmets are simply redirected away from one another on different paths and momentum is almost unaffected due to a general lack of friction between the two helmets.. Therefore, it's safe to conclude that the closer to a "glancing blow", the lower the risk of serious head/brain/neck injury.. The key component in the "glancing blow" scenario is a lack of friction.. A high gloss helmet finish reduces friction significantly more than a dull, matte finish.. Increased friction results in quicker changes in momentum, more "sticking" of the helmets, rather than them sliding past each other, and ultimately more abrupt stops and more severe changes of direction.. It's these sudden stops and quick, drastic directional changes that allow the inertia of the brain to cause it to continue in motion and bump into the inside of the skull, resulting in concussions.. It also leads to more twisting and turning of the head and neck, which compound the issue and are cause for concern in their own right.. So, in conclusion, I'm not saying that a "squared-up", full-on, direct helmet-to-helmet hit can be turned into a "glancing blow" with a little polish, but I am saying that the same hit, if at all off-center, would be measurably less severe (especially compounded over time) when the contact is made between two high gloss helmets, as opposed to two matte helmets.. Your explanation of friction is fine but I think you're vastly overestimating how surface texture could influence even a glancing blow when the force and velocity of said blow is so many orders of magnitude higher. While an interesting theory, I just don't think it's remotely statistically significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WavePunter Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 1 hour ago, guest23 said: Your explanation of friction is fine but I think you're vastly overestimating how surface texture could influence even a glancing blow when the force and velocity of said blow is so many orders of magnitude higher. While an interesting theory, I just don't think it's remotely statistically significant. You may very well be right.. It's really just a theory of mine.. But in the previous thread, another member who was on my side of the argument was an engineer who had an expertise in physics, so I found that reassuring.. I'm not sure how long a human body has to be stopped or what sort of change in speed and direction is required to slosh the brain around inside the skull, but the space is only a couple of millimeters thick, so anything to the positive is more desirable imo.. I know that matte helmets look like crap due to the wear and tear that the finish promotes, and I can't imagine the helmet taking that much extra beating is good for the brain.. I'm no physicist, and like I said before, I could be completely wrong, but I'd be very interested in seeing this study carried out in full experiment form.. I'm curious about what the results would show.. Anyway, the thread is called "helmet color affecting safety" or something along those lines.. Started in Jan 2015, if anyone cares to take a look at the discussion we had before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest23 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Too bad mythbusters is off the air because this would be a fun hypothesis to test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumpygremlin Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 14 hours ago, guest23 said: Too bad mythbusters is off the air because this would be a fun hypothesis to test. FWIW, it's being resurrected. They're going to do a reality show to audition a new set of MythBusters before they resurrect the series. (Total cash grab, IMO, but still worth mentioning.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCM0313 Posted May 4, 2016 Author Share Posted May 4, 2016 15 hours ago, guest23 said: Too bad mythbusters is off the air because this would be a fun hypothesis to test. I'm not sure that would be a big enough draw for a topic. I get the feeling that many of the fine folks here are...different. I know I am. Then again, the show's aimed at nerds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mingjai Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 On 5/4/2016 at 9:00 AM, MCM0313 said: I'm not sure that would be a big enough draw for a topic. I get the feeling that many of the fine folks here are...different. I know I am. Then again, the show's aimed at nerds... Maybe we could get Clarkson, Hammond, and May to try it with racing helmet in their upcoming show. Visit my store on REDBUBBLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCM0313 Posted May 5, 2016 Author Share Posted May 5, 2016 32 minutes ago, Mingjai said: Maybe we could get Clarkson, Hammond, and May to try it with racing helmet in their upcoming show. What show is that? Is that a Mythbusters-type thing? I'm sorry, I really don't watch much TV... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesterdayWasCool Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 18 minutes ago, MCM0313 said: 52 minutes ago, Mingjai said: Maybe we could get Clarkson, Hammond, and May to try it with racing helmet in their upcoming show. What show is that? Is that a Mythbusters-type thing? I'm sorry, I really don't watch much TV... Its Top Gear. The Good one, BBC channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont care Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 4 hours ago, YesterdayWasCool said: Its Top Gear. The Good one, BBC channel. Not anymore, they all quit and are starting another show after Jeremy clarkson was fired for fighting a producer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesterdayWasCool Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 15 hours ago, dont care said: Not anymore, they all quit and are starting another show after Jeremy clarkson was fired for fighting a producer. Oh really? didn't realize they quit too. Thought they tried one season with someone new. Need to check that out. Anyway, Satin finish vs Matte finish....A&M helmet is Satin. Personally I like the satin finish vs the glossy finish for A&M. I do wish they would go to a white facemask for both helmets though instead of the grey.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCM0313 Posted May 6, 2016 Author Share Posted May 6, 2016 1 hour ago, YesterdayWasCool said: Oh really? didn't realize they quit too. Thought they tried one season with someone new. Need to check that out. Anyway, Satin finish vs Matte finish....A&M helmet is Satin. Personally I like the satin finish vs the glossy finish for A&M. I do wish they would go to a white facemask for both helmets though instead of the grey.. I think I like the satin finish better for A&M too, just because it makes it stand out a little more (the old glossy maroon helmets were a bit generic). Unless they're wearing a black helmet. Black helmets with non-glossy finishes look awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont care Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 2 hours ago, YesterdayWasCool said: Oh really? didn't realize they quit too. Thought they tried one season with someone new. Need to check that out. Anyway, Satin finish vs Matte finish....A&M helmet is Satin. Personally I like the satin finish vs the glossy finish for A&M. I do wish they would go to a white facemask for both helmets though instead of the grey.. Yea they quit saying they wouldn't work with clarkson off the show now they are gonna have a totally new cast. There is no replacing those 3 though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats7 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 anyone know why the Yanks ditched the matte helmets so quickly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(probably)notabandwagonfan Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 1 hour ago, slats7 said: anyone know why the Yanks ditched the matte helmets so quickly? The matte helmets are only for the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.