Oh Baylor, Where Art Thou?

[GFB]

After the most successful 5-year run of the football program, Baylor fired head football coach Art Briles and "reassigned" university president Ken Starr after releasing findings from a report created by a independent law firm... and it's, um, not good:

 

 

You can read the full independent report here.

 

I thought this was interesting due to the recent revelations of the Penn State scandal and the discussions that came of it.  One of the common "defenses" used by Penn State supporters at the time was that "too much time had passed, regimes had changed, don't punish the people that had no part in it, etc."  Well, that argument is out the window for this situation at Baylor. 

 

In the Penn State thread, I argued at the time (and in hindsight) that Penn State should have received the death penalty for what happened under the watch of the Cult of Paterno.  In this scenario now playing out at Baylor and if the findings are indeed true (they are), I think the death penalty should be given to the Bears as well.  It shows a repeated and fundamental lack of institutional control, where success on the football field has eclipsed even basic human decency and rights.  Vacating scholarships, wins, or practice time isn't going to miraculously fix the distorted value systems at play within the athletic department and administration where the football program is more important than the safety and treatment of your female athletes and students.  That is ass-backwards and won't be fixed with a slap on the wrist.

 

What do you think the punishment should be for the Baylor football program? 

 

 

 

[OnWis97]

Forgetting precedence and the impotence of the NCAA when it comes to truly important transgressions, I'd like to see the death penalty.  If the world was a better place, that's what woulda happened to Penn State and to Baylor.  When athletic departments and teams show callous indifference to victims of sexual assault, be they children or or adults, it's a cultural issue.  Firing the coach, or even firing anyone who knew anything, does not clean that culture up.  That's all I could think about with PSU--"by making sure football is still viable, we're pretty much condoning a broken culture, even if we're not condoning the actual crimes."  This morning when I heard about this (on Mike & Mike, a terrible source for college and football perspective) I kept thinking that also but I was also thinking that if the death penalty was a given for covering up sexual assault, these programs would not be doing so.  They'd be hanging offending players out to dry.  There needs to be a better deterrent.  Greenberg said "it's not an NCAA issue; it's bigger."  In a sense he's right.  But it should be  an NCAA issue.  The NCAA should be able to say "you have a culture that places winning games and your program's image above common decency.  So we're going to give you a nice long break."

 

If the world was a better place, the NCAA would kill the program.  Hell, if the world was a better place, both PSU and Baylor would say "we are a University and not a minor league football program.  We are ashamed of what our program has done and we are going to pull the plug on our team indefinitely."  But I guess there's too much money at stake.  I guess people are just not good enough.

 

Has this gone on at other schools?  Almost certainly.  Will it continue to?  Of course.  But maybe it wouldn't if there was an NCAA with the hammer (and spine) to provide a strong precedent and a deterrent.  If Penn State and Baylor did not have a "loss of institutional control" then I don't know who did.

 

I know you can remove people.  But I am not convinced you can change a culture, short of literally removing everyone.  Some people will be fired from Baylor and deservedly so.  Those left behind will have one mission; to make sure that Baylor football can weather this storm and be competitive.  I wonder what they'll do to make that happen.

[The_Admiral]

Death penalty, and a public booting of Ken Starr, who clutched his pearls over the Clintons but allowed sexual assault to run rampant on a college campus.

[Seadragon76]

I've read an article that said Baylor should just cancel the upcoming football season as punishment for what has gone on.

 

Winning is a band aid to all the ills that happen, but this went on while they were winning... so, what does that leave them?

[GFB]

The hypocrisy and insatiable ego of the NCAA is so completely mind-blowing... The fact that, in their mind, compensating students (who mind you, the NCAA's bazillion dollar platform was created entirely on the backs of) with money, tattoos, or possessions is a worse offense and carries harsher punishments than actual crimes is sickening.

 

Here's a short list at how the infractions should be viewed by the NCAA, from least severe to most:

• Compensating or allowing players to profit off their own name. (SMU, Fab Five, Reggie Bush, Ohio State's tattoo-gate, Ole Miss -- Actual positives for the students)
• Recruiting "experiences" (Miami, Louisville -- Just as long as it stays away from outright prostitution)
• Creating fake majors and classes for athletes to pass without trying/attending. (UNC -- Hurts the athlete in the long run)
• Sweeping investigations under the rug for a star player (FSU/Jameis Winston -- Early onset "Lack of Institutional Control") 
• Creating a culture that fosters heinous acts for an extended period of time (Penn State, Baylor -- Cancerous cultures that need to be put down and into perspective)

In reality, you can flip that list upside down and it would fit the NCAA's punishments perfectly.

[Gothamite]

3 hours ago, OnWis97 said:

I know you can remove people.  But I am not convinced you can change a culture, short of literally removing anyone.  Some people will be fired from Baylor and deservedly so.  Those left behind will have one mission; to make sure that Baylor football can weather this storm and be competitive.  I wonder what they'll do to make that happen.

 

And this is exactly what the death penalty is for, why it should have been used on Penn State, and why it should be used on Baylor.  When the culture is so corrupt, the only thing to do is make the program take a time out measured in years if not decades.

[rams80]

What should the NCAA do?

 

Nothing more really-Baylor's program isn't going to recover from this.

 

What should the US Department of Education do? (OH HAI GUYS!)

 

No federal student aid money until a reliable Title IX regime is in place.  The latter, btw, would hurt Baylor far more than sanctioning football.

[dfwabel]

People, it is NOT a full report. It is what Baylor wanted to tell the public. There were no details and names attached to any actions and no names given accountability.

 

As for the "death penalty", when UNC has been given a life line, Baylor and LOIC (Lack of Institutional Control) still pales in comparison.

 

We had a same case with a school and a municipal police department not reporting sexual assaults before, it wasn't Tallahassee, but it was at the University of Montana and Missoula. The Justice Department has already been there and reported.

[Burkell007]

They should give the death penalty to the WHOLE AD department, I mean they have not learned as a whole, this IS the same place where about 10 years ago one basketball player killed his teamate, and the coach covered it up right?

[dfwabel]

13 minutes ago, lilben777 said:

They should give the death penalty to the WHOLE AD department, I mean they have not learned as a whole, this IS the same place where about 10 years ago one basketball player killed his teamate, and the coach covered it up right?

For what? LOIC?

[rams80]

9 minutes ago, lilben777 said:

They should give the death penalty to the WHOLE AD department, I mean they have not learned as a whole, this IS the same place where about 10 years ago one basketball player killed his teamate, and the coach covered it up right?

 

Didn't cover it up.  Framed the dead player as a drug dealer to cover up the under-the-table payments he was making to his players.

 

Dave Bliss is a general scumbag of highest proportions and his complaints about the "Albuquerque media fish bowl" back when he coached at New Mexico have a haunting darkness then and now.

[FiddySicks]

On 5/27/2016 at 7:02 AM, the admiral said:

Death penalty, and a public booting of Ken Starr, who clutched his pearls over the Clintons but allowed sexual assault to run rampant on a college campus.

 

I knew that name sounded familiar. OF COURSE the same guy who tried (unsuccessfully) to bury Clinton for his sexual misgivings is the same guy who turned a blind eye to serious rape accusations 

[MadmanLA]

I think we all know by now that the NCAA was built on hypocrisy and greed...and since Baylor is part of a big conference like Penn State, they'll probably receive the same type of "slap-on-the-hand" punishment that the State College chapter of NAMBLA did.  Hell, SMU got punished more severely for much far less controversy.

 

I had the feeling that when Penn State went through this scandal and consequences that came after, that the current players shouldn't be punished.  I came to realize that after seeing the "Happy Valley" documentary, and moreso after the recent news about Paterno knowing of Sandusky's horrible activities as far back as the 1970s, they should have shut that program down for good.  The worst thing in that documentary was those Paterno enablers harassing an older guy who was protesting in front of the old JoePa statue...even more galling was one of the interviewees mentioned Paterno actually never cared personally for Sandusky.

[dfwabel]

2 minutes ago, MadmanLA said:

I think we all know by now that the NCAA was built on hypocrisy and greed...and since Baylor is part of a big conference like Penn State, they'll probably receive the same type of "slap-on-the-hand" punishment that the State College chapter of NAMBLA did.  Hell, SMU got punished more severely for much far less controversy.

 

I had the feeling that when Penn State went through this scandal and consequences that came after, that the current players shouldn't be punished.  I came to realize that after seeing the "Happy Valley" documentary, and moreso after the recent news about Paterno knowing of Sandusky's horrible activities as far back as the 1970s, they should have shut that program down for good.  The worst thing in that documentary was those Paterno enablers harassing an older guy who was protesting in front of the old JoePa statue...even more galling was one of the interviewees mentioned Paterno actually never cared personally for Sandusky.

Baylor is in a Power 5 conference...for now. By the time the Power 5 TV contracts end, they could be on the outside.

 

Keep in mind that not every sexual assault was committed by athletes and this is not just a football/athletics problem.  It is a CAMPUS issue and the state/federal officials and regional accreditation agency have a much larger role than the NCAA in penalizing, especially if there is nothing specified within one's bylaws. 

[Gothamite]

It is an issue that should be addressed at every level.

 

The NCAA shouldn't be the only governing entity to come down hard on Baylor, but they should still come down hard on Baylor.

[sc49erfan15]

5 hours ago, MadmanLA said:

State College chapter of NAMBLA

 

[dfwabel]

Well, it's on, as Art Briles has lawyer'ed up.

 

Excerpt:

Quote

 

Fired Baylor coach Art Briles is ripping his former employer, accusing the school of wrongful termination and indicating he has no interest in settling a federal lawsuit filed against him and the university by a woman who was raped by a football player.

In a motion filed Thursday as part of the lawsuit, Briles said he wants a judge to assign him new counsel and his personal attorney Ernest Cannon, said the school was using the coach as a scapegoat for its failings in handling allegations of sexual assault.

"The conclusion is inescapable that the motive of Baylor and the Board of Regents was to use its head football coach and the Baylor athletic department as a camouflage to disguise and distract from its own institutional failure to comply" with federal civil rights protections, Cannon wrote to Baylor's attorneys in the latest development in a scandal that has gripped the world's largest Baptist university for months .

 

He also demanded that Baylor "immediately turn over to me the entire contents of each and every one of their litigation files" — including information given to the Pepper Hamilton law firm that investigated Baylor's response to assault allegations in recent years.

 

 

That one-year suspension which some regents proposed is probably now off the table. 

[MJWalker45]

On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 11:06 AM, GFB said:

The hypocrisy and insatiable ego of the NCAA is so completely mind-blowing... The fact that, in their mind, compensating students (who mind you, the NCAA's bazillion dollar platform was created entirely on the backs of) with money, tattoos, or possessions is a worse offense and carries harsher punishments than actual crimes is sickening.

 

Here's a short list at how the infractions should be viewed by the NCAA, from least severe to most:

• Compensating or allowing players to profit off their own name. (SMU, Fab Five, Reggie Bush, Ohio State's tattoo-gate, Ole Miss -- Actual positives for the students)
• Recruiting "experiences" (Miami, Louisville -- Just as long as it stays away from outright prostitution)
• Creating fake majors and classes for athletes to pass without trying/attending. (UNC -- Hurts the athlete in the long run)
• Sweeping investigations under the rug for a star player (FSU/Jameis Winston -- Early onset "Lack of Institutional Control") 
• Creating a culture that fosters heinous acts for an extended period of time (Penn State, Baylor -- Cancerous cultures that need to be put down and into perspective)

In reality, you can flip that list upside down and it would fit the NCAA's punishments perfectly.

I'm surprised Ohio State and USC haven't requested their wins back after Penn State was hiven theirs. USC might not win, only because Reggie Bush's family got the benefits directly rather than directly from Reggie. The annoying thing about the Ohio State situation is the players sold personal possessions. If they had sold a TV instead of their gold pants and bowl gear the NCAA couldn't say a thing.

[dfwabel]

Big 12 full statement today regarding Baylor:

 

Quote

The Big 12 Board of Directors is gravely and deeply concerned by media reports about activities involving the athletics program at Baylor University. On May 24, 2016, the Big 12 Board requested a full accounting of the circumstances surrounding the sexual assaults at the University. At this time the Board is only privy to information that has been made available to the public.

Today, Big 12 Commissioner Bob Bowlsby sent a letter to Baylor University Interim President David Garland once again requesting all documents associated with the investigations of sexual assaults at Baylor. This request is for written materials as well as any information that has been conveyed orally to University leadership or to its Board of Regents including, but not limited to, the unedited written or verbal information from Pepper Hamilton, omitting only the names of any involved students. Internal documents pertinent to the investigation have also been requested.

Because many of the incidents at Baylor reportedly involve student-athletes, the Conference is appropriately concerned with discovery of the facts. The Big 12 is primarily configured to facilitate fair competition among its members and compliance to the rules of both the Conference and NCAA. To that end, full disclosure is vital to assess the impact on the Big 12.

"All of our member universities consider student safety and security to be paramount among institutional responsibilities," said Bowlsby. "The Big 12 Board of Directors, each member of the Conference and its student-athletes want to convey that our thoughts, concerns and sympathies are with the Baylor survivors and their families."

 

And another allegation regarding Art Briles concerning the 2012 rape of Jazmin Hernandez by Tevin Elliott. 

[MJWalker45]

10 minutes ago, dfwabel said:

Big 12 full statement today regarding Baylor:

 

 

And another allegation regarding Art Briles concerning the 2012 rape of Jazmin Hernandez by Tevin Elliott. 

Not surprised he skipped out on apologizing after getting his severance package. Even if he wanted to fully apologize I'm sure that part of the arrangement was to not discuss the case period, especially with the person suing both he and the school.