Las Vegas NHL Expansion

[charger77]

If there already wasn't a Kings I'd be down for Knights. It would be like the expansion Atlanta Calicos coming into the backyard of the Florida Panthers

[BeerGuyJordan]

Someone on an unrelated board suggested a bunch of animals, but one stuck out to me. Sidewinders. On top of the Mojave Desert Sidewinder, it's also the name of an air missile. I still like Aces better, but I need to accept that it's a pipe dream. Sidewinders strikes me as better than a generic name that only works as a combination of a play on words and a "we don't have anything better."

 

Las Vegas Sidewinders...likely shortened to 'Winders with fans...I think they could do worse, and I'm not really hearing much better.

[charger77]

9 minutes ago, BeerGuyJordan said:

Someone on an unrelated board suggested a bunch of animals, but one stuck out to me. Sidewinders. On top of the Mojave Desert Sidewinder, it's also the name of an air missile. I still like Aces better, but I need to accept that it's a pipe dream. Sidewinders strikes me as better than a generic name that only works as a combination of a play on words and a "we don't have anything better."

 

Las Vegas Sidewinders...likely shortened to 'Winders with fans...I think they could do worse, and I'm not really hearing much better.

 

Just screams Arena Football League

[BeerGuyJordan]

56 minutes ago, charger77 said:

 

Just screams Arena Football League

I can't really disagree, but what else is there? Sure, the area has evolved beyond just the gaming aspects, but gambling and the strip is tied in to nearly every aspect of Vegas' history. If you take that out completely, even names that could be construed as nods to gaming, all you really have left are the aboriginal presence (no new organization would want to invite the kinds of cultural appropriation criticisms that plague certain other teams), military aviation, nuclear testing, and the Old Mormon Fort, with some loose ties to mining/prospecting. 

 

I understand wanting to distance themselves from gambling, even if I disagree with the extent to which they are attempting to do so. With so little history that isn't tied to gaming, the local biome seems like a logical place to look. And with Monsters (for gila monsters), Roadrunners and Thunderbirds all being AHL teams, they are pretty much off the plate for being introduced. If not entirely, then at least in the timeframe Foley is hoping for.

 

I would just hate for Vegas to wind up with a generic team identity that doesn't really have a damned thing to do with their city (like Knights). Sure, it worked for Pittsburgh, but the locals picked that name.

[mcj882000]

Why not "Las Vegas Hunters", or "Las Vegas Dukes", after the author/main character of one of the most well-known books/movies about that city?

(Just realized it would've been his 79th birthday today... damn)

[Thaumatrope]

Here's a thought...what about the Las Vegas Dynamos? 

 

Hoover Dam is just 30 miles south of Las Vegas and the city uses a substantial amount of power (8,000 MegaWatts by one count). Obviously there's a strong association with Dynamo Moscow, but I'm not sure if that's an inherently negative thing.

[IceCap]

1 hour ago, BeerGuyJordan said:

I can't really disagree, but what else is there? 

Knights. 

I don't understand the need for a name to tie in with the locale. The team name should sound good. That's all. If you can find a local name that sounds good? That's a bonus. Passing on a completely serviceable name for a local name that's not as good is foolhardy. 

[Thaumatrope]

Other possibilities...

 

The Las Vegas Vaqueros - Las Vegas translates to "the meadows", and Vaquero is Spanish for cowboy. I like the alliteration, and in light of all the demographic trends both in Las Vegas and the Southwest in general, it could be a great way to market the team (and the sport) to the Spanish-speaking community. 

 

The Las Vegas Vultures - Not the most flattering mascot, but Las Vegas is in the desert, and its certainly unique. Bonus points for alliteration. 

 

The Las Vegas Blitz - Really scraping the bottom of the barrel here...but I do like the play on glitz. 

 

The Las Vegas Gila Monsters - Pretty sure I saw this mentioned elsewhere. Its pretty cumbersome, and while Gila Monsters are from the southwest, they're not exactly great mascot material. 

Quote

Though the Gila monster is venomous, its sluggish nature means it represents little threat to humans. (via Wikipedia)

 

Another major challenge with naming a team in Las Vegas (that I don't think anyone has brought up) is that certain names are likely to be avoided because of their association with specific casinos. This is less about gambling and more about avoiding the appearance of favoritism.

 

For example:

 

Lions (MGM)

Tigers (The Mirage)

Gladiators (Caesar's Palace)

Flamingos (The Flamingo)

 

Obviously most of these names are probably non-starters, but its another pitfall to be mindful of.

[WSU151]

3 minutes ago, Thaumatrope said:

Another major challenge with naming a team in Las Vegas (that I don't think anyone has brought up) is that certain names are likely to be avoided because of their association with specific casinos. This is less about gambling and more about avoiding the appearance of favoritism.

 

For example:

 

Lions (MGM)

Tigers (The Mirage)

Gladiators (Caesar's Palace)

Flamingos (The Flamingo)

 

Obviously most of these names are probably non-starters, but its another pitfall to be mindful of.

 

How many people really connected Knights to the Excalibur Hotel?  

[Thaumatrope]

1 minute ago, WSU151 said:

 

How many people really connected Knights to the Excalibur Hotel?  

 

Really good question. I suppose the fact that no one else has brought it up until now suggests that not many people have. Its been many many years since I've been to Las Vegas, but my feeling is that Excalibur doesn't really hold much of a place in the popular perception of the city. Still...its a valid point. Would a name like Knights be seen as some kind of tie-in or endorsement with the Excalibur casino?

[BeerGuyJordan]

It would be interesting to know if Knights had been knocked out due to possible tie-ins to the Excalibur. I find it unlikely, though.

 

http://m.reviewjournal.com/sports/hockey-vegas/day-15-what-should-las-vegas-nhl-expansion-team-be-called-poll

 

Aces is certainly the favorite and has local support. Knights is currently being beaten by Scorpions in LVR's unofficial poll. Sure it made it to the top eight, but it only had to beat Neon Knights and Lights to get there.

 

1 hour ago, Ice_Cap said:

Knights. 

I don't understand the need for a name to tie in with the locale. The team name should sound good. That's all. If you can find a local name that sounds good? That's a bonus. Passing on a completely serviceable name for a local name that's not as good is foolhardy. 

 

While wanting it to sound good is a valid stance, almost every local I've talked to has wanted a good local name, which is no less valid. Therefore I find this appropriate: 

[SFGiants58]

2 hours ago, mcj882000 said:

Why not "Las Vegas Hunters", or "Las Vegas Dukes", after the author/main character of one of the most well-known books/movies about that city?

(Just realized it would've been his 79th birthday today... damn)

 

That's a nice little idea (and if Hunter were alive to approve it, I would be in full support), but I don't think Hunter S. Thompson would've really enjoyed his name/his literary persona's name being turned into the mascot of a sports team run by the types he criticized while writing Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas or any other pieces of his work.

 

Besides, I like Knights as the moniker for the new team. It's a bit bland, but it sounds better than Aces or any of the other "local" names.

[IceCap]

12 minutes ago, BeerGuyJordan said:

It would be interesting to know if Knights had been knocked out due to possible tie-ins to the Excalibur. I find it unlikely, though.

 

http://m.reviewjournal.com/sports/hockey-vegas/day-15-what-should-las-vegas-nhl-expansion-team-be-called-poll

 

Aces is certainly the favorite and has local support. Knights is currently being beaten by Scorpions in LVR's unofficial poll. Sure it made it to the top eight, but it only had to beat Neon Knights and Lights to get there.

 

 

While wanting it to sound good is a valid stance, almost every local I've talked to has wanted a good local name, which is no less valid. Therefore I find this appropriate: 

Is it valid? Sure. It's just awfully limiting. 

 

Gambling-themed names are out. Wax poetically about Vegas' gambling history all you want, the league will not let it happen. 

So you're left with Knights, which sounds good and provides a wealth of imagery to build an identity around. Or a selection of less than stellar non-gambling names. I'll choose the good name with no local connection over the mediocre-to-bad local names that remain viable. 

 

As for the local fans...if Cleveland fans can embrace the name "Cleveland Cavaliers" then Las Vagas fans can embrace "Las Vegas Knights."

Unless you're going to try and tell me that Stewart dynasty loyalists liked to summer on the shores of Lake Erie.

[BeerGuyJordan]

32 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

Is it valid? Sure. It's just awfully limiting. 

 

Gambling-themed names are out. Wax poetically about Vegas' gambling history all you want, the league will not let it happen. 

So you're left with Knights, which sounds good and provides a wealth of imagery to build an identity around. Or a selection of less than stellar non-gambling names. I'll choose the good name with no local connection over the mediocre-to-bad local names that remain viable. 

 

As for the local fans...if Cleveland fans can embrace the name "Cleveland Cavaliers" then Las Vagas fans can embrace "Las Vegas Knights."

Unless you're going to try and tell me that Stewart dynasty loyalists liked to summer on the shores of Lake Erie.

An interesting aspect of the Cavs is that it was never a popular identity among people who didn't follow the team. It wasn't until LeBron that it became a popular item. Some teams sell merchandise because the jerseys/caps look great or resonate well with locals (the Sharks are a great example of this). With Vegas being such a tourist mecca, proper branding, especially something non-generic, could be a hot tourism sell, as well.

 

I've accepted that Aces is likely off the table (though Sparky's concept is good enough to be a seller anong people who never even go to a game). But weak branding (Knights with a drab color scheme) will miss out on a ton of merchandising. A good name doesn't sell merchandise. Logos, identities and color schemes do. Look at Nashville and the kind of diffetence branding can make in invigorating a fan base. 

[IceCap]

I don't recall anyone demanding the Cavs change their name prior to LeBron James showing up. I think you're overstating how unpopular it was. 

 

25 minutes ago, BeerGuyJordan said:

Some teams sell merchandise because the jerseys/caps look great or resonate well with locals (the Sharks are a great example of this). With Vegas being such a tourist mecca, proper branding, especially something non-generic, could be a hot tourism sell, as well.

The Sharks' gear didn't sell well because it resonated with locals. It sold well because it was the 90s, the logo was an aggressive animal, and the colour scheme was in. No one was visiting San Jose and going "oh hey honey, this NHL expansion team has a hat that just screams Northern California. Let's get it."

 

As for Vegas...no one goes to LV for hockey. Not to say that LV NHL gear can't sell, but you're really overplaying the demand if you think flashy gear will make it must-have.

 

I've accepted that Aces is likely off the table (though Sparky's concept is good enough to be a seller anong people who never even go to a game). But weak branding (Knights with a drab color scheme) will miss out on a ton of merchandising. A good name doesn't sell merchandise. Logos, identities and color schemes do. Look at Nashville and the kind of diffetence branding can make in invigorating a fan base.

Ok. On Sparky's concept. 

First off, the team name could be Aces, and the uniform would look nothing like Sparky's concept. The Baltimore Ravens' logo fiasco killed the idea that a fan could design the look of a big four team. So how awesome Sparky's "Aces" concept is really doesn't matter. The team going with "Knights" wouldn't have robbed you of the chance to see Sparky's concept realised.

Secondly...you're calling a potential Las Vegas Knights identity built around black and old gold bland? While gushing over Sparky's "Aces" concept? The concept that's primarily black and white?

Double standards at work.

[BeerGuyJordan]

9 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

I don't recall anyone demanding the Cavs change their name prior to LeBron James showing up. I think you're overstating how unpopular it was. 

 

The Sharks' gear didn't sell well because it resonated with locals. It sold well because it was the 90s, the logo was an aggressive animal, and the colour scheme was in. No one was visiting San Jose and going "oh hey honey, this NHL expansion team has a hat that just screams Northern California. Let's get it."

 

As for Vegas...no one goes to LV for hockey. Not to say that LV NHL gear can't sell, but you're really overplaying the demand if you think flashy gear will make it must-have.

 

 

 

Ok. On Sparky's concept. 

First off, the team name could be Aces, and the uniform would look nothing like Sparky's concept. The Baltimore Ravens' logo fiasco killed the idea that a fan could design the look of a big four team. So how awesome Sparky's "Aces" concept is really doesn't matter. The team going with "Knights" wouldn't have robbed you of the chance to see Sparky's concept realised.

Secondly...you're calling a potential Las Vegas Knights identity built around black and old gold bland? While gushing over Sparky's "Aces" concept? The concept that's primarily black and white?

Double standards at work.

Not really, Sparky's Aces concept is solid, but I've always felt a splash of neon would do wonders. He has stated that he was working within the confines of the color scheme Foley said "would be the colors." Also woth noting is that Sparky's logo, in a vaccuum, is good (but even that has the benefit of capturing a strong Vegas idea). Sparky's conceptual identity video, with mascot, alternates, branding and merchandising is incredible, while also promoting the military aviation heritage and a nice balance of gambling.

 

If Sparky's Knights concept included neon, I might feel better about it. But the bright lights of Vegas should be embraced in some way, shape, or form. Especially if the branding misses the mark on honoring the location in their name.

[IceCap]

Honouring the city name isn't a necessity. Most big four team names don't, and they manage just fine. 

 

Again...Sparky's concept wouldn't happen, even if the name was Aces. It's a non-starter for a name that's a non-starter. 

[BeerGuyJordan]

39 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

Honouring the city name isn't a necessity. Most big four team names don't, and they manage just fine. 

 

Again...Sparky's concept wouldn't happen, even if the name was Aces. It's a non-starter for a name that's a non-starter. 

I've acknowledged that Ace's won't happen, I'm saying I think it's a bad decision to move into a city built on gambling, only to refuse to acknowledge that. Especially when you are located on the strip, in an arena owned by a Fortune 500 gaming giant, with so little. 

 

To most people, many of them Las Vegans, using an on-the-nose gambling name would be stupid. To avoid it, all-together, as an absolute business practice also seems timid to many of those same people.

[IceCap]

Casinos will be business partners of the LV team. That's a given. 

So the league will need to do all it can to not make it seem like that relationship has any influence on the on-ice product. Getting the team off the books and choosing a name that isn't gambling related are key form both legal and PR standpoints. 

 

It's not timid. It's smart.

[Josh.0]

Las Vegas Flamingos! I want pink, black and white -- maybe a little silver. But, yeah, not going to see it with the association to the casino. But, still VERY Las Vegas-esque.