2016 NBA Offseason thread

[truepg]

1 hour ago, CLEstones said:

 

Waiters was slotted at 7.  So for the Cavs to take him at 4 isn't questionable.  Waiters should have been a starter, but he was most effective coming off the bench for Boeheim.  4th quarter, OT, crunch time, Waiters was always on the floor and one of the top options, and one of the best players in the Big East.

 

Tristan Thompson was a ridiculous reach, both at the time, and in hindsight.  I can't much complain now though, seeing what they are paying him compared to what guys with less production are getting this offseason.

 

Bennett I didn't see an issue with.  There was no clear cut number one.  And Bennett was never intended to be an impact player from day 1.  When they selected him, they were hoping for a return on investment 3 years down the road.  Working with other young players, with eventually David Blatt as the head coach.  He was a player with a unique skill set that they were hoping to develop.  I guess you can say they should have taken McLemore or MAYBE Otto Porter with the #1 pick... but hard to make an argument when the most impact players 3 years later weren't anywhere near a #1 overall pick at the time.

 

Again, not saying Grant drafted well, by any means.  But at the time of the Waiters pick, the strategy was best available.  Take the best player on your board, and trade for needed pieces.  Draft talent, trade needs.  Waiters fit better with OKC because he didn't have to be the #2 and he had other guys who could space the floor like KD, Singler, and Morrow.  Even Westbrook you had to respect out there.  His short time with the Cavs had no floor spacing at all.

 

The questionable part with Waiters wasn't that he was slotted at 7 but taken at 4, but that he was a small combo guard 6th man, who needed the ball to be effective. If they were to draft best players available, there were still Lillard and Drummond on the board, especially, when the Cavs had a glaring need at center. Even Harrison Barnes was a better prospect considering his size. Waiters kept on being Waiters on the Thunder too, and now even the Nets don't want him.

 

In Bennett's case, there was an impact player right away in Oladipo, who was among the conversation for the top pick and was picked #2 eventually, or even Carter-Williams, picked #7, who had an immediate impact on the Sixers. No way they should've drafted McLemore or Porter, both of them are busts.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Waiters has found his niche in the NBA, and it's a good niche. He was critical in the series against the Spurs and had his moments against the Warriors. Maybe if some of Durant's game 6 bricks went his way things would have been different.

 

Of the guys who followed him, Draymond, Lillard and Drummond are clearly better. Lillard would have been redundant to Irving, Drummond to Thompson and Varejao, and no one knew about Draymond. You could make the case for Harrison Barnes, but I think he's at about the same level as Waiters. Though I guess we'll see in Dallas.

 

Waiters' ceiling might not be as high as a Steve Smith, Steve Kerr or even Bruce Bowen. But he can still give you good minutes off the bench, can put up 25 on a good night, and is getting better on defense.

 

I think he grew a lot in his time with OKC and would expect him to do well wherever he ends up. Cleveland just wasn't the right place.

[truepg]

9 minutes ago, DG_Now said:

Waiters has found his niche in the NBA, and it's a good niche. He was critical in the series against the Spurs and had his moments against the Warriors. Maybe if some of Durant's game 6 bricks went his way things would have been different.

 

Of the guys who followed him, Draymond, Lillard and Drummond are clearly better. Lillard would have been redundant to Irving, Drummond to Thompson and Varejao, and no one knew about Draymond. You could make the case for Harrison Barnes, but I think he's at about the same level as Waiters. Though I guess we'll see in Dallas.

 

Not true. Drummond is a true center, Thompson was a PF playing that position and at no point was Varejao considered a first unit center. You could make a case against Lillard (rightfully so) but the argument was that the Cavs were drafting the best player available.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Fair enough.  And obviously, Drummond would have been the better long term fit (though Thompson really has been incredible in the playoffs.)

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Jeremy Lin went from Super Saiyan to Allen Iverson:

 

[HedleyLamarr]

The hell?

 

He did go to Harvard, right?  That does explain things.  #YaleForever

[dfwabel]

He looks like the outcast member of a K-Pop band.

 

Also, TrueHoop did an hour regarding the sale of the Sonics which occurred ten years ago.  The three hosts (Pelton, Young, and Holmes) have a connection to one or both of the cities. Good stuff ,at the time,one was Sonics employee and one was a journalism student at OU who bought the cheapest season ticket package in year one in OKC.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

48 minutes ago, dfwabel said:

He looks like the outcast member of a K-Pop band.

 

Also, TrueHoop did an hour regarding the sale of the Sonics which occurred ten years ago.  The three hosts (Pelton, Young, and Holmes) have a connection to one or both of the cities. Good stuff ,at the time,one was Sonics employee and one was a journalism student at OU who bought the cheapest season ticket package in year one in OKC.

 

I couldn't bring myself to listen to it. I also, I can't bring myself to listen to most any podcast Rachel Nichols is on. Not because there's anything wrong with her, because there isn't. She's awesome. What is wrong is the TrueHoop guys and Zack Lowe spending the entire time time flirting with her and/or recounting how she got into the business. It's boring and not good radio. I wish someone would just treat her like an equal and get over it. 

[dfwabel]

32 minutes ago, DG_Now said:

 

I couldn't bring myself to listen to it. I also, I can't bring myself to listen to most any podcast Rachel Nichols is on. Not because there's anything wrong with her, because there isn't. She's awesome. What is wrong is the TrueHoop guys and Zack Lowe spending the entire time time flirting with her and/or recounting how she got into the business. It's boring and not good radio. I wish someone would just treat her like an equal and get over it. 

Last episode, TrueHoop was good Cassidy Hubbarth but it didn't deep dive as she as hip-hop and New Jack Swing as Ohm Youngmisuk yet they failed to do it. She wants to do TrueHoop, so next season ESPN need to fit her in.

[BlackBolt3]

https://twitter.com/wojverticalnba/status/756192100744568832

WHY CANT I HAVE NICE THINGS

 

EDIT: This is probably the maddest I've ever been as a sports fan. I didn't get mad over the CFP National Championship, and I didn't get mad over the Super Bowl. Those instances were just that my teams got outplayed and outschemed, and there was nothing that anyone other than the teams could dictate. This, was just an overreaching, bigoted man, who made a law that was just made in direct defiance of a city's law, and applied it to a whole state, jeopardizing the state's economy, and now costing the state a game that would've brought millions into the economy. All this could've been changed, but because one man and his administration wanted to show their power and bigotry, everyone in North Carolina has lost. I hope Pat McCrory gets trashed in the election, then chokes on a chicken biscuit, then gets shot into the sun.

[HedleyLamarr]

Charlotte should be thankful the NBA is relocating the All-Star festivities.

[The_Admiral]

I was gonna say "New Orleans should just have it more often than not" but then I clicked the link and was beaten to it.

 

This is probably a good thing, but I get itchy about "major corporations value trans rights" stuff because it really takes people's eyes off the prize.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

What is the prize?

 

I think the all star game would be nice to share with places like Kansas City, Las Vegas and, yes, Seattle just to share the NBA love.

 

Related, I was listening to The Ringer NBA podcast with Bill Simmons doing a guest appearance (so it was good for once). They were talking about stealing an idea from EPL for the NBA and they came up with doing some sort of continental cup simultaneously in the season. It's a good idea, but (and I bet you can see where I'm going with this...) what about NBA/NBDL pro/rel?

 

What if the NBDL expanded into second-tier/burgeoning markers to make, say, a 28-team league and lost team affiliations? And what if the top 2 of NBDL and bottom 2 of NBA teams cycled in and out each season?

 

It would be a ton of work and you'd need to do something different with the draft, but it's kind of interesting as an idea? Mostly I'm trying to find an in for Seattle to rejoin the NBA and it's the best I've got.

[CLEstones]

22 hours ago, truepg said:

 

The questionable part with Waiters wasn't that he was slotted at 7 but taken at 4, but that he was a small combo guard 6th man, who needed the ball to be effective. If they were to draft best players available, there were still Lillard and Drummond on the board, especially, when the Cavs had a glaring need at center. Even Harrison Barnes was a better prospect considering his size. Waiters kept on being Waiters on the Thunder too, and now even the Nets don't want him.

 

In Bennett's case, there was an impact player right away in Oladipo, who was among the conversation for the top pick and was picked #2 eventually, or even Carter-Williams, picked #7, who had an immediate impact on the Sixers. No way they should've drafted McLemore or Porter, both of them are busts.

 

Again, you are strictly going off of hindsight.  You aren't looking at the actual time and circumstances.  Yes, Waiters needed the ball to be effective, but that was basically the start of having 2 dynamic wing scorers when LeBron joined Wade.  Teams were trying to find scorers and playmakers.  The Cavs didn't need "fit" they needed points, they needed good/solid players, whether to build around or to use as trade.

 

Lillard was not even in the discussion for being #1 overall pick... least of which was having two 6'2" guards on the floor at the same time.  He was one of the major surprises of the draft, even if some pundits had projected him as a solid sleeper pick.  Drummond had numerous red flags, including his attitude, effort, if his skills actually translated to the NBA, and if a C/PF was the position you wanted to build around.  Barnes killed his draft stock when he came back for his sophomore season.  Again, after that season, many questions arose, including his leadership and skillset.

 

When it came to the Bennet draft, again, Oladipo was barely in the discussion for #1... it was more of "Well, I guess you can take him if you want a solid rotation/bench guy, but he doesn't have a high ceiling.  What you see is what you get."  And he is/was basically the same player at Waiters, who they were still expected big things out of at the time.  Once again, you would end up having 3 small guards, 1 of which was a good outside shooter.  I always say to draft for talent, but at some point, you can't do what the 76ers did and keep drafting the same position over and over.

 

The biggest fault of Grant was he didn't have a defined plan.  He didn't know if he wanted to draft best available, need, fit, or potential.  In his 4 drafts, you can see the variety... Kyrie was best in the draft, Thompson was need, Waiters was determined to best available, Bennet was potential, Wiggins was potential and fit.

[rams80]

40 minutes ago, DG_Now said:

What is the prize?

 

I think the all star game would be nice to share with places like Kansas City, Las Vegas and, yes, Seattle just to share the NBA love.

 

Related, I was listening to The Ringer NBA podcast with Bill Simmons doing a guest appearance (so it was good for once). They were talking about stealing an idea from EPL for the NBA and they came up with doing some sort of continental cup simultaneously in the season. It's a good idea, but (and I bet you can see where I'm going with this...) what about NBA/NBDL pro/rel?

 

What if the NBDL expanded into second-tier/burgeoning markers to make, say, a 28-team league and lost team affiliations? And what if the top 2 of NBDL and bottom 2 of NBA teams cycled in and out each season?

 

It would be a ton of work and you'd need to do something different with the draft, but it's kind of interesting as an idea? Mostly I'm trying to find an in for Seattle to rejoin the NBA and it's the best I've got.

 

1.  It would have a negative impact on the franchise values of current NBA franchises.

2.  It would endanger the TV deal (losing the Philadelphia market, for example, would hurt)

3.  Given the dramatic cost difference between even AAA stadia and major league stadia, who wants to tell the taxpayers they just footed the bill for a minor league stadium?

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Yeah, it's the same pitfalls of adding pro/rel to any league. But, again, it's just me working backwards on how to get Seattle back in the league.

[The_Admiral]

Buy the Thunder now that Durant is gone and their main sugar daddy took a road trip to a wall.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Kevin Durant's kind of a weird guy:

 

[BBTV]

Pro-Rel only works if all of the tier1 and tier2 teams are in legitimate markets.  There's not enough tier1 markets for the current leagues, let alone 1 and 2.

 

No way any network would be in favor of it, considering you could lose a major market for the Des Moineses of the country.  Same with the jersey advertisers, and arena dealers.  Everything is based on having exposure in the current markets.

 

Additionally, you'd have teams in 20,000 seat stadiums playing to mostly sparse crowds, since very few people would want to spend what it costs to go to an NBA game to watch a team that literally has no chance of making the playoffs even before the season starts.

[truepg]

12 hours ago, CLEstones said:

 

Again, you are strictly going off of hindsight.  You aren't looking at the actual time and circumstances.  Yes, Waiters needed the ball to be effective, but that was basically the start of having 2 dynamic wing scorers when LeBron joined Wade.  Teams were trying to find scorers and playmakers.  The Cavs didn't need "fit" they needed points, they needed good/solid players, whether to build around or to use as trade.

 

Lillard was not even in the discussion for being #1 overall pick... least of which was having two 6'2" guards on the floor at the same time.  He was one of the major surprises of the draft, even if some pundits had projected him as a solid sleeper pick.  Drummond had numerous red flags, including his attitude, effort, if his skills actually translated to the NBA, and if a C/PF was the position you wanted to build around.  Barnes killed his draft stock when he came back for his sophomore season.  Again, after that season, many questions arose, including his leadership and skillset.

 

When it came to the Bennet draft, again, Oladipo was barely in the discussion for #1... it was more of "Well, I guess you can take him if you want a solid rotation/bench guy, but he doesn't have a high ceiling.  What you see is what you get."  And he is/was basically the same player at Waiters, who they were still expected big things out of at the time.  Once again, you would end up having 3 small guards, 1 of which was a good outside shooter.  I always say to draft for talent, but at some point, you can't do what the 76ers did and keep drafting the same position over and over.

 

The biggest fault of Grant was he didn't have a defined plan.  He didn't know if he wanted to draft best available, need, fit, or potential.  In his 4 drafts, you can see the variety... Kyrie was best in the draft, Thompson was need, Waiters was determined to best available, Bennet was potential, Wiggins was potential and fit.

 

No, just telling how I felt at the time, and my expectations were true. You're comparing Kyrie and Waiters to Bron/Wade, but the smallest of those two is 6'6". Waiters was an undersized 6'4" combo guard to Kyrie's 6'3". Kyrie has always been a ball-dominant guard, and they drafted another one. (With his own share of character issues, for that matter).

 

You're mixing things up with Lillard and Drummond. They were in the same draft as Waiters, Lillard was picked only two spots after him, and I used him as an example only because you were emphasizing always drafting talent over need. Barnes was still in conversation in that range. Again, Cavs had a glaring need at center, thus Drummond was the rational choice and the right one in perspective. At no point was it a question of building around him, since they were already building around their #1 pick, Kyrie. In the Bennett draft, there wasn't a clear #1 candidate, but Oladipo, along with Porter, McLemore, and Noel were the names constantly in discussion.

 

I had done my homework. Agree to disagree.

 

Had Grant not screwed the Cavs up with his picks, the roster could've looked now a lot better, younger and more dominant. But then again, we got our 'ship, so I am happy.