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How Many Major Pro Sports Teams Could Las Vegas Support?


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1 hour ago, 2001mark said:

I have no problem with that.  Put hockey in hockey markets.  Sorry not sorry.

 

Saturating the two megalopolises of North America, the Boston-Washington corridor and the less-considered Great Lakes-St. Lawrence corridor, is the key to success. That's where the water is.

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I think the Las Vegas Hockey Players could work, but only if they're decent out of the gate, and if no other major sports league moves into town. If the Raiders come the NHL might as well pack up and move that day. 

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11 hours ago, McCarthy said:

I think the Las Vegas Hockey Players could work, but only if they're decent out of the gate, and if no other major sports league moves into town. If the Raiders come the NHL might as well pack up and move that day. 

 

Seconded.  There is a pretty good precedent for this in how the city of Charlotte entered the big leagues. The Charlotte Hornets entered NBA in 1988; were an immediate hit; setting attendance records in the NBA's largest basketball-specific arena.  Lots of excitement as Charlotte was finally in the "big leagues" with other southern cities such as Atlanta, New Orleans, and Miami, as well as the nation's premier big cities: New York, Los Angeles, Chicago.

 

Several years later, in 1993, the NFL announced the expansion Carolina Panthers, who then began play in 1995. Now, there were some other things occurring shortly after that time with Hornets owner George Shinn's personal life and the way he ran the team, but it is telling that the last season that the Hornets led the league in attendance was the 1995-96 season, the one overlapping with the Carolina Panthers' 1st season.  After that it was all downhill, with season attendance going from about 24,000 to 15,000 in just five years:

 

2000-01

 

15,010

1999-00

 

17,874

1998-99

 

19,232

1997-98

 

23,406

1996-97

 

24,042

 

It didn't help that the Carolina Panthers had on-field success almost out of the gate, going to the NFC Championship Game in their second year of existence.

 

Again, it can be argued that some of the decline had to do with Shinn and his antics, but what is also telling that even after a couple of years, when the city re-entered the NBA without the baggage of Shinn-- with a shiny brand-new franchise-- that crazy-big attendance still wasn't there, and attendance averaged around 14,000-15,000 a year:

 

CHARLOTTE BOBCATS

 

Season  GP    Total   Avg.

2004-05 41   591,701 14,431

2005-06 41   671,011 16,366

2006-07 41   637,520 15,549

2007-08 41   603,403 14,717

2008-09 41   597,548 14,574

2009-10 41   648,790 15,824

2010-11 41   649,694 15,846

2011-12 33   486,984 14,757

2012-13 41   628,293 15,324

2013-14 41   636,268 15,519

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22 minutes ago, Cujo said:

The NBA tried Vegas for the All-Star game several years back. 

 

Not sure what all turned them off, but the NBA wasn't impressed. Ran for the hills after that game, never looked back.

It's well documented on what all went down that "Black Super Bowl" weekend in Las Vegas.

 

Arrests were up and casino and restaurant income was DOWN.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Cujo said:

The NBA tried Vegas for the All-Star game several years back. 

 

Not sure what all turned them off, but the NBA wasn't impressed. Ran for the hills after that game, never looked back.

It's well documented on what all went down that "Black Super Bowl" weekend in Las Vegas.

 

Arrests were up and casino and restaurant income was DOWN.

 

 

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So the NHL team and the Raiders couldn't co-exist? I know there's some overlap between the NHL and NFL seasons from October til the Super Bowl, but how exactly would the Raiders presence hurt the hockey team after the NFL season?

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4 hours ago, 4_tattoos said:

So the NHL team and the Raiders couldn't co-exist? I know there's some overlap between the NHL and NFL seasons from October til the Super Bowl, but how exactly would the Raiders presence hurt the hockey team after the NFL season?

Because in each city, there's a limited number of sports fans with the money to afford attending games. Especially season tickets. And even if the NHL season tickets will be less per game, a lot of people will make a decision on one or the other if given the choice.

 

There's only so many people that can plunk down a few thousand a year just on tickets, plus parking, food, the will to drive down to the stadium each game, etc.

 

And that's tough with teams with lifelong history with their fans.... it's tougher with expansion teams. Some which might stumble out of the gate and not be that worth watching. Secondly, teams rely heavily on season tickets for sustainability. Single-game tickets are so much more spotty. And if the market is flat for a while, even the scalpers will stop buying season tickets knowing they can't make back their money over the course of the season.

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What would the playoffs look like with a 50 team NBA or NHL? Add an extra round and go to 32 teams? They already take over 2 months. Do you shorten the regular season, and hurt everyone's ticket sales? Play into July?  I'm not sure I'd really like an NHL where only 30 percent of the teams make the playoffs. The way it is now, you have your 16 playoff teams, and I'd say at least four more that are a threat to make the playoffs. That's 2/3 of the league that at least gets to dream of the playoffs. Without adding more playoff teams in a 50 team league, that's well over half of the league that's hopelessly out of the playoff hunt.

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19 hours ago, Cosmic said:

What would the playoffs look like with a 50 team NBA or NHL?

I would imagine maybe add a round to 32 or find a way to make 24 work, and then shorten the series to best of 3 for at least the first few rounds, then maybe 5 in the semis and 7 in the finals.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 8/16/2016 at 11:34 PM, Sykotyk said:
On 8/16/2016 at 7:00 PM, 4_tattoos said:

So the NHL team and the Raiders couldn't co-exist? I know there's some overlap between the NHL and NFL seasons from October til the Super Bowl, but how exactly would the Raiders presence hurt the hockey team after the NFL season?

 

Because in each city, there's a limited number of sports fans with the money to afford attending games. Especially season tickets. And even if the NHL season tickets will be less per game, a lot of people will make a decision on one or the other if given the choice.

 

There's only so many people that can plunk down a few thousand a year just on tickets, plus parking, food, the will to drive down to the stadium each game, etc.

 

And that's tough with teams with lifelong history with their fans.... it's tougher with expansion teams. Some which might stumble out of the gate and not be that worth watching. Secondly, teams rely heavily on season tickets for sustainability. Single-game tickets are so much more spotty. And if the market is flat for a while, even the scalpers will stop buying season tickets knowing they can't make back their money over the course of the season.

 

Exactly.  We like to think of our local teams as brothers fighting together for the honor of our city, but in reality they're competitors fighting each other for our attention and our wallets.

 

Even if schedules don't overlap, the more a family spends on one sport in the summer means they'll have less to spend on another sport during the winter.   Companies that take out ads at Arena A during the winter will have less to allocate towards ads at Stadium B during the summer.  There's only so much to go around, and in order for more than one major-league sport to flourish, the city will have to have a sufficient base to support each with as little overlap as possible.  

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35 minutes ago, 4_tattoos said:

So the NHL team in Vegas pretty much needs to win the Stanley Cup before the Raiders come to town in order to cement their spot in the city?

The issue is going to be season ticket renewals since they run on 3-,5-, and 10-year commitments.  The premium price seats have these contracts and many those folks will quickly exchange the NHL for NFL seats.

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2 hours ago, 4_tattoos said:

So the NHL team in Vegas pretty much needs to win the Stanley Cup before the Raiders come to town in order to cement their spot in the city?

 

I'd say probably more like three or four Cups. The Hurricanes won a cup and they went be to being irrelevant almost as soon as the victory parade wrapped up.

 

Competitiveness isn't going to be the issue with hockey in Vegas. The issue with a team in Vegas and really the NHL as a whole is that you have a league that dosen't feature a single player that people who aren't hockey fans care about.

 

That's why there's hardly any "casual" hockey fans and virtually every hockey fan I know of grew up with the sport. Nobody in Vegas grew up with hockey so I don't know how they plan on bringing in new fans and more importantly keep them without having marketable personalities, especially in a city that has Carrot Top, Chris Angel, Penn and Teller for entertainment options as well about 1,000 other acts to choose from if none of them strikes your fancy.

 

If and when this team decides to pick up and move nobody will bat an eye.

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