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9 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

Wow. You're really projecting, aren't you? You really should stop assuming that "well if people like X they must like Y and Z!"

It's an uninformed opinion. Worse than that, it's an uninformed opinion with delusions of authority. 

 

No. I hate the Yankees as a team. I hope they never win a World Series title again, personally. 

That being said...they're a team with a tremendous history that includes one of, if not the, best uniforms in baseball. The fact that I think the Yankees ought to respect that tradition doesn't mean I think they should win the World Series every year.

Furthermore, those two opinions aren't even logically linked. We're  on a forum where we discuss team uniforms. Plenty of people here like uniforms of teams they hate, and hate uniforms of teams they like. For you to assume that people who recognise the history behind the Yankees' look must want them to win every year is absurd. 

 

As for for the pinstriped crown cap? Look, a lot of contrarians here don't want to admit this, but history matters. Nothing exists in a vacuum. Every single uniform, from the Yankees' pinstripes to the Diamondbacks' gradient pants, exists within certain contexts that you CANNOT remove them from. 

So with that in mind? The caps with the pinstriped crowns would be tolerated, and even celebrated, because there's historical context to them. There is no historical context for pinstriped brims before now. So one seems historic and the other gimmicky. You're not right for tossing out history and trying to say the two are the same. You're missing the G-ddamn point. You CAN'T remove history from this or any other uniform discussion. It's one of the many contexts these uniforms exist in. 

 

To circle back to my original point of you foolishly trying to claim that "everyone who likes X must think this about Y" though...

I love the tradition of the Yankees uniforms. And I dislike both the caps with the pinstriped crown and the pinstriped brim. For two different reasons.

I dislike the pinstriped brim because it's gimmicky nonsense the Yankees should be above. 

I dislike the pinstriped crown because I do believe there's a line between "traditional" and "old." The Yankees' uniform is traditional. The pinstriped caps are old. They're a relic from before the aesthetic of what made a baseball uniform was really codified. They're fine as alternates now and then to honour the past, but they have no place in a uniform set this day and age.

 

It's the same mentality, and it's all tied in. The Yankees have a "tremendous history" of winning. Winning on the field, not winning uniform contests. The same mentality that makes people believe the Yankees franchise should always field a winning team because it's bad for MLB if they don't, is the same mentality that have people on here feel like the Yankees should be able to wear what they want while every other team has to follow league-wide uniform changes that are insignificant in the first place. It's not that serious.

 

As far as history, you're missing the point. The whole reason I brought up the pinstripe crown was because of history. I'm comparing it to the pinstripe brim as far as looks, because that's where most of the complaints are coming from. If your only argument is that they shouldn't introduce a new cap for their practice games because it doesn't look like anything they've previously worn, then I think that's just over-the-top. The Yankees' regular season uniforms will always be the pinstripes because of the history of winning in them. That's their uniform's "gimmick". I don't think anybody here is suggestion they change that. We're talking about practice games. Practice.

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1 hour ago, daveindc said:

 

It's the same mentality, and it's all tied in. The Yankees have a "tremendous history" of winning. Winning on the field, not winning uniform contests. The same mentality that makes people believe the Yankees franchise should always field a winning team because it's bad for MLB if they don't, is the same mentality that have people on here feel like the Yankees should be able to wear what they want while every other team has to follow league-wide uniform changes that are insignificant in the first place. It's not that serious.

No. It's not "the same mentality" and it's not "all tied in." People who think the Yankees should not mess with their uniforms do not think they should win all the time. It's a generalisation and a falsehood. You doubling down in it, even when presented with evidence to the contrary doesn't make it right. It just makes you look stubborn. 

 

I'll repeat. I don't want to see the Yankees ever win the World Series ever again. And I think they ought to respect the legacy and tradition their uniforms represent. 

 

As far as history, you're missing the point. The whole reason I brought up the pinstripe crown was because of history. I'm comparing it to the pinstripe brim as far as looks, because that's where most of the complaints are coming from. If your only argument is that they shouldn't introduce a new cap for their practice games because it doesn't look like anything they've previously worn, then I think that's just over-the-top. The Yankees' regular season uniforms will always be the pinstripes because of the history of winning in them. That's their uniform's "gimmick". I don't think anybody here is suggestion they change that. We're talking about practice games. Practice.

And as I said it's very likely this "practice" cap will be worn during a regular season game. So I'm not judging them as "practice" caps. I'm judging them as alternates intended for regular season use.

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1 hour ago, Ice_Cap said:

No. It's not "the same mentality" and it's not "all tied in." People who think the Yankees should not mess with their uniforms do not think they should win all the time. It's a generalisation and a falsehood. You doubling down in it, even when presented with evidence to the contrary doesn't make it right. It just makes you look stubborn. 

 

I'll repeat. I don't want to see the Yankees ever win the World Series ever again. And I think they ought to respect the legacy and tradition their uniforms represent. 

 

And as I said it's very likely this "practice" cap will be worn during a regular season game. So I'm not judging them as "practice" caps. I'm judging them as alternates intended for regular season use.

 

So you speaking for yourself is "evidence to the contrary"? I'm not trying to speak for everyone, just giving my opinion based general observations. And as far as Yankees wearing an alt cap during regular season- it's not the end of the world. Their primary uniforms will always be those Yankee pinstripes and navy cap. Why get this worked up over an alt uniform piece- something that every other team in MLB has? Not just this, but getting worked up over the cap manufacture's logo on the cap, or the pinstripes going down the shirttail? It's ridiculous. That's all I'm saying.

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4 minutes ago, daveindc said:

So you speaking for yourself is "evidence to the contrary"? I'm not trying to speak for everyone, just giving my opinion based general observations.

Well here's the thing. You're on a board where people tend to discuss uniforms and logos. And these forums are full, FULL, of people who trash uniforms for teams they like and praise uniforms for teams they hate.

Your assertion that people who don't think the Yankees should mess with their uniform also want them to win all the time is absolutely nonsensical.

 

4 minutes ago, daveindc said:

And as far as Yankees wearing an alt cap during regular season- it's not the end of the world.

Your argument was that this wasn't a big deal because it was just a practice cap. If it ceases to be "just a practice cap" your argument is faulty.

 

4 minutes ago, daveindc said:

Why get this worked up over an alt uniform piece- something that every other team in MLB has? Not just this, but getting worked up over the cap manufacture's logo on the cap, or the pinstripes going down the shirttail? It's ridiculous. That's all I'm saying.

I think you might be on the wrong forum. This is the sort of place that obsesses over those details.

 

As for the points you brought up...I never complained about the manufacturer's logo on the cap, or the pinstripes not going down to the shirttail. So I'm not sure why you're asking me to defend positions I've never advocated for.

Of course over-generalising seems to be your thing. It's a bad habit though. So you should consider stopping it.

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1 minute ago, Ice_Cap said:

Well here's the thing. You're on a board where people tend to discuss uniforms and logos. And these forums are full, FULL, of people who trash uniforms for teams they like and praise uniforms for teams they hate.

So you wanna talk about general observations? You've got nothing. Nothing but a vague generalisation you pulled out of nowhere.

 

But none of these discussions reach the levels it does with the Yankees. No other sports franchise is kept on a pedestal by the fans like the Yankees are, and it's a joke. Non-Yankees fans constantly submit to the perceived superiority. That goes for their team, and their uniforms.

 

1 minute ago, Ice_Cap said:

Your argument was that this wasn't a big deal because it was just a practice cap. If it ceases to be "just a practice cap" your argument is faulty.

 

My argument is the same. A new alt is not the end of the world. If you don't like it just because it's a new piece they've never worn in their history, that's ridiculous. Who cares when you know their primaries will never be touched? If you just don't like the way it looks, then that's just your opinion. They'll be plenty of people that'll love it.

 

1 minute ago, Ice_Cap said:

I think you might be on the wrong forum.

 

Because I don't share the same opinions certain posters? Whatever you say.

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1 hour ago, daveindc said:

 

But none of these discussions reach the levels it does with the Yankees. No other sports franchise is kept on a pedestal by the fans like the Yankees are, and it's a joke. Non-Yankees fans constantly submit to the perceived superiority. That goes for their team, and their uniforms.

Ha! And I thought I had an inferiority complex when it comes to the Yankees!

You're continuing to project and generalise in the service of an argument that your broader point would be better served by abandoning. 

 

Quote

 


My argument is the same. A new alt is not the end of the world. If you don't like it just because it's a new piece they've never worn in their history, that's ridiculous. Who cares when you know their primaries will never be touched? If you just don't like the way it looks, then that's just your opinion. They'll be plenty of people that'll love it.

 

I would be fine if these were just BP/ST caps. If they're going to be worn on the field during the regular season? Then I take issue. 

You're essentially pissed off that someone who disagrees with you is expressing their opinion at this point.

 

 

Quote

Because I don't share the same opinions certain posters? Whatever you say.

 

No, because you're trashing people for expressing their opinion about manufacturer logos, alternate caps, and the like.

This is a forum dedicated to people sharing their opinions on sports logos and uniforms. If people doing that annoys you to the point that you need to denegrate their opinions and call them "ridiculous"? Then yeah, you're on the wrong forum.

 

It's not your opinions that are the problem. It's how you go about sharing them. 

Over-generalising, projecting, and denigrating those who disagree with you are poor ways of conducting a conversation. Online or in person.

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I think it's safe to say that the Yankees have a consensus top 5 jersey in baseball, right? But is it really? Or does it get consideration because it's A. old and B. the Yankees have won 20-whatever titles in it?

 

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15 minutes ago, Ray Lankford said:

I think it's safe to say that the Yankees have a consensus top 5 jersey in baseball, right? But is it really? Or does it get consideration because it's A. old and B. the Yankees have won 20-whatever titles in it?

 

 

As much as I hate the Yankees, they have a top 5 uniform hands down.

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Lord knows I'm biased as all hell, but trying to be as objective as possible: the Yankees unquestionably have a top 5 uniform. I'd put their pinstripes as the head-and-shoulders best uniform in baseball, but I admit there may be some bias playing in there. (Worth noting: I'm a Jets and Rangers fan, but wouldn't call either of their uniforms the best in the NFL or NHL, respectively, so I don't think I'm a blind homer.)

 

The Yankees' pinstripes are what a baseball uniform looks like. Between its history, tradition, recognizability, familiarity, and sheer aesthetic beauty, the pinstripes are one of those uniforms that defines what baseball uniforms are supposed to look like in the public imagination.

 

When you have a beautiful uniform that has stood the test of time, has been worn for 23 world championships (and by the likes of DiMaggio, Mantle, Berra, Jeter, etc.), and is the most recognizable uniform (with the most recognizable cap) in the entire sport, why would you ever water down that identity with alternate uniforms and caps?

 

The Yankees' on-field identity cannot be stronger - we Yankee fans identify strongly with the pinstripes, and the Yankee cap and jersey are both immediately recognizable across the country, even to many who haven't watched a single baseball game in their lives. The notion of the Yanks wearing an alt is anathema to most Yankee fans - you should see the reaction on some Yankees blogs to the mere idea of the Yankees wearing a pinstriped-brim cap in Spring Training. And the Yankees have no problem with moving millions and millions of dollars of merchandise, both on-field items and "fashion" items. Not like there's a great untapped well of merchandise dollars that would open up if the Yanks wore an alt.

 

There's a handful of teams in the majors - the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Cardinals, and Tigers all come to mind - that have aesthetically beautiful uniforms that are steeped in history, tradition, and meaning to their respective fanbases. Watering down their identities with unnecessary alts and caps actively detracts from the strength and meaning of those uniforms.

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IMO, the Yankees don't even have the best pinstriped uniforms in New York. Of course, it's hard for anyone to compete with these:

 

coVZtcb.jpg

 

With that said, ignoring the tradition and just focusing on aesthetics, the Yankees still have a very good look themselves. The only thing that bothers me about their identity is all the different NY monograms they use.

 

YHKGyvm.jpg

 

I wish they would just pick one and use it across all applications. Preferably the cap logo, as it's the most iconic and best designed version. It would look just as good in print, on the helmets and on the front of the jerseys as it does on the caps. They still wouldn't look better than the Mets, but the gap would be a lot closer.

 

As for the pinstriped practice cap, it's a fun idea for Spring Training games that don't count for anything. I hope this is a sign that teams will start experimenting a bit with designs on the bill of the cap. But I also hope that the Yankees will resist the urge to wear it in actual games.

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3 minutes ago, Lights Out said:

With that said, ignoring the tradition and just focusing on aesthetics, the Yankees still have a very good look themselves. The only thing that bothers me about their identity is all the different NY monograms they use.

 

YHKGyvm.jpg

 

Just the like Tigers and their different "D's". 14141847831_22c71cc3fa.jpg

 

 

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I hate the Yankees and their pinstripes are one of sport's great uniforms. Any change to their uniform, even for a single game, would be detrimental, even if it's just a "practice" cap. I'll bet dollars to donuts it shows up in a regular season game because that's what teams do these days. 

 

The next time I go to Yankee Stadium will be my first. When I go I want them to be wearing their classic look. I'll be very disappointed if they're in one of these silly one day caps the league does now. 

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I hate the Yankees. I also think their home white pinstripes are kinda ugly and dull. Their grey road jersey also has very little character.

 

That being said I wouldn't change a thing. The logo is still awesome and the history and simplicity of their brand is untouchable. I don't even mind the inconsistent NYs. 

 

That being said, practice-wear, to me at least, is a chance to try new things and maybe be different and go against tradition since it's

 

1) Not really official outside of the practice/spring training context.

 

2) Gives a chance for traditional teams to create merchandise that belongs to certain eras. 

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On 1/30/2017 at 9:49 AM, Lights Out said:

 

IMO, the Yankees don't even have the best pinstriped uniforms in New York. Of course, it's hard for anyone to compete with these:

 

coVZtcb.jpg

 

 

These Met uniforms are indeed in the same class as the Yankees' uniforms from the standpoint of aesthetics.  

 

The Mets made a series of major errors by altering these beauties, first with the two-button pullover, then with the full pullover with the racing stripe, then with the tail on the wordmark, then with the lack of pinstripes, and finally with the introduction of black.  Thankfully they have returned to their true look.  But, if it had been left untouched, it would be considered as iconic and untouchable as the Yankees' look.


When I was a kid, when we Yankee fans would get involved with arguments with Met fans, the first thing that we'd say to them would be "you have no history".  (They'd say: "Who's won more pennants and World Series in the past five years?")   So it's a bit startling to realise that one can no longer say that about the Mets.  This coming season will be the 56th for the Mets; in other words, they are the same age that the Yankees were in 1958.  So the Mets' true look would be firmly entrenched.  

Instead, you have goofball Met fans running around still wearing black, and seriously suggesting that the racing stripe uniform be brought back.  Winning the World Series does not redeem the racing stripe, which is a good example of the "clown suits" that some of us find distasteful.


 

On 1/30/2017 at 9:49 AM, Lights Out said:

YHKGyvm.jpg

 

I wish they would just pick one and use it across all applications.


 

As late as the mid-1970s, the Yankees had a cap logo that looked a lot like the print logo.  (Note the bottom of the Y, which did not go past the bottom of the N.)

Image result for chris chambliss yankees bobby-murcer-of-the-new-york-yankees-looks-on-during-batting-practice-picture-id133206580?s=594x594 Munson_2.jpg

 

 

And they also had a helmet logo that looked like the jersey logo.

outfielder-reggie-jackson-of-the-new-york-yankees-looks-on-during-a-picture-id104965023?s=594x594 0a0c93bab45969abc163d5967f816984.jpg p-cerone-bat.jpg

 

(Side note: Rick Cerone is the coolest-looking player of all time.)

 

So, a little more uniformity would be possible.  I think that the now-standard hat is better than the hat seen above.  But I think that the current helmet looks bad, and would look better with a logo similar to the 1970s/1980s logo.

 

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2 hours ago, Lights Out said:

IMO, the Yankees don't even have the best pinstriped uniforms in New York. Of course, it's hard for anyone to compete with these:

 

coVZtcb.jpg

 

With that said, ignoring the tradition and just focusing on aesthetics, the Yankees still have a very good look themselves. The only thing that bothers me about their identity is all the different NY monograms they use.

 

YHKGyvm.jpg

 

I wish they would just pick one and use it across all applications. Preferably the cap logo, as it's the most iconic and best designed version. It would look just as good in print, on the helmets and on the front of the jerseys as it does on the caps. They still wouldn't look better than the Mets, but the gap would be a lot closer.

 

As for the pinstriped practice cap, it's a fun idea for Spring Training games that don't count for anything. I hope this is a sign that teams will start experimenting a bit with designs on the bill of the cap. But I also hope that the Yankees will resist the urge to wear it in actual games.

I'm torn between the cap and jersey logos. The print logo is an abomination.

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3 hours ago, kroywen said:

The Yankees' on-field identity cannot be stronger - we Yankee fans identify strongly with the pinstripes, and the Yankee cap and jersey are both immediately recognizable across the country, even to many who haven't watched a single baseball game in their lives. The notion of the Yanks wearing an alt is anathema to most Yankee fans - you should see the reaction on some Yankees blogs to the mere idea of the Yankees wearing a pinstriped-brim cap in Spring Training. And the Yankees have no problem with moving millions and millions of dollars of merchandise, both on-field items and "fashion" items. Not like there's a great untapped well of merchandise dollars that would open up if the Yanks wore an alt.

 

That's a very good point you make here.

 

I always enjoy watching Yankee fans squirm when I ask them "You have to have one. Which would you rather have: an alt or names on back?"

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2 hours ago, McCarthy said:

I hate the Yankees and their pinstripes are one of sport's great uniforms. Any change to their uniform, even for a single game, would be detrimental, even if it's just a "practice" cap. I'll bet dollars to donuts it shows up in a regular season game because that's what teams do these days. 

 

The next time I go to Yankee Stadium will be my first. When I go I want them to be wearing their classic look. I'll be very disappointed if they're in one of these silly one day caps the league does now. 

 

The Yankees have worn BP hats in games before, I think the pinstripe brim looks better than plain white.

Yankees-White-BP-Cap-2013-Alex-Rodriguez.jpg

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1 hour ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

Instead, you have goofball Met fans running around still wearing black, and seriously suggesting that the racing stripe uniform be brought back.  Winning the World Series does not redeem the racing stripe, which is a good example of the "clown suits" that some of us find distasteful.

 

I love my black Piazza uniform and I'll keep wearing it till I die! 

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15 minutes ago, insert name said:
2 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

Instead, you have goofball Met fans running around still wearing black, and seriously suggesting that the racing stripe uniform be brought back.  Winning the World Series does not redeem the racing stripe, which is a good example of the "clown suits" that some of us find distasteful.

 

I love my black Piazza uniform and I'll keep wearing it till I die! 

 

Or you could honour Piazza with a proper blue and orange Met jersey, like a civilised person.

Image result for mike piazza mets

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48 minutes ago, ltjets21 said:

The Yankees have worn BP hats in games before, I think the pinstripe brim looks better than plain white.

Yankees-White-BP-Cap-2013-Alex-Rodriguez.jpg

 

Yeah that's my point. If they have the hat they'll probably wear it in a real game.

 

Pinstriped may look better than white, but both will look worse than the classic hat. 

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