ARTnSocal

Chief Wahoo having passport problems at Toronto airport

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47 minutes ago, BeerGuyJordan said:

I actually just moved back to Tucson, from Bemidji, MN. I work for the Tohono O'odham tribe. I'm a complete mutt. My dad is one quarter Navajo, and my mom is half Cherokee and one quarter Lumbee.

 

 

Cherokee (aren't we all? B)) here. I am a direct descendant of this guy..

 

qac59sab_medium.jpg

 

That's George "Chief of All" Sizemore.

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1 hour ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

Can I take this moment to point out how brilliant the title of this thread is? Just wanted to make that clear. Good job.

I second this.

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Some of you need to read the article. This is one "indigeneous activist" as quoted in the piece: it's not "they", it's not "Ontario".

 

Anyways, it's a different issue in Canada than it is in the US. I don't find it bush league because no one could give a flying f--k about the Cleveland Indians in Canada during the regular season. They're in the limelight now that they are in the ALCS with the nation's only team, First Nations issues get a lot of play at home (rightfully so), and so I see it as perfect timing rather than the other way around.

 

I find the whole argument of coming off as whiny, petulant, and childish because the Indians are in the ALCS incredibly bizarre as if anyone who isn't a sports fan even knows there is a baseball team in Cleveland. It's being brought up now because it's more relevant in Canada now than at any other time. Context is everything.

 

Regardless of my opinion on the Indians identity, I am more concerned with diminishing racial slurs and culturally insensitive material than promoting "good timing".

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2 hours ago, lopernv said:

no one could give a flying f--k about the Cleveland Indians in Canada during the regular season. They're in the limelight now

 

That is why I used the term bush league. It desaturates the argument. It makes it seem as though it's fine, until they hit (inter)national tv. And clearly, it's not.

 

Like I said previously, I don't like Wahoo. I won't buy it/wear it. I'd love to own a Bob Feller throwback, but I won't because of the yellow-skinned character on the sleeve.

 

I've spent some time on reservations in my youth, and a lot of young native men were wearing Wahoo caps. Wasn't sure if it was a sense of pride, or in a mocking matter. 

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5 hours ago, lopernv said:

Some of you need to read the article. This is one "indigeneous activist" as quoted in the piece: it's not "they", it's not "Ontario".

 

Anyways, it's a different issue in Canada than it is in the US. I don't find it bush league because no one could give a flying f--k about the Cleveland Indians in Canada during the regular season. They're in the limelight now that they are in the ALCS with the nation's only team, First Nations issues get a lot of play at home (rightfully so), and so I see it as perfect timing rather than the other way around.

 

I find the whole argument of coming off as whiny, petulant, and childish because the Indians are in the ALCS incredibly bizarre as if anyone who isn't a sports fan even knows there is a baseball team in Cleveland. It's being brought up now because it's more relevant in Canada now than at any other time. Context is everything.

 

Regardless of my opinion on the Indians identity, I am more concerned with diminishing racial slurs and culturally insensitive material than promoting "good timing".

I still think if he truly cared about this specific issue he would have requested banning Wahoo years ago. That's why this particular person's case seems disingenuous. I'm conflicted with the  Wahoo debate because I feel that a logo similar to what the Redskins use would be positively received, much better than the blandness of block C that we use now. 

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14 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

I still think if he truly cared about this specific issue he would have requested banning Wahoo years ago. That's why this particular person's case seems disingenuous. I'm conflicted with the  Wahoo debate because I feel that a logo similar to what the Redskins use would be positively received, much better than the blandness of block C that we use now. 

Then you're not conflicted about Wahoo because what you're describing isn't Wahoo as we've known him.

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True, but the Indians did use a logo in the 20's similar to what the Braves used in the 30's. 

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What @ARTnSocal , @GoGamecocks29 , and @Ark don't seem to get is that this didn't just pop up now. Believe it or not? People here in Ontario have been talking about the Indians' logo being racist for years. As long as I've been paying attention anyway. You guys never hearing anything about it doesn't mean it hasn't been talked about.

 

Further? @lopernv is right on the money. This isn't the government of Canada, the government of Ontario, or even the Toronto Blue Jays team doing this. It was an activist, a private citizen, who cares deeply for a cause who asked a judge to intervene. People who go on about this coming out of nowhere or who think this was somehow the government of Ontario "wasting time" on a baseball logo clearly didn't read the story beyond the headline.

 

As for why now? Well Mr. Cardinal obviously cares about this issue, and the fact that a pro team in North America in the 21st century is using what amounts to a racist cartoon for a logo. And the Cardinals are playing the Jays in a high profile series. He's doing what all good activists do. Trying to strike when the iron's hot.

 

Now I think Wahoo is racist and indefensible, but I don't think banning his use was the right way to go about this. I think Douglas Cardinal has his heart in the right place, and I broadly agree with him. I also agree with the judge who dismissed the whole thing.

That being said? To write this off as "bush league," "out of nowhere," the Ontario government "wasting time," or "sour grapes" is to put your ignorance of the situation on full display.

 

48 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

True, but the Indians did use a logo in the 20's similar to what the Braves used in the 30's. 

Are you talking about these logos?

Respectful updates of either of those marks would have probably been preferable to the racist cartoon they went with, yeah. Again though, that's not what they did. If things were totally different things would have been totally different, but that's not where we are. Wahoo, as we currently know him, is unacceptable.

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I've found it interesting with this subject that people are offended by the Indians logo yet you don't hear similar problems with the Padres logo. They seem very similar in a goofy cartoon style to me, kind of to a throwback era. Not trying to make a judgement and I get that there are many levels of issues regarding Chief Wahoo, just pointing it out that I kind of see more similarities in the logos than differences.

 

san-diego-padres-swining-friar-logo.gifchief-wahoo-logo-02.jpg

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8 minutes ago, hawk36 said:

I've found it interesting with this subject that people are offended by the Indians logo yet you don't hear similar problems with the Padres logo. They seem very similar in a goofy cartoon style to me, kind of to a throwback era. Not trying to make a judgement and I get that there are many levels of issues regarding Chief Wahoo, just pointing it out that I kind of see more similarities in the logos than differences.

 

 

A Padre isn't a race of people.

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2 minutes ago, daniel75 said:

 

A Padre isn't a race of people.

Right but it could be argued it represents Catholics. Again, not trying to say that makes Wahoo ok. Just wondering why I've never heard Catholics or even priests or friars be offended by the Padres' goofy representation of them.  

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19 minutes ago, hawk36 said:

Right but it could be argued it represents Catholics. Again, not trying to say that makes Wahoo ok. Just wondering why I've never heard Catholics or even priests or friars be offended by the Padres' goofy representation of them.  

To be fair, the skin color of the padre in the logo is not a reference to a racial slur.

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4 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

To be fair, the skin color of the padre in the logo is not a reference to a racial slur.

So do you think the color of the face is the major part of the offense people feel? I can see that having a slight effect but more so, to me, would be how Louis Francis Sockalexis is cartoonized. Here is a quick mock up.

RealIndian.jpg

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6 minutes ago, hawk36 said:

So do you think the color of the face is the major part of the offense people feel? I can see that having a slight effect but more so, to me, would be how Louis Francis Sockalexis is cartoonized. Here is a quick mock up.

 

No, it's just the red skin color is an obvious reference to redskin. The Padres logo just looks like a happy swinging friar.

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Sorry to be randomly barging in with a slightly random comment but last time I checked, I thought that these types of threads about Native sports logos were no longer allowed on this site. I was wondering if I could please have an explanation, hopefully from a moderator. I apologize if people think I'm trying to shut this thread down because that is not what I'm trying to do. I would just like to know because there have been other topics about Native sports logos and team names that have been shut down in the past and since they have been shut down, I would just like to know why this topic hasn't been shut down as well. 

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1 minute ago, Chewbacca said:

Sorry to be randomly barging in with a slightly random comment but last time I checked, I thought that these types of threads about Native sports logos were no longer allowed on this site. I was wondering if I could please have an explanation, hopefully from a moderator. I apologize if people think I'm trying to shut this thread down because that is not what I'm trying to do. I would just like to know because there have been other topics about Native sports logos and team names that have been shut down in the past and since they have been shut down, I would just like to know why this topic hasn't been shut down as well. 

Standard policy is for these topics to be shut down. 

That being said? This is a sports logo and uniform message board. The general consensus is that these topics will remain open so long as the discussion is, more or less, civil. 

 

Hopefully we can get enough of these sorts of topics that don't descend into name calling. When that happens? We can hopefully revoke the official ban on these topics all together.

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7 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

Standard policy is for these topics to be shut down. 

That being said? This is a sports logo and uniform message board. The general consensus is that these topics will remain open so long as the discussion is, more or less, civil. 

 

Hopefully we can get enough of these sorts of topics that don't descend into name calling. When that happens? We can hopefully revoke the official ban on these topics all together.

That sounds pretty reasonable. Thank you, I appreciate your explanation.

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I was wondering the same thing about this topic but to everyone's credit we've been fair and civil and reasonable. Good job everyone involved. With that said, we've probably already made most of the points already so I don't think this will drag on much longer at least in this thread.

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I wanted to get an all navy wahoo hat with the world series patch....they only made the navy block c and the red billed wahoo. Usually teams try to cash out on everything surprised it's not there same with the red block c hat.

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