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Chief Wahoo having passport problems at Toronto airport

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11 minutes ago, ltjets21 said:

I wanted to get an all navy wahoo hat with the world series patch....they only made the navy block c and the red billed wahoo. Usually teams try to cash out on everything surprised it's not there same with the red block c hat.

I think MLB used the official home and away hats, which for the road is the block C.

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Huh? But didn't they wear the all navy Wahoo last night? Why wouldn't they sell those?

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18 hours ago, hawk36 said:

I've found it interesting with this subject that people are offended by the Indians logo yet you don't hear similar problems with the Padres logo. They seem very similar in a goofy cartoon style to me, kind of to a throwback era. Not trying to make a judgement and I get that there are many levels of issues regarding Chief Wahoo, just pointing it out that I kind of see more similarities in the logos than differences.

 

san-diego-padres-swining-friar-logo.gifchief-wahoo-logo-02.jpg

 

There wasn't a government sponsored genocide of Spanish priests in the United States.

 

2016 and we are really still having this discussion?

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2 minutes ago, CLEstones said:

 

There wasn't a genocide of Spanish priests in the United Stated.

 

2016 and we are really still having this discussion?

Another good point...

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18 hours ago, hawk36 said:

Right but it could be argued it represents Catholics. 

 

This would be relevant if the Padres logo had some sort of molestation/child imagery in it.

 

...But since it doesn't, your take is friggin' staggering.

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2 hours ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

Huh? But didn't they wear the all navy Wahoo last night? Why wouldn't they sell those?

 

Odd they wouldn't sell those but they sold the Cardinals Sunday caps in 2013 which were never worn in the series.

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On 10/18/2016 at 1:28 PM, SilverBullet1929 said:

 

You answered your own question. It's bush league because the timing makes it absolutely for attention. Yes the argument is legitimate, I don't think anyone is denying that, but the timing is what screams "look at me and look at me now." It comes off more like a whining child looking for attention than a serious adult looking for debate.

 

With that said, the squeaky wheel gets the oil so while being bush league, maybe it works?

 

"I prefer for protests to come in a manner, timing, and venue that allows me to politely ignore them."

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In the case of the logo, it's mostly offensive because of the red skin. Otherwise it would work as a face for almost anything. It honestly looks it could be used for a clown face, or on a pumpkin... (No, I'm not being racist, look at the logo as if it wasn't supposed to be a Native American)

I don't think that the offensive nature comes from it being a caricature. It looks really nothing like a person, let alone a stereotypical Native American. I think the Indians at the very least should drop the red skin on the logo. It'll still be a little offensive, but it works to please both parties a little more...

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19 hours ago, hawk36 said:

Right but it could be argued it represents Catholics. Again, not trying to say that makes Wahoo ok. Just wondering why I've never heard Catholics or even priests or friars be offended by the Padres' goofy representation of them.  

Friar is a profession, not a race.

 

"Catholic" is a faith, not a race.

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Why is it people find Chief Wahoo offensive but don't find Alfred E Neuman or the Super Mario Bros offensive? I'm Italian and my friends always mimic the Mario Bros when they talk to me "Its-a Me Mario" "Mamma Mia" Lets-a Go-a" in a degrading manner speaking with their hands and using the "bad English".

 

I tell you people are very selective with racism,  making fun of a certain ethnicity, or what they deem offensive.

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20 minutes ago, The Giant Pacific Octopus said:

Why is it people find Chief Wahoo offensive but don't find Alfred E Neuman or the Super Mario Bros offensive? I'm Italian and my friends always mimic the Mario Bros when they talk to me "Its-a Me Mario" "Mamma Mia" Lets-a Go-a" in a degrading manner speaking with their hands and using the "bad English".

 

I tell you people are very selective with racism,  making fun of a certain ethnicity, or what they deem offensive.

 

We Italians are not an oppressed people in the United States.

 

We were an oppressed group at one time, back in the late 19th Century and the early 20th Century.  In fact, our arrival en masse to the U.S. helped spur the eugenics movement, the proponents of which held that people from southern European stock were racially inferior to the Anglos and Germans and other northern Europeans who predominated in the American population.

Even as late as the 1930s, Italians were not considered "white", and were still an "other" in the U.S.  When Joe D. came to the Yankees, he was considered exotic.  A Life magazine piece on him read: "Instead of olive oil or smelly bear grease, he keeps his hair slick with water. He never reeks of garlic…."

DiMaggio became a hero not only to Italians, but to other Latins, especially to New York's Puerto Ricans.  However, Joe D.'s rise to stardom signalled a turning point in the sociological history of Italians in the U.S.; from that point on we were considered "white".  And part of that bargain was that we lost all of our empathy for our fellow Latins.  We no longer saw other oppressed groups as our fellows; instead, we, as "white" people, perceived our interests as aligning with society's dominant groups, not with its marginal groups.

We Italians spent the 20th Century trying to become "white".  And we achieved that goal, at the cost of a good portion of our humanity.

So a figure such as Mario, had it existed in the 1890s or the 1910s, might have been an example of racial hatred, and therefore comparable to Chief Wahoo.  But, because it was created in the 1980s, it carries no weight of perpetuating the dehumanisation and the mockery of an oppressed group.

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59 minutes ago, CLEstones said:

 

This would be relevant if the Padres logo had some sort of molestation/child imagery in it.

 

...But since it doesn't, your take is friggin' staggering.

Saying a logo portraying molestation is the same as a logo portraying a goofy looking person is completely off base. That, to me, is staggering.

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50 minutes ago, hawk36 said:

Saying a logo portraying molestation is the same as a logo portraying a goofy looking person is completely off base. That, to me, is staggering.

 

A goofy looking person?  I'm not sure if you know this... but Native American's are/were living, breathing, fully functional human beings.  They weren't teletubbies.

 

Chief Wahoo has stereotypical imagery of Native American's, including red color skin, which was a derogatory term for the Native American's.  As previously mentioned, the United State government sponsored and encouraged US American's to pillage, loot, and murder Native American's in order to force them off their land.  The land that the Native American's discovered, cultivated, founded their civilizations on, made memories, and raised their family on, in order to fulfill the notion of American Manifest Destiny.

 

In other words, the governing body, who was founded on "Liberty and justice for All," sponsored the stripping of liberty and promoted injustice towards the Native's without repercussion.  In other words, heinous acts were perpetrated against a group of people with the support and backing of the Government.  ALL AGAINST THEIR WILL.

 

If the Padres logo had molestation/child imagery on it, it would echo the same principals.  Catholic Priests perpetrated heinous, unspeakable acts against defenseless children.  ALL AGAINST THEIR WILL.  The governing body (read: Catholic Church), chose to ignore them and cover them up.

Edited by Ice_Cap
Keep things civil, avoid insults

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11 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

We Italians are not an oppressed people in the United States.

 

So a figure such as Mario, had it existed in the 1890s or the 1910s, might have been an example of racial hatred, and therefore comparable to Chief Wahoo.  But, because it was created in the 1980s, it carries no weight of perpetuating the dehumanisation and the mockery of an oppressed group.

 

Riight. So that justifies making fun of a certain ethnicity then right? Because Italians aren't oppressed and we are considered white  that makes us fair game to be ridiculed and made fun of? I tell you when someone tries to justify racism towards a certain race or ethnicity it makes it even more offensive to me.

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I for one found it a bit ironic (and hilarious for that matter) that the Indians went with the Chief Wahoo hat last night. Seemed to me it was a big "up yours" to Toronto on their way to the World Series. 

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1 hour ago, VikWings said:

 

Odd they wouldn't sell those but they sold the Cardinals Sunday caps in 2013 which were never worn in the series.

Cardinals wore the Sunday caps for Game 4

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I think some of you guys are crazy. All I see in this logo is a cartoon Indian that is colored red. It's funny that there are Non-Indians arguing with other non-Indians that an Indian logo is offensive lol. Yea, Im sure some Indians don't like the name but I bet you a lot of actual Indians do like it. Let them decide, its not our decision. 

 

 

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You don't have to be of native descent to know that a caricature of a Native American with red skin is racist. It's no different from blackface.

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35 minutes ago, CLEstones said:

 

A goofy looking person?  I'm not sure if you know this... but Native American's are/were living, breathing, fully functional human beings.  They weren't teletubbies.

Yes, and I'm one of them. My grandmother was born on the Apache Indian reservation in Benson Arizona so I know well that WE are fully functional human beings.

Edited by Ice_Cap
Getting rid of personal insults

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People from all over see the Indians and Chief Wahoo as whatever they want to. 

 

For me, growing up in Tucson AZ in the late 80s early 90s, the Indians were practically our team. I remember every spring practically living at Hi Corbett Field rocking my Indians shirt and Chief Wahoo hat. But again, I am thankful to grow up in a time where everyone wasn't offended by each and everything they saw or heard, and just enjoyed the game of baseball. 

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