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Chicago Baseball Discussion: Cubs & White Sox


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1 hour ago, Alex Houston said:

 

Let me try this again. I think it would be tough for people to follow that example because it's head-to-head, not that your advocating for a larger cause. 

 

Let me try this again. I said "talking trash is aggravating." Where is there an "example to follow" in that statement? What example? What does "head-to-head" have to do with it? I swear I'm not trying to be difficult or give you a hard time. I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say. 

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1 hour ago, Rj0498 said:

Don't forget the blackhawks if there is one thing I have learned over the years is that the hawks have very obnoxious fans

^^^^ I hate a lot of teams, Including the Blackhawks, but their fans are definitely the worst. You want to sit down and talk hockey with them? Most of the time, you get annyoing fans who scream "WHOOOOO KANE TOWES (That's how they pronounce his name) SHARP!!!!" You then decide to talk to them about those guys, saying Kane and Toews haven't been playing too good this year, and Sharps been out for a while in Dallas... Then then reply "3 CUPS IN 6 YEARS" and "Why the **** is Sharp in Dallas? Shouldn't he be at practice in Chicago???" 

 

Sorry about side rant

/continue Cubs-Sox discussion

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1 hour ago, infrared41 said:

 

Let me try this again. I said "talking trash is aggravating." Where is there an "example to follow" in that statement? What example? What does "head-to-head" have to do with it? I swear I'm not trying to be difficult or give you a hard time. I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say. 

 

Haha. All I was saying is that since sports are based in competition, I think fans will always be predisposed to trash talking each other. When your teams are competing for a championship, it's hard to be fair, especially if one side is showboating a bunch. Even if both franchises didn't win a whole lot, like in the case of the Cubs and Sox, the teasing and prodding still proves to be alive and well ?

 

I think that's as clear as I can explain it. Hope this helps.

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1 hour ago, Rj0498 said:

Don't forget the blackhawks if there is one thing I have learned over the years is that the hawks have very obnoxious fans

 

Maybe that one thing you learned should've been sentence structure and punctuation. 

 

 

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8 hours ago, DDR said:

 

Maybe that one thing you learned should've been sentence structure and punctuation. 

 

 

Hmm maybe so but I figured that since this is a forum structure and punctuation didn't matter my bad

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8 hours ago, chcarlson23 said:

^^^^ I hate a lot of teams, Including the Blackhawks, but their fans are definitely the worst. You want to sit down and talk hockey with them? Most of the time, you get annyoing fans who scream "WHOOOOO KANE TOWES (That's how they pronounce his name) SHARP!!!!" You then decide to talk to them about those guys, saying Kane and Toews haven't been playing too good this year, and Sharps been out for a while in Dallas... Then then reply "3 CUPS IN 6 YEARS" and "Why the **** is Sharp in Dallas? Shouldn't he be at practice in Chicago???" 

 

Sorry about side rant

/continue Cubs-Sox discussion

 

 

How dare those casual hockey fans be so casual?  Hockey needs those fans, and it's jerkoff sentiments like that which drive people away from liking the sport.  Maybe if you people in your position weren't unlikeable pricks about America's deep-4th major sport, there'd be more people watching and learning.

 

-------

 

Quote

Don't forget the blackhawks if there is one thing I have learned over the years is that the hawks have very obnoxious fans

 

Only obnoxious because they have to deal with buffoons on message boards.

 

Just now, Rj0498 said:

Hmm maybe so but I figured that since this is a forum structure and punctuation didn't matter my bad

 

Example here.  Learn to read and write properly before vomiting idiocy everywhere like a shotgun of stupidity.

 

--------

 

 

 

If you're looking for a team to hate, there's one in Happy Valley that's ideal to vent upon, plus there's a great baseball church in St. Louis that always requires being knocked down a peg or two.  Go hate on Baylor.  Go be a douche to the Patriots and their spoiled fan base.  


Or just don't be a douche at all.

 

Unless you're me.  I get to be a douche.  Because I know how grammar and spelling works.  Mostly.

 

Somteims.  ; on ocasion 

 

ok {?

 

 

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1 minute ago, CS85 said:

 

 

How dare those casual hockey fans be so casual?  Hockey needs those fans, and it's jerkoff sentiments like that which drive people away from liking the sport.  Maybe if you people in your position weren't unlikeable pricks about America's deep-4th major sport, there'd be more people watching and learning.

 

-------

 

 

Only obnoxious because they have to deal with buffoons on message boards.

 

 

Example here.  Learn to read and write properly before vomiting idiocy everywhere like a shotgun of stupidity.

 

--------

 

 

 

If you're looking for a team to hate, there's one in Happy Valley that's ideal to vent upon, plus there's a great baseball church in St. Louis that always requires being knocked down a peg or two.  Go hate on Baylor.  Go be a douche to the Patriots and their spoiled fan base.  


Or just don't be a douche at all.

 

Unless you're me.  I get to be a douche.  Because I know how grammar and spelling works.  Mostly.

 

Somteims.  ; on ocasion 

 

ok {?

 

 

Again my apologies if my structure and grammar are not up to snuff but I was merely saying that most hawks fans I come across act incredibly rude and condescending I was not trying come across as a douche

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16 minutes ago, Rj0498 said:

Again my apologies if my structure and grammar are not up to snuff but I was merely saying that most hawks fans I come across act incredibly rude and condescending I was not trying come across as a douche

 

Sorry if I vented on you a bit, but if you think Blackhawks fans act rude/condescending, there's gotta be more to the story.  There's assbag people everywhere, but I'm guessing you've had maybe 3 or 4 bad experiences with jerks and have now painted the entire fandom as negative.

 

I admit I do the same thing with the Cardinals fans - secretly I'm friends with waaaay more Cardinals fans than Cubs fans (I live in Cardinal fandom's northernmost reaches in Illinois) and they're all very warm, friendly people who only break my Cub-fan balls in the gentlest and jokiest ways.  They tolerate my legitimate hatred of their franchise quite well, and are on the whole knowledgeable of sports.  They're just sports fans who happen to root for a team I don't like.  Same with Packers fans.  

 

There's some Canuck fans on this board I've scuffled with but it's just passion playing out.  People being jerks over sports is, on the whole, stupid.  I admit I am guilty of this on multiple marks, but then again I'm kind of a stupid, over-emotional lummox.  

 

Basically try to see the forest through the trees regarding sports fandom.

 

2 minutes ago, Rj0498 said:

Also I'd like to think the stupidity I vomit up is through a revolver of stupidity since revolvers are cooler

 

How about a Super Soaker?  One with the giant backpack.

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1 minute ago, CS85 said:

 

Sorry if I vented on you a bit, but if you think Blackhawks fans act rude/condescending, there's gotta be more to the story.  There's assbag people everywhere, but I'm guessing you've had maybe 3 or 4 bad experiences with jerks and have now painted the entire fandom as negative.

 

I admit I do the same thing with the Cardinals fans - secretly I'm friends with waaaay more Cardinals fans than Cubs fans (I live in Cardinal fandom's northernmost reaches in Illinois) and they're all very warm, friendly people who only break my Cub-fan balls in the gentlest and jokiest ways.  They tolerate my legitimate hatred of their franchise quite well, and are on the whole knowledgeable of sports.  They're just sports fans who happen to root for a team I don't like.  Same with Packers fans.  

 

There's some Canuck fans on this board I've scuffled with but it's just passion playing out.  People being jerks over sports is, on the whole, stupid.  I admit I am guilty of this on multiple marks, but then again I'm kind of a stupid, over-emotional lummox.  

 

Basically try to see the forest through the trees regarding sports fandom.

 

 

How about a Super Soaker?  One with the giant backpack.

Its all good I am a timberwolves fan in family full of Lakers fans so I take plenty of crap from them also I would totally take that super soaker that is even cooler 

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1 hour ago, CS85 said:

How dare those casual hockey fans be so casual?  Hockey needs those fans, and it's jerkoff sentiments like that which drive people away from liking the sport.  Maybe if you people in your position weren't unlikeable pricks about America's deep-4th major sport, there'd be more people watching and learning.

I guess I did forget to mention that those kinda people aren't the ones you'd meet in Chicago, but rather the ones you'd meet almost anywhere else. And I don't mind casual fans... But a lot of the Hawks fans, who jump on the bandwagon, and yell and scream like I described them, are the ones who still haven't figured out that the Hawks didn't win it all last year...

And I don't think fans calling other fans bandwagoners is what is preventing the game from growing. Every other sport has the same problem with bandwagon fans...

 

And like I said, I don't mind the casual fan, or even the fan who only starts to pay attention when their team is winning (Emphasis on THEIR). It's the annoying fans who jump team to team, and scream in your ear about how good their team is. Yeah, your teams are great, because they always win every year! But geez-a-freaking-lou, just pick a team and stay with them for more than the playoffs! And it's no necessarily jumping from team to team, but more being one of THOSE fans who is annoying every time they open their mouth about the team.

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5 minutes ago, chcarlson23 said:

I guess I did forget to mention that those kinda people aren't the ones you'd meet in Chicago, but rather the ones you'd meet almost anywhere else. And I don't mind casual fans... But a lot of the Hawks fans, who jump on the bandwagon, and yell and scream like I described them, are the ones who still haven't figured out that the Hawks didn't win it all last year...

And I don't think fans calling other fans bandwagoners is what is preventing the game from growing. Every other sport has the same problem with bandwagon fans...

 

And like I said, I don't mind the casual fan, or even the fan who only starts to pay attention when their team is winning (Emphasis on THEIR). It's the annoying fans who jump team to team, and scream in your ear about how good their team is. Yeah, your teams are great, because they always win every year! But geez-a-freaking-lou, just pick a team and stay with them for more than the playoffs! And it's no necessarily jumping from team to team, but more being one of THOSE fans who is annoying every time they open their mouth about the team.

Maybe I've just been "lucky," but I've never met a fan who jumps from winning team to winning team.

Bandwagon fans exist, yeah, but as many people have said. That's not a big deal. Sports, from a fan's perspective, are about having fun. 

And in my experience? People who become fans of a team for bandwagony reasons stay fans of the team. Even if the initial spark for them joining that team's fandom was less than "authentic." 

 

This fan who's a Yankees fan one year, a Cardinals fan the next year, and a Cubs fan now? I've never run across that person. 

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11 hours ago, chcarlson23 said:

^^^^ I hate a lot of teams, Including the Blackhawks, but their fans are definitely the worst. You want to sit down and talk hockey with them? Most of the time, you get annyoing fans who scream "WHOOOOO KANE TOWES (That's how they pronounce his name) SHARP!!!!" You then decide to talk to them about those guys, saying Kane and Toews haven't been playing too good this year, and Sharps been out for a while in Dallas... Then then reply "3 CUPS IN 6 YEARS" and "Why the **** is Sharp in Dallas? Shouldn't he be at practice in Chicago???" 

(deep breath)

 

MOD EDIT

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6 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

 

This fan who's a Yankees fan one year, a Cardinals fan the next year, and a Cubs fan now? I've never run across that person. 

 

You absolutely have, Mike

 

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The Yankees/Steelers/Laker fan was much more common in grade school. Most of those people eventually grow out of that and connect with the local team at some point. I've never really understood the people who want to root for a team in a city they have no geographic connection to. .

 

Also, if you move to a new city it is 100% okay to pull for your new local teams as long as they're not playing your old diehard. I know at least 20 new Cubs/Blackhawks fans who have done this. They moved to Chicago after college. It's unreasonable to expect them not get swept up in everything that's happening around them. I can't say I would resist as I was the guy who bought a Seahawks hat for their Patriots Super Bowl when I lived in Seattle. 

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20 hours ago, McCarthy said:

The Yankees/Steelers/Laker fan was much more common in grade school. Most of those people eventually grow out of that and connect with the local team at some point. I've never really understood the people who want to root for a team in a city they have no geographic connection to. .

 

Also, if you move to a new city it is 100% okay to pull for your new local teams as long as they're not playing your old diehard. I know at least 20 new Cubs/Blackhawks fans who have done this. They moved to Chicago after college. It's unreasonable to expect them not get swept up in everything that's happening around them. I can't say I would resist as I was the guy who bought a Seahawks hat for their Patriots Super Bowl when I lived in Seattle. 

Yep as someone who has lived in Texas for about 15 years I have gradually grown to like the cowboys and whenever they are on I find myself rooting for them (except games against my team skol vikings) so of course I am excited to see them play so well

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On 11/6/2016 at 0:37 PM, Alex Houston said:

 

I feel like I kind of have to restate the obvious here, but Bridgeport and Lakeview are extremely opposite neighborhoods, more so now than before, which helps explain the stark contrast of the Sox and Cubs fanbases. Lakeview over decades transformed from big lots for people to get away from downtown, into an urbanizing area that attracted single people, non married folks and eventually the LGBT crowd. It was that development that attracted Wrigley to set up the stadium there in the first place, so way before al of us were glints in our father's eyes, the Cubs were being set up for a distinct advantage.

 

Comiskey, on the other hand, made a bad choice to buy his plot off 35th and Shields where his neighbors were Upton Sinclair's magnum opus and a soon to be historically black neighborhood. So it was never going to be easy down the road, when technology and tastes change, for the Sox to be as competitive as the Cubs in the entertainment department. Like I've said before, ownership decisions have hurt, but even if they got some crazy Mark Cuban-esque type who came from Joliet and wanted to radically reshape the Sox at their current spot, there's not as much you can do now. You have train tracks to the left, the ever imposing "ghetto" straight to the south, a really unknown college to the right and Chinatown to the north. So where exactly is 'Soxtown' or 'The Sox Strip' supposed to be? Only now is Bridgeport getting sort of gentrified, with a weird mix of the three story condo units beginning to dwarf the smaller, aged homes similar to mine because displaced UIC and IIT kids are coming in from Pilsen and University Village. It would be great to offer them something they could walk do and drink in the neighborhood but look at the map. Where could you put something like that?

 

Screen_Shot_2016_11_06_at_12_22_20_PM.pn

 

Sure, if Comiskey had bought his land near 31st and MLK Drive, they could've built a picturesque stadium a la Pac Bell Park (or whatever it is now) but alas, this is the hand that's dealt. They displaced folks before and I just don't see where any entertainment even close to Wrigley could really be added.

 

I'm battling a cold so my thoughts are sort of muddled, but the gist is the Sox were already doomed from the start by a couple key bad breaks. 

 

The back half of the 20th Century definitely hurt the Sox. The teams were both in basically middle class/working class ethnic areas. Here's a Chicago income map gif 1970-2012

Then demographics started shifting, the Cubs went from being in a money-adjacent middle class neighborhood to a full-on gentrified yuppieville while the area the Sox was witness to every tale of urban development of the last 100 years- demographic, economic, and political dynamics all playing out around them- basically Cleveland. What the Sox do have going for them is that they have the most transportation-friendly facility in Chicago. The combined transit and car access is hard to top anywhere. But that's only handy when things are going well.

 

I think the early 90s were the last point the current Cub/Sox dynamic could have changed. The happy blue skies WGN good times Cub image wasn't fully entrenched, and the Sox had a good young core with cool new uniforms and were winning games consistently which was novel for Chicago baseball. But Cleveland emerged about the same time, the strike happened, bad choices were made, and things didn't work out.

 

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8 minutes ago, RichO said:

What the Sox do have going for them is that they have the most transportation-friendly facility in Chicago. The combined transit and car access is hard to top anywhere.

 

Getting to, ugh, G-Rate Field is easy as pie.  One of the most convenient venues in baseball.

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1 hour ago, RichO said:

 

The back half of the 20th Century definitely hurt the Sox. The teams were both in basically middle class/working class ethnic areas. Here's a Chicago income map gif 1970-2012

Then demographics started shifting, the Cubs went from being in a money-adjacent middle class neighborhood to a full-on gentrified yuppieville while the area the Sox was witness to every tale of urban development of the last 100 years- demographic, economic, and political dynamics all playing out around them- basically Cleveland. What the Sox do have going for them is that they have the most transportation-friendly facility in Chicago. The combined transit and car access is hard to top anywhere. But that's only handy when things are going well.

 

I think the early 90s were the last point the current Cub/Sox dynamic could have changed. The happy blue skies WGN good times Cub image wasn't fully entrenched, and the Sox had a good young core with cool new uniforms and were winning games consistently which was novel for Chicago baseball. But Cleveland emerged about the same time, the strike happened, bad choices were made, and things didn't work out.

 

 

Excellent sauce. You could tell once the gentrification train got rolling in the 1990s, it was only a matter of time before the chads started seeping in like that San Francisco morning fog.

 

The last sentence you typed rings very true. The Cubs really haven't been the dominant gang in town for that long and due to a series of unfortunate events, they've taken the reigns and I don't see them relinquishing them anytime soon. 

 

On an aside, I got back to discussing this topic with a friend of mine on FB and I told him how Douglas, the area just to the east of Bridgeport, is in a ripe place to gentrify and become a Logan Square-ish place that could help attract those young, working professional baseball fans the Sox seem to miss out. And wouldn't you know it, Chicago magazine agrees ( https://goo.gl/1nRRg2).

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1 hour ago, Alex Houston said:

 

Excellent sauce. You could tell once the gentrification train got rolling in the 1990s, it was only a matter of time before the chads started seeping in like that San Francisco morning fog.

 

The last sentence you typed rings very true. The Cubs really haven't been the dominant gang in town for that long and due to a series of unfortunate events, they've taken the reigns and I don't see them relinquishing them anytime soon. 

 

On an aside, I got back to discussing this topic with a friend of mine on FB and I told him how Douglas, the area just to the east of Bridgeport, is in a ripe place to gentrify and become a Logan Square-ish place that could help attract those young, working professional baseball fans the Sox seem to miss out. And wouldn't you know it, Chicago magazine agrees ( https://goo.gl/1nRRg2).

 

 

Douglas Park is great for the small area it encompasses. The issue is when you move one block south and you're in the middle of one of the most violent neighborhoods in Chicago. Seriously, go to Google, search "shooting Bronzeville" and various dates come up of shootings that have happened in just the last four months.  Wrigley isn't just an island of safety in a warzone but it borders Old Town, Lincoln Park, and the Gold Coast.

I don't think there will ever come a day when Bridgeport is even a fraction of what Wrigleyville is. I've been going to White Sox games since I can remember and I always hear, "They're really trying to fix the neighborhood up." Yeah, I'm going to call BS on that, the only thing they've really added is a huge bar next to the stadium where you can buy $8 beers.  

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