North American Pro Soccer 2017

[Gothamite]

Looks good.  And I like that they're paying for it themselves. 

[Gothamite]

13 hours ago, bosrs1 said:

 

So is it really just a stacked addition and new roof on the new stand they built when they entered MLS?

 

"Just"?

 

it's 4,000 new seats and $50M. 

[Digby]

One thing I loved about visiting the Timbers stadium was the open plaza effect on that side of the stadium, with the trolleys scooting by and lots of trees ... it was very Portland and I'm sad to see that go. That said, the new addition is pretty badass, obviously needed and that it's privately funded is really great. 

 

Painful to see that go up the same week as the latest version of "Kraft ends talks for soccer stadium site" in Boston, though.

[Jer15]

41 minutes ago, Digby said:

Painful to see that go up the same week as the latest version of "Kraft ends talks for soccer stadium site" in Boston, though.

 

I didn't catch that one. Sucks to hear.

I wonder if all of these failed attempts will ever lead to a desire to sell. Obviously not due to the need for money but rather just because they are tired of failing to get the stadium done. 

[Gothamite]

The Revolution story is here:

 

Kraft’s bid for an urban soccer stadium hits another dead end

 

Quote

University of Massachusetts officials have broken off talks with the Kraft Group to build a soccer stadium near the UMass Boston campus amid concerns from some local elected officials about its potential impact on the area.

 

For years, the Krafts have been searching for an urban location in the Boston area that could accommodate the New England Revolution, a team that currently shares Gillette Stadium with the New England Patriots. In the past year, the search involved talks with UMass officials about the former Bayside Expo Center property on Columbia Point that the university owns.

 

But a spokesman on Thursday night said those talks have ended.

 

“I think it’s well documented that there had been conversations over time about the potential for a stadium-anchored development at the site,” UMass spokesman Jeff Cournoyer said Thursday night. “It doesn’t appear feasible at this point.”

 

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I don't know how you could answer this, but surely there must be someone in the Boston area who would like to own a professional soccer franchise, right? Kraft's money helped stabilize the league for a long time, but does that family need to be involved any longer?

 

My bet is, assuming a willing buyer, the Krafts could easily make back their initial investment and then some. An MLS franchise in Boston would be worth $100 million, or more, right?

[dfwabel]

Who is a bigger shooter in Boston than Robert Kraft? If he cannot get one done, what are the chances somebody else can be more influential?

[DG_ThenNowForever]

1 minute ago, dfwabel said:

Who is a bigger shooter in Boston than Robert Kraft? If he cannot get one done, what are the chances somebody else can be more influential?

 

 

[Digby]

 

15 minutes ago, dfwabel said:

Who is a bigger shooter in Boston than Robert Kraft? If he cannot get one done, what are the chances somebody else can be more influential?

 

Yes and no -- Bob Kraft's attempts to build a Patriots stadium in Boston proper failed spectacularly in the 90s, which is why they built Gillette Stadium next to the old stadium out in the exurbs. Maybe that would have went better now -- this was Before Brady, and therefore before the Patriots were elevated to LL Bean status as a venerated New England institution. To this day, he is not well-liked among certain important politicians and townies in the city, even if they're Patriots diehards. Combine that with his Trump friendship in a fiercely Democratic city and I don't think he has the power you might suspect.

 

That said I doubt the Krafts sell any time soon. Jonathan (Bob's son) is the public face for the Revs and seems invested, if clueless about how to build a successful MLS team. Gillette Stadium is a horrible place for MLS but since it's owned by the team (or the team's big brother), it's not losing the Krafts any money. Set your ceiling to "minor-league" and the Revs are a perfectly functional and successful franchise. 

 

Besides, while I think the Krafts have done a poor job getting the stadium thing done, it's not like it would be easy to find someone who'd get it done instantly. Nothing gets built in Boston unless it's extremely-high-end condos. And as sports-crazy a city this is, there is zero appetite to make stadium-building easy here (Patriots stadium plan abandoned, New Fenway plan(s) abandoned, new Garden took decades to get done). And that's for the big four teams -- the Revolution still have almost zero visibility inside Route 128. There is certainly a group of excellent, passionate Revs fans even in/around Boston, but their numbers aren't great, and at a cultural level no one really cares about soccer here. Could be the stadium problem, could be too many other sports going on, could be that we don't trust teams without a history.

 

Point being, I don't see any easy way out of the malaise for the Revs.

 

Sorry to distract from your legitimately cool stadium news, Timbers fans.

[Gothamite]

Even if Kraft is the person most likely to get this done, it doesn't mean that he's been doing everything he can to that end.

[Digby]

2 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

Even if Kraft is the person most likely to get this done, it doesn't mean that he's been doing everything he can to that end.

 

It is hard to say for sure, but my guess is that's true. The pattern of disinvestment has been apparent, from the roster to the brand to the fact that they still advertise a 1-877 number and a dot-net URL for ticket buying on their sideline ads. It's incredible that they've made nearly a quarter of MLS Cup finals; OTOH, they lost them all and 2014 feels like a lifetime ago in MLS years.

[Brian in Boston]

Digby hit it on the head. There's simply no appetite in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts for public money being spent to subsidize the construction of facilities in which major professional sports teams can play their games. At least not without said money being paid back by the sports franchise owners who will be the primary beneficiaries of the construction of said facilities. 

Bob Kraft privately financed construction of Gillette Stadium on land for which he paid fair-market value. As for the publicly-funded, up-front infrastructure improvements that took place surrounding the Gillette Stadium construction site, the Krafts have been responsible for reimbursing the state for the cost of said work via annual payments since the stadium opened. The Yawkey Trust - former owners of the Red Sox - knew that they couldn't get public dollars for construction of their "New Fenway Park" project, so they limited their ask to a request for $130 million of state funding to upgrade transportation infrastructure in the neighborhood and to build a pair of parking garages near the planned facility. No dice, which is why John Henry knew he was going to have to settle for renovating Fenway Park on his own dime. Jeremy Jacobs borrowed over $100 million from banks, put up $40 million of Delaware North money, and added a surcharge to tickets that generated another $3.2 million for construction of a replacement for the original Boston Garden. The City of Boston backed $16 million in bonds which Jacobs has had to pay back over time. The notion that Major League Soccer's New England Revolution were going to score a better stadium financing deal than the Bruins, Celtics, Patriots or Red Sox were able to wrangle is ludicrous. 

As for the Krafts' press release regarding this latest soccer-specific stadium development plan, I have the following questions:

* Is the Krafts' definition of what constitutes a "full-value land lease" the same as UMass Boston's definition? Might the Krafts' assessment of the value of the land at the former Bayside Expo Center site be different from that which university leaders and state officials hold? That could be the reason for the soccer-specific "stadium-anchored development" plan no longer seeming "feasible" to the university.

* Have all of the Krafts' efforts to date to develop a stadium for the Revolution within the Greater Boston urban core included their taking on responsibility for a "fully-funded, privately-financed stadium"? If so, why is this the first time I can remember them so publicly committing to such financing of the facility? And if a "fully-funded, privately-financed stadium" on property which the Krafts are willing to pay a "full-value land lease" for is in the cards at the former Bayside Expo Center site, would such a deal work at any of the other sites in Greater Boston that the Krafts have previously considered?        

[Digby]

I seem to recall this being the first committment to private funding -- previous statements felt like a "it's too early to tell" thing. In this case the state needs to spend the money to fix that nightmare rotary and the very gross JFK/UMass T station anyway. But it's hard to imagine any other development on the Bayside site that wouldn't involve traffic, whether it's a stadium or a condo complex. That's why I suspect it will remain an abandoned eyesore for years. Too bad.

 

As for other sites: original Somerville site is out due to the T expansion I believe. Assembly Row site is now an office building. Sounds like Suffolk Downs is still trying to exist in some form for gambling. Wonderland seems like a decent possibility. Not sure whatever happened to that Southie/South End border site next to 93, it's still an eyesore maintenance garage last I checked. Beyond that, I'm not sure what rocks are left to turn over before we start making major accessibility concessions.

 

I know they intended this statement to be a "look, we're trying" thing but it really does raise a lot more questions about 10 years of stadium searches. (20 if you count the old Patriots effort too!)

[Digby]

And just to respond to a point @bosrs1 made in the unrealized stadium thread (without my ranting further derailing that topic): totally agree that the Revs remain MLS 1.0, but I don't think the team can excuse it all away by saying they've been too preoccupied with the stadium search. Why have they historically been terrible at outreach in Boston, and why do they still not run a bus or two on gamedays? Why has the most drastic brand refresh in 20 years been changing to a red away kit? And frankly, why does the youth academy remain underdeveloped in an area that's chock full of Brazilians, Italians and suburban money?

[bosrs1]

4 minutes ago, Digby said:

And just to respond to a point @bosrs1 made in the unrealized stadium thread (without my ranting further derailing that topic): totally agree that the Revs remain MLS 1.0, but I don't think the team can excuse it all away by saying they've been too preoccupied with the stadium search. Why have they historically been terrible at outreach in Boston, and why do they still not run a bus or two on gamedays? Why has the most drastic brand refresh in 20 years been changing to a red away kit? And frankly, why does the youth academy remain underdeveloped in an area that's chock full of Brazilians, Italians and suburban money?

 

Best guess... it's because their owners still have that MLS 1.0 mentality. For the Krafts, whose primary focus has been the Patriots, the Revs seem to be largely an afterthought. A training ground for Kraft the younger the get experience running a sports team for his inevitable takeover of the Patriots when Bob kicks the bucket (which frankly worries me given how he runs the Revs). They don't see the Revs as an team on par with the Pats in their portfolio and frankly it shows.

 

Most of the rest of the league's owners treat their MLS teams as the or one of the most important things in their portfolio of holdings (sporting or otherwise). Even a sporting conglomerate like AEG sees the Galaxy and their stadium as one of their more important holdings and treats it as such or the Wolff/Fisher regime who while mismanaging the Earthquakes (and the A's), at least treat both relatively equally.

[Sykotyk]

Have the Krafts ever given ANY thought to locating the team further southwest in Rhode Island? Maybe downtown Providence? Sure, you lose the direct Boston market connection, but where they're located now isn't really Boston anyways. You don't think Rhode Island would jump at the chance of having a 'major league team' to call their own? A team that would still basically cover all of New England and their location isn't going to matter as much. Providence is generally easily accessible from western MA, eastern MA, the Cape, Hartford, and the I-95 corridor as well. AND from Boston it is not that much further southwest to Providence than it is to get to Foxboro.

 

Hell, the Krafts tried locating the Patriots stadium in Hartford, CT for a time before giving in and just building it beside their old venue.

[Gothamite]

14 hours ago, Digby said:

Why has the most drastic brand refresh in 20 years been changing to a red away kit? 

 

As a general rule, I'm extremely hesitant to use "you haven't changed your logo" as a synonym for "you don't care about the club you own".  

 

But I'll give you a pass on this particular logo.

[Gothamite]

11 hours ago, Sykotyk said:

Have the Krafts ever given ANY thought to locating the team further southwest in Rhode Island? Maybe downtown Providence? Sure, you lose the direct Boston market connection, but where they're located now isn't really Boston anyways. You don't think Rhode Island would jump at the chance of having a 'major league team' to call their own? A team that would still basically cover all of New England and their location isn't going to matter as much. 

 

Yeah, it kinda does.  

 

MLS has has had remarkable success in recent years building stadiums in the urban core.   The problem the Revs have right now is access to the stadium from the city.  The last thing they need to do is move farther away from Faneuil Hall. 

[Digby]

@Sykotyk I say this as someone who grew up there and loves Providence dearly that it would never, ever happen. As far as I know Providence would be the smallest home market in the big sports minus maybe Green Bay. There's a reason it's been Boston or bust, because there's no sense in leaving Foxboro unless it's for the growth and legitimacy that would come with being a proper Boston team. Providence is fantastic and has a great soccer history, but it's a minor league town.

 

the infamous Hartford move, I think, ultimately ended up just being a leverage move against the Mass statehouse. I think the Pats would've screwed themselves real good if that actually came to pass.

[Gothamite]

I had family in Connecticut at the time, and remember the sense that the whole thing was an elaborate farce, and that only the governor wasn't in on the joke.