Gothamite

North American Pro Soccer 2017

Recommended Posts

15 minutes ago, mr.negative15 said:

This was just a big shock to hear. What I keep wondering is what would it take to upgrade Mapre? It can't be more than building a new building of the same approximate size in another city. 

 

according to anthony precourt it's all about location. he wants to be downtown, not a couple miles away from it, or so he says. seems more like he's making demands that won't be met so he can leave and still be able to say he tried/have someone to blame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, mr.negative15 said:

Theoretically, it could be changed again to add more suits? I mean, if the stage thing isn't bringing in revenue wouldn't that be a solution?

 

I've been there once. Probably 8 years ago now. Yes, it was pretty bare bones but it also looked like it wouldn't be that hard to make changes.

If you take out the stage and the seats on either side of the stage on that end maybe you could have 3 or 4 suits across? Maybe make a couple levels. 

 

Maybe it's just that I've seen BMO go through like 5 changes or maybe I'm over-simplifying it (heck, I'm no civil engineer)...It just seems like there has to be a better solution.

I've never been, mainly because I haven't lived in Ohio since 1998. Looking at how Portland renovated Providence Park when moving over to MLS in 2010, I think if the Crew built on to the backside of one set of stands and changed the seats out it could accomplish some of what you proposed. I know Toyota Field (San Antonio) has this very plan in place should they expand the stadium in Phase 2. It would also require getting rid of the parking that's currently right next to the fence line at the stadium. Mapfre could add on to the one goal end without the scoreboard and one of the side and do something similar. But the problem as I undetsand it is that it is still out of the way for a good sized portion of fans. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@MJWalker45 @tutorhunky

 

I don't recall it being in the middle of no where but I also can't claim to know that much about Columbus. I've only been once (for that game) and I know nothing about the transit. 

If it is too far away and that is keeping fans away then I guess that needs to be addressed. 
 

I guess I could ask questions all day but it doesn't really matter the current owner seems hell bent on moving the team so that is probably what will happen. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

I've never been, mainly because I haven't lived in Ohio since 1998. Looking at how Portland renovated Providence Park when moving over to MLS in 2010, I think if the Crew built on to the backside of one set of stands and changed the seats out it could accomplish some of what you proposed. I know Toyota Field (San Antonio) has this very plan in place should they expand the stadium in Phase 2. It would also require getting rid of the parking that's currently right next to the fence line at the stadium. Mapfre could add on to the one goal end without the scoreboard and one of the side and do something similar. But the problem as I undetsand it is that it is still out of the way for a good sized portion of fans. 

That's essentially all state property as the stadium abuts the state fairgrounds.

 

Even if there was a downtown site, most fans would still drive to/from the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

mapfre is about 4 miles from downtown, and right across from OSU's campus. the location is fine. it's all about new ownership taking over and wanting to move from the get go. he knew what he was doing when he signed that atrocious TV deal limiting who has access to games. so much could have been done to improve attendance and there are still plenty of ways to fix the problem without building a new stadium or moving the team. instead ownership decided to screw fans over, then use said fans as scapegoats.

 

this entire situation is disgusting

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

I've never been, mainly because I haven't lived in Ohio since 1998. Looking at how Portland renovated Providence Park when moving over to MLS in 2010, I think if the Crew built on to the backside of one set of stands and changed the seats out it could accomplish some of what you proposed. I know Toyota Field (San Antonio) has this very plan in place should they expand the stadium in Phase 2. It would also require getting rid of the parking that's currently right next to the fence line at the stadium. Mapfre could add on to the one goal end without the scoreboard and one of the side and do something similar. But the problem as I undetsand it is that it is still out of the way for a good sized portion of fans. 

 

The problem is it's in this tweener part of town that is not downtown and not campus, and also not near any kind of walkable places to eat/drink and party before/after the game so it's not driving a lot of people in just on the fun experience surrounding the game in addition to the game itself. I lived in Seattle and went to a handful of Sounders games and half the fun was getting together with people before or after the game to have a drink and a bite and then walking into the stadium. Mapfre is central Columbus (and more and more I think half the problem teams with bad attendance have is just bad suburb locations, but it's not in the fun part of central Columbus. I also hear parking and getting in/out is a nightmare. 

 

1 minute ago, dfwabel said:

That's essentially all state property as the stadium abuts the state fairgrounds.

 

Even if there was a downtown site, most fans would still drive to/from the game.

 

yeah, but downtown has more stuff to do. All things equal it would be better to have the soccer stadium downtown near the arena and ballpark than where it is. 

 

1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

 

Nope. No stadium plan, no ownership group.  Both of which he’ll have to come up with. 

 

What burns my ass is the league is allowing this if not openly encouraging it. It's endorsing and setting precedent for a really shady practice. Again, I'm no Columbus Crew fan, but they were done dirty and it makes me reconsider my desire for an FC Cincinnati expansion bid. I'm kind of ready to tell the league to buzz off. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm starting to get a faint whiff of Arena Football 1.0 coming off of MLS' business model.

 

Remember a few years ago, when the league decided to fold (I'm sorry, "suspend") Chivas USA , and then turned right around and awarded an expansion franchise to Los Angeles FC? That's because they knew an outright sale of an MLS club was worth significantly less then their juiced-up expansion fee. (See also: Arena Football, Indiana Firebirds.) Now Precourt comes in, buys the Crew for an "inflated" $68 million, and just up and moves the team with the longest history in the league, while other bidders are expected to pony up $200M for a franchise with a commitment to a designated market. Why would you burn your money on that? Either wait for a sale and pay probably half of the expansion fee, or if the league insists on inflating the price, put your money in a more viable sports investment now that the numbers on this one are being laid bare.

 

If the Crew go to Austin, I think there's a good chance we end up looking back on it as the first domino.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Sodboy13 said:

I'm starting to get a faint whiff of Arena Football 1.0 coming off of MLS' business model.

 

Remember a few years ago, when the league decided to fold (I'm sorry, "suspend") Chivas USA , and then turned right around and awarded an expansion franchise to Los Angeles FC? That's because they knew an outright sale of an MLS club was worth significantly less then their juiced-up expansion fee. (See also: Arena Football, Indiana Firebirds.) Now Precourt comes in, buys the Crew for an "inflated" $68 million, and just up and moves the team with the longest history in the league, while other bidders are expected to pony up $200M for a franchise with a commitment to a designated market. Why would you burn your money on that? Either wait for a sale and pay probably half of the expansion fee, or if the league insists on inflating the price, put your money in a more viable sports investment now that the numbers on this one are being laid bare.

 

If the Crew go to Austin, I think there's a good chance we end up looking back on it as the first domino.

Another possibility:

What if this is the league trying to get more teams to the south in preparation for a change in league schedule? If that happened, you'd need to get the teams from New York, Seattle, Portland and Boston somewhere to go when they can't play at home. Columbus being the lowest in terms of attendance of the northern teams allows MLS to sacrifice a lamb in an attempt to get to parity with Liga MX. Granted, I feel that the salary cap will still limit the benefits of a schedule change were they to make one. Knowing that Precourt has an out clause to go to a Texas city that doesn't traditionally deal with severe cold or rain in November/December, they allow the move. Heck, they've already picked out two names! :mad:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, if they decide to adopt a fall-to-spring schedule, then they're a different kind of doomed that has nothing to do with franchise valuation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Sodboy13 said:

I'm starting to get a faint whiff of Arena Football 1.0 coming off of MLS' business model.

 

Remember a few years ago, when the league decided to fold (I'm sorry, "suspend") Chivas USA , and then turned right around and awarded an expansion franchise to Los Angeles FC? That's because they knew an outright sale of an MLS club was worth significantly less then their juiced-up expansion fee. (See also: Arena Football, Indiana Firebirds.) Now Precourt comes in, buys the Crew for an "inflated" $68 million, and just up and moves the team with the longest history in the league, while other bidders are expected to pony up $200M for a franchise with a commitment to a designated market. Why would you burn your money on that? Either wait for a sale and pay probably half of the expansion fee, or if the league insists on inflating the price, put your money in a more viable sports investment now that the numbers on this one are being laid bare.

 

If the Crew go to Austin, I think there's a good chance we end up looking back on it as the first domino.

 

It does feel awfully bubbly. 

 

I'm sure the Lindner kid is thrilled that in order to join the club he has to give the league 200 million and figure out a way to build a SSS in Cincinnati now knowing he could've just bought the Crew four years ago for 70 and moved them in the middle of the night.  

 

What happens, though, if he moves the team to Austin and then can't secure funding for the stadium Austin doesn't have? This is the scenario I'm rooting for. I demand full chaos. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

Another possibility:

What if this is the league trying to get more teams to the south in preparation for a change in league schedule? If that happened, you'd need to get the teams from New York, Seattle, Portland and Boston somewhere to go when they can't play at home. Columbus being the lowest in terms of attendance of the northern teams allows MLS to sacrifice a lamb in an attempt to get to parity with Liga MX. Granted, I feel that the salary cap will still limit the benefits of a schedule change were they to make one. Knowing that Precourt has an out clause to go to a Texas city that doesn't traditionally deal with severe cold or rain in November/December, they allow the move. Heck, they've already picked out two names! :mad:

 

 

They aren't going to move a bunch of teams south. 1/3rd of the league is more northerly than Columbus. Changing the schedule is unlikely to happen either. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People keep bringing up pro/rel too and that isn't happening either.  The league only just added a team in Minnesota. I think fears of a southern flight are well, completely unfounded. They aren't suddenly going to abandon some of their most successful markets. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Corvus said:

People keep bringing up pro/rel too and that isn't happening either.  The league only just added a team in Minnesota. I think fears of a southern flight are well, completely unfounded. They aren't suddenly going to abandon some of their most successful markets. 

After all, this isn't the NHL!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So LAFC begins next season, and Austin would move to the Western Conference in 2019, I'd assume.  Does this mean the next round of expansion goes East for two teams?  I think Houston (or Chicago) would keep switching back and forth between East and West over the years when a new team came on, but Chicago's already East and highly doubt they'd put Houston back in the East with Austin staying West.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, HedleyLamarr said:

So LAFC begins next season, and Austin would move to the Western Conference in 2019, I'd assume.  Does this mean the next round of expansion goes East for two teams?  I think Houston (or Chicago) would keep switching back and forth between East and West over the years when a new team came on, but Chicago's already East and highly doubt they'd put Houston back in the East with Austin staying West.

 

No.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MLS contracting Chivas and then awarding LAFC is a byproduct of the league being a single-entity. Chivas was run horribly and the league had assumed control of them when their 'owner' ditched them. They were a poor attempt at gaining Mexican viewers at a time when anyone with a checkbook that could buy a team was welcome. Today, that's not the same case.

 

So, since Chivas was run by the league, there was no chance in hell they'd run the team just to meander through until LAFC's new stadium opened and rebrand. The pricetag was going to be the same regardless.

 

Columbus' situation is a lot like San Jose (the only other relocation). An owner basically fed up without long term plans for a 'real' stadium (one with all the bells and whistles and in the prime location that MLS 1.0 and even MLS 2.0 stadiums lack) The problem is Columbus is a 1.0 team and the fans know it. Only KC has managed to truly make a 'second first impression'. Which is essentially what Precourt wants in Columbus with a downtown stadium. Downtown, they're inescapable. Out by I-71, they're just a weird yellow billboard-esque blight you see in a neighbor most won't stop in otherwise.

 

It was built cheap and quick when Ohio Stadium couldn't host the team any longer. It was the start of MLS 2.0, but so many 2.0 stadiums were so much nicer and appointed compared to Crew Stadium. Look at HDC/SHC, DSGP, Toyota Stadium, PHP and Rio Tinto. I've been to 3 of those 5. Crew Stadium was clearly less than them. This is like Cleveland Browns Stadium being built cheap in 1999 to bring back the team. THEY DIDN'T HAVE ESCALATORS!!! and try comparing it to AT&T Stadium or Lucas Oil Stadium. Or even the newest members, Mercedez-Benz Stadium or US Bank Stadium.

 

It just doesn't cut it any more. It's great for what it is, but MLS basically is demanding much better than that. And it's clear from all the new venues going up. Orlando City, the new plans in Minnesota, Banc Stadium in LA, etc. They're nothing like Cre Stadium. Crew Stadium is a great high school football stadium. It is not a good MLS stadium when compared to other MLS stadiums.

 

Do I think Columbus should bend over for the team? No. But their circumstances are a matter of timing. Years ago, Hunt built them a stadium unlike anything MLS had seen to keep them in Columbus. Today, that stadium will be what drives them from the league.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's all true that at some point Columbus was going to have to address the stadium, but people felt like that was a 5-10 years from now problem and not this immediate issue and nobody worried that the new owner would be so heartless to just up and leave. This Precourt guy has made no earnest effort to actually try (try with anything: engage fans, scope out stadium plans, etc) and the fans and city weren't given a reasonable advance warning to know that their team is in jeopardy. Meanhwhile he's been plotting to move since day one while lying about it to fans and media. What a scumbag. Columbus mobilized for the Blue Jackets and I think could make a downtown SSS stadium happen if given a sane timeline and an owner not actively trying to leave. This guy just doesn't want to be in Columbus and he's sabotaging the market to justify his relocation. Summed up basically, the league is killing a charter member and allowing a guy to loophole around an expansion fee. That shouldn't sit right with anyone. 

 

Now the fans are faced with this unwinnable dilemma: 

1. Flood the team with support to prove your worth, which means continue to buy gear and tickets and sell out the games, vote for tax measures that'll give a free stadium to this prick, give millions of more money to this villain and he will probably leave anyway.

2. sit at home, boycott the piece of :censored:, and allow him to use their lack of support as a justification for leaving and I believe that's what he's been counting on. 

 

I'd go with option 2 because you're losing the team either way, but at least then you have your money and a shred of self respect. You can be a piece of crap sleaze bag in any business and few people will know your name, but these guys choose to do it in highly visible sports. It's like they want and try to be villains. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was thinking a little more about this on my drive into work today.

 

Besides for the fact that, with all the expansion teams coming in, there should be plenty of money for him to upgrade the stadium or build a new one what about these factors;

 

I'm not sure how long the stadium sponsorship with Mapfre goes for but there must be a fee to break that, right?

I do know that the Crew agreed to rent the land from the city until 2020 (or maybe it was 2022? I forget the year) Regardless, breaking that lease will cost money too.

 

While I won't pretend to know what the costs would be how on earth does moving the team make any sense economically? 

 

Plus, isn't Austin (and I don't pretend to know anything about Austin) a very similar city in the fact that it's a university town that has a huge football following? Aren't they similar in population size too? Last I checked the minor league soccer teams didn't have much success in Austin either. This all sounds like I'm dumping on Austin and I don't mean to, I'm sure it's a nice city but I just am failing to see any advantage. 

 

/end rant

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.