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Pro sports leagues win lawsuit to seize websites selling fake jerseys

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5 hours ago, Cosmic said:

... like an airplane crashing isn't the fault of the airline, but rather the fault of the Earth for being so massive.

 

Dismiss it however you want, but unless you can get the entire world under one set of labor laws, you're basically taking away companies' rights to make their goods where they want and how they want.

 

Every company in the U.S. has to deal with labor laws. But, you seem to think that these jerseys and apparel are being made IN the U.S. They're not. They're being made in the same third world environment that is producing the knockoffs. Which prove that pricing is out of whack.

 

The argument for cheaper products from China, India, Taiwan, Pakistan, Thailand, etc, is that it will reduce the price of the product to the end consumer. What we see many times is that it is simply a mechanism for the 'rich to get richer' by creating a larger margin between production price and sale price.

 

And there's push back. You think the current political environment has little to do with the fact people are ticked that their jobs are leaving the country, and yet the actual net benefit for the loss of work isn't actually reaching them. People don't mind automation in production reducing jobs, or even outsourcing reducing domestic jobs, as long as we BENEFIT from it. When the price of an item or service remains the same despite those costs, we've been fleeced.

 

That's the argument about $100 jerseys. You can argue supply and demand, but most people don't care that the reason something costs $100 is because the seller, who is awarded protection by the government to enact and maintain a monopoly (via IP laws creating exclusivity), says it costs $100.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sykotyk said:

That's the argument about $100 jerseys. You can argue supply and demand, but most people don't care that the reason something costs $100 is because the seller, who is awarded protection by the government to enact and maintain a monopoly (via IP laws creating exclusivity), says it costs $100.

 

It is all about supply and demand. If people weren't paying the $100, then jerseys wouldn't cost $100. 

 

And as for your last point, are you seriously arguing against intellectual property?

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:censored: people who steal intellectual property in any avenue.

 

Though thing I find funny: People who’ll shell out $40 for a fake soccer jersey on Alibaba when shirts go on sale for $40 at the end of the season for so many clubs.

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45 minutes ago, crashcarson15 said:

:censored: people who steal intellectual property in any avenue.

 

Though thing I find funny: People who’ll shell out $40 for a fake soccer jersey on Alibaba when shirts go on sale for $40 at the end of the season for so many clubs.

End of the season is when I do most of my shopping.

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I see game-used Cincinnati Reds jerseys (of lesser known players, of course) on ebay for noticeably less than a new authentic.  I assume the same is true for all teams, although I haven't looked.  I know many don't want to wear jerseys of obscure players, though.

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4 hours ago, Sykotyk said:

 

Every company in the U.S. has to deal with labor laws. But, you seem to think that these jerseys and apparel are being made IN the U.S. They're not. They're being made in the same third world environment that is producing the knockoffs. Which prove that pricing is out of whack.

 

That's the argument about $100 jerseys. You can argue supply and demand, but most people don't care that the reason something costs $100 is because the seller, who is awarded protection by the government to enact and maintain a monopoly (via IP laws creating exclusivity), says it costs $100.

I used New Era as an example because I know that they DO have a plant in the US.

 

If it's an EpiPen, there's a morality to pricing.  If it's a sports jersey, it's just not that important.

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On 12/31/2016 at 11:40 AM, Gothamite said:

 

I own my apartment.  Should you feel bad for me if somebody broke in and stole my property?  Would it matter if that burglar was poorer than I?

That is the dumbest :censored:ing analogy I have ever heard and I have heard some dumb ones. Jesus christ, lol

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Theft is when someone TAKES what you have and you no longer have it.

 

Using someone's IP rights IS NOT theft. Music or movies are copied. The original is still there, in perfect condition. Nobody broke into the movie studio to steal the master copy. Nobody stole a jersey from a store to then sell it for $40 on Alibaba.

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18 minutes ago, Sykotyk said:

Theft is when someone TAKES what you have and you no longer have it.

 

Using someone's IP rights IS NOT theft. Music or movies are copied. The original is still there, in perfect condition. Nobody broke into the movie studio to steal the master copy. Nobody stole a jersey from a store to then sell it for $40 on Alibaba.

they are stealing money from the owner

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17 minutes ago, dont care said:

they are stealing money from the owner

This isn't really true from an economic standpoint since someone who is willing to buy a jersey at $30 may not be willing to buy one at $100. Also the leagues and teams are responsible in a way for the creation of the current jersey black market since the current price points have made it profitable for the black market to exist. Obviously its an unintentional consequence of pricing their products at what I assume is where they maximize profits. The question I would be asking if I was in the industry would be how could I meet the sizable portion of the market that isn't being met.

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IP theft is absolutely theft.  If you illegally download a movie instead of buying or renting it, how is that not stealing it?  It's no different from sneaking into a movie theater without paying, and we don't see the rush to excuse or rationalize that. 

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1 hour ago, Sykotyk said:

Theft is when someone TAKES what you have and you no longer have it.

 

Using someone's IP rights IS NOT theft. Music or movies are copied. The original is still there, in perfect condition. Nobody broke into the movie studio to steal the master copy. Nobody stole a jersey from a store to then sell it for $40 on Alibaba.

 

You are wrong.  100% wrong.

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18 minutes ago, Stu-BallsOmnicorp said:

This isn't really true from an economic standpoint since someone who is willing to buy a jersey at $30 may not be willing to buy one at $100. Also the leagues and teams are responsible in a way for the creation of the current jersey black market since the current price points have made it profitable for the black market to exist. Obviously its an unintentional consequence of pricing their products at what I assume is where they maximize profits. The question I would be asking if I was in the industry would be how could I meet the sizable portion of the market that isn't being met.

 

It's completely true.  That $30 feeds the bootleg industry and enables them to produce more (and possibly better) products that people who would pay $100 might decide to turn to instead.  Sales go down, revenues go down, prices for authentics might actually go up (because there's a fixed market of people who will only buy the real deal no matter what the cost), the license fee becomes less valuable so the teams dont' get as much from Nike (or whoever), and therefore don't budget as much to pay the designers who's work is being stolen.

 

Counterfeiting hurts everyone.  Buying fakes promotes illegal practices (and possibly funds terrorism, depending on what you believe) and ultimately leads to designers being paid less for their work.

 

At the end of the day, the person not willing to buy one at $100 simply shouldn't have one.  It's really that simple.

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23 minutes ago, Stu-BallsOmnicorp said:

This isn't really true from an economic standpoint since someone who is willing to buy a jersey at $30 may not be willing to buy one at $100. Also the leagues and teams are responsible in a way for the creation of the current jersey black market since the current price points have made it profitable for the black market to exist. Obviously its an unintentional consequence of pricing their products at what I assume is where they maximize profits. The question I would be asking if I was in the industry would be how could I meet the sizable portion of the market that isn't being met.

 

The person selling the counterfeit is engaging in theft because they are #1 Selling a product in which they are not licensed to sell and #2 likely engaging in fraud when they are knowingly passing off a fake as the real thing.   Look at Facebook adds for fakes, they use real jerseys in the pics. I wanted a Mitch Marner Leafs jersey for Christmas but told my mom to not get me one because I didn't want her spending that much on me. My 67 year old mom is a face book user and if she saw one of those adds she may have bought me one at $29.99 thinking she found a deal and unknowingly bought a crappy fake. 

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33 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 (and possibly funds terrorism, depending on what you believe)

It definitely funds organized crime, at the minimum. Counterfeit goods are a huge money maker for the Triads.

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I would never buy a fake NBA or NFL jersey, because you can buy the retails for $100 and they are of reasonable quality.

 

$180 for an NHL jersey is very difficult to justify, and IMO is poorly priced. It definitely doesn't cost $180 to make an NHL jersey, and selling them at that price makes life very easy for people selling fake jerseys.

 

I feel like they could reduce the price down to around the $100-120 mark and they'd probably sell double the jerseys and completely destroy the market for $50 fake hockey jerseys.

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9 hours ago, Gothamite said:

IP theft is absolutely theft.  If you illegally download a movie instead of buying or renting it, how is that not stealing it?  It's no different from sneaking into a movie theater without paying, and we don't see the rush to excuse or rationalize that. 

Sneaking into a theater is trespassing, not theft.

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9 hours ago, dont care said:

they are stealing money from the owner

So, the owner had money that he no longer has because of 'theft'?

 

Unrealized income is not theft.

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While I recognize that IP theft is theft, it's definitely a different kind of theft.. If someone steals all my stuff, I'm left broke with nothing.. If someone steals my intellectual property, it affects me much more indirectly and much more slowly, especially when the chain goes from customer to retail establishment to wholesale supplier to manufacturer to CFO to designer (just an rough example).. So, I tend to agree that there exists a marker of those unwilling to pay retail for quality, so they pay bargain for counterfeit.. I don't necessarily agree with the actions, but I agree that the IP owners make it far too tempting to look elsewhere.. That's an issue they could address and help themselves out, regardless of whether counterfeiting is right or wrong (although it's absolutely wrong)

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42 minutes ago, Sykotyk said:

Sneaking into a theater is trespassing, not theft.

Thus proving no one shoud take legal advice from this guy...sneaking into a theater is at minimum theft of services.

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