New high school logo

[dont care]

Damn dude, just admit that males do have privilege over female counterparts. Sure a lot of that deals with males going after stem fields which do pay better and have more promotion but females do suffer from a wage gap compared to males. For much of history females didn't have the same opportunities as males had and because of that they are either playing catch up in those fields or trying to change the perception of them in said fields. Rather than dismissing everything everyone is say by saying just you don't believe it look at the facts of the situation and you will see how wrong you are.

[panthers_2012]

2 hours ago, dont care said:

Damn dude, just admit that males do have privilege over female counterparts. Sure a lot of that deals with males going after stem fields which do pay better and have more promotion but females do suffer from a wage gap compared to males. For much of history females didn't have the same opportunities as males had and because of that they are either playing catch up in those fields or trying to change the perception of them in said fields. Rather than dismissing everything everyone is say by saying just you don't believe it look at the facts of the situation and you will see how wrong you are.

THANK YOU!!! 

[O.C.D]

6 hours ago, dont care said:

Damn dude, just admit that males do have privilege over female counterparts. Sure a lot of that deals with males going after stem fields which do pay better and have more promotion but females do suffer from a wage gap compared to males. For much of history females didn't have the same opportunities as males had and because of that they are either playing catch up in those fields or trying to change the perception of them in said fields. Rather than dismissing everything everyone is say by saying just you don't believe it look at the facts of the situation and you will see how wrong you are.

No. The wage gap is a myth, it's continually cited as evidence of female oppression and it's not true. I will agree that historically woman were denied rights and opportunities, that is not the case anymore. Women have equal protection and equal opportunity under penalty of law, and are encouraged to be whatever they want. I could even make the argument that women are offered extraordinary incentive to inhabit various educational, political and professional fields. If you believe "playing catch up" means a near 50% female representation in most professional, educational or political areas, playing catch up is essentially never ending and discounts the fact that men and women choose different life paths consistently, and biology might be a determining factor. The fact remains, that women have the right to pursue any lifestyle they want, that may mean the percentages of male and female representation in various fields may always be skewed one way or another.

 

I'm aware of the facts, and I disagree with an argument if I don't agree with it's premise or assertions, regardless of how popular or unpopular it is. 

[Gothamite]

You've got a right winger who says the wage gap doesn't exist, I can easily find others on the left who assure you that it does.  

 

No, The Gender Pay Gap Isn’t A Myth — And Here’s Why

 

Or we could go by the actual statistics, and you'll see that yes, the wage gap is a very real thing.

 

If conservative bloggers are your standard of "facts", than it would explain the relative strength of your argument. 

[dont care]

20 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

You've got a right winger who says the wage gap doesn't exist, I can easily find others on the left who assure you that it does.  

 

No, The Gender Pay Gap Isn’t A Myth — And Here’s Why

 

Or we could go by the actual statistics, and you'll see that yes, the wage gap is a very real thing.

 

If conservative bloggers are your standard of "facts", than it would explain the relative strength of your argument. 

Im conservative and i see the advantages i personally am the benefactor of. At my current job I'm next in line to be promoted into management, all while taking 2 periods of 6 months off from said job to go to training for the National guard, only working their 2 years, meanwhile accouple of females who have been there for years are nowhere near where i am. the fact of the matter is males get promoted quicker and get more raises (mainly because we actually ask for them being more naturally aggressive) but regardless i didn't ask for the promotion they just think I'm better because I'm more "flexible" in the jobs i can do compared to everyone else. even my girlfriend who has been working there for 8 years and has a masters degree isn't getting the opportunities i got when i just have a bachelors degree compared to her.

[panthers_2012]

1 hour ago, O.C.D said:

No. The wage gap is a myth, it's continually cited as evidence of female oppression and it's not true. I will agree that historically woman were denied rights and opportunities, that is not the case anymore. Women have equal protection and equal opportunity under penalty of law, and are encouraged to be whatever they want. I could even make the argument that women are offered extraordinary incentive to inhabit various educational, political and professional fields. If you believe "playing catch up" means a near 50% female representation in most professional, educational or political areas, playing catch up is essentially never ending and discounts the fact that men and women choose different life paths consistently, and biology might be a determining factor. The fact remains, that women have the right to pursue any lifestyle they want, that may mean the percentages of male and female representation in various fields may always be skewed one way or another.

 

I'm aware of the facts, and I disagree with an argument if I don't agree with it's premise or assertions, regardless of how popular or unpopular it is. 

But the reality is we don't get equal protection and opportunity. I believe @dont care made an excellent point with his employment. It happens everywhere and you can't say that it doesn't happen, because it does. 

[DTConcepts]

Guys, this is a forum for the aesthetics of sports. This one conservative guy who denies facts obviously isn't going to change his mind, so we need to stop it.

 

This is why we need an eternal politics thread.

[O.C.D]

 

1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

You've got a right winger who says the wage gap doesn't exist, I can easily find others on the left who assure you that it does.  

 

No, The Gender Pay Gap Isn’t A Myth — And Here’s Why

 

Or we could go by the actual statistics, and you'll see that yes, the wage gap is a very real thing.

 

If conservative bloggers are your standard of "facts", than it would explain the relative strength of your argument. 

If you're going to look at this through the lens of partisan politics, left wing politics is identity politics. Left wing politics has a vested interest in reducing people into groups based and birth and infering a conclusion based on percentages, conflating inequity of outcome as inequity of opportunity. The actual statistics say nothing about the different jobs men and women fill. Men and women typically don't have 100% overlap of the types of jobs they hold. It just breaks people into groups and aggregates averages. No woman is denied entry into any field. The life choices they make have everything to do with how much they make individuallyand collectively.

[dont care]

I'm done, this is worse than fox news.

[O.C.D]

 

1 hour ago, dont care said:

Im conservative and i see the advantages i personally am the benefactor of. At my current job I'm next in line to be promoted into management, all while taking 2 periods of 6 months off from said job to go to training for the National guard, only working their 2 years, meanwhile accouple of females who have been there for years are nowhere near where i am. the fact of the matter is males get promoted quicker and get more raises (mainly because we actually ask for them being more naturally aggressive) but regardless i didn't ask for the promotion they just think I'm better because I'm more "flexible" in the jobs i can do compared to everyone else. even my girlfriend who has been working there for 8 years and has a masters degree isn't getting the opportunities i got when i just have a bachelors degree compared to her.

If males get promoted quicker and grlet more raises because they ask for it, how is that based iherently on sex? Are they assuming you're more flexible because you're a man? Are they wrong for assuming youre more flexible than youre female coworkers? If your female coworkers feel they're being unfairly discriminated against, they have the protection of law to help them. Is the masters degree your girlfriend has has directly applicable to the career she has? If so, she should absolutely asert herself and demand to be compensated fairly.

[smzimbabwe]

My high school was the Mariners, the girls teams were the Lady Mariners. Yet, the logo was a grizzled old man at the wheel. Different name for the teams, same logo.

[O.C.D]

1 hour ago, panthers_2012 said:

But the reality is we don't get equal protection and opportunity. I believe @dont care made an excellent point with his employment. It happens everywhere and you can't say that it doesn't happen, because it does. 

You absolutely have equal protection, and there is no opportunity you can't pursue. Each employee is responsible for fighting every opportunity, and if you feel you deserve a raise or a promotion fight for it. If you feel you're being discriminated against, you have the protection of law to fight against it. It doesn't happen everywhere. Does discrimination happen? I'm sure it does l, but protection from the law exists to fight it.

[O.C.D]

1 hour ago, Zeus89725 said:

Guys, this is a forum for the aesthetics of sports. This one conservative guy who denies facts obviously isn't going to change his mind, so we need to stop it.

 

This is why we need an eternal politics thread.

I don't deny facts, im not ready to infer a conclusion of wide spread misogyny and discrimination based on statistics  that dont take every factor in consideration that could effect different racial and gender groups earnings. Separating people based on birth characteristics, looking at collective earnings without accounting for the different fields and positions held by those individuals, and the lack of exact position overlap those individuals have, is discouting that these people aren't being "paid less for the exact same job". That inference only happens if you're reducing everything to an average.

[panthers_2012]

1 hour ago, O.C.D said:

You absolutely have equal protection, and there is no opportunity you can't pursue. Each employee is responsible for fighting every opportunity, and if you feel you deserve a raise or a promotion fight for it. If you feel you're being discriminated against, you have the protection of law to fight against it. It doesn't happen everywhere. Does discrimination happen? I'm sure it does l, but protection from the law exists to fight it.

You are correct, but if you file for discrimination, is hard to be proven. The boss could easily say "oh well Steve has a better resume(or something along the lines of that)" and everyone knows that you're the better worker, but he gets the promotion because of being a man. It's very hard to prove discrimination, unless it's blatant, in the workplace because it is easy to dismiss it because of the point that I gave earlier. Everyone should be fighting for equal rights, but they're not. Your views are your views and I respect that, but please stop trying to force then on everyone. All we're doing is proving a point that there is still discrimination going on and you're completely blind to it. I'm done dealing with you. You can't see that we here have given VALID POINTS for discrimination and injustice and you're ignoring them. So please, let's end this argument right now because there's not going to be a real winner. 

[O.C.D]

1 hour ago, panthers_2012 said:

You are correct, but if you file for discrimination, is hard to be proven. The boss could easily say "oh well Steve has a better resume(or something along the lines of that)" and everyone knows that you're the better worker, but he gets the promotion because of being a man. It's very hard to prove discrimination, unless it's blatant, in the workplace because it is easy to dismiss it because of the point that I gave earlier. Everyone should be fighting for equal rights, but they're not. Your views are your views and I respect that, but please stop trying to force then on everyone. All we're doing is proving a point that there is still discrimination going on and you're completely blind to it. I'm done dealing with you. You can't see that we here have given VALID POINTS for discrimination and injustice and you're ignoring them. So please, let's end this argument right now because there's not going to be a real winner. 

If Steve has a demonstrably worse resume than you, you have a clear case of discrimination. You also have the option of proving your worth in the open market, and force your employer to meet your demands or move on. If people are telling you "you are better worker than Steve" and it can be backed up by figures, you have a case. If you're assuming everyone knows you're a better worker, and you can't back it up with figures, you might not be a better worker than Steve. 

 

I respect that your views are your views, but I haven't forced my views on anyone. If you are asserting that me expressing my views, a long side your differing views, is me forcing them on you, I have every right to make the same claim about the views you express. I'm trying to prove a counter point to your point. Does discrimination exist? Yes. There are laws in place to fight it if you can prove it, but you need proof that the reason you're being discriminated against is because you're a woman. I do not think all women are discriminated against. I do not believe women (in the western world) are an oppressed class of human being. You and I disagree on the validity and and scope of the points you've brought up, I'm not ignoring them at all. I never asked, demanded or forced you to deal with me. You entered a conversation of your own free will and engaged me, I responded to you respectfully and disagreed with your points. You have no obligation to speak to me further. 

[hockey week]

How about an option with choices? Have a second logo and name that's related (and isn't Lady Stallions...I've always hated the Lady names, because it needlessly separates what should be a uniting experience) and then allow the teams to choose if they want the specific name or the unified name? Let the students vote whenever they get new jerseys or whenever, and make it actually about the students.

[panthers_2012]

20 minutes ago, hockey week said:

How about an option with choices? Have a second logo and name that's related (and isn't Lady Stallions...I've always hated the Lady names, because it needlessly separates what should be a uniting experience) and then allow the teams to choose if they want the specific name or the unified name? Let the students vote whenever they get new jerseys or whenever, and make it actually about the students.

I like that idea. 

[-kj]

So, since we've wandered off into politics land, I think we're done here.