Bmac

NHL 2017-18

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Still not good by a longshot, though.

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1 hour ago, Still MIGHTY said:

I know we've driven this point into the ground, as we're wont to do at ye olde CCSLC, but damn these Adidas templates. Damn these collars and god damn these mesh shoulders. It already makes me angry that with the Ducks likely coming out with new jerseys next season, I don't know if I'll be able to buy it because I just can't get over the collars and mesh shoulders. They're points of no return on these.

 

Agreed. The mesh shoulders aren't as bad as the collars, but only because nothing can be as bad as the collars. All these reinventions of the hockey sweater since 2007 seem so stupid. If only we could have just kept the CCMs but made everyone wear them one size smaller!

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I’ve wanted a Toronto Arenas Leafs throwback since before I began posting here. 

They finally released one, and offered me a free toque! I turned it down because G-ddamn. That collar is bad. Adidas’ new collars are so bad I willingly skipped out a sweater (plus a free toque!) I’ve waited half my life for. 

 

On Adidas’ new templates in general. It’s been long enough that I feel like I can offer a more well-rounded argument as to why I REALLY don’t like any of it. 

 

To continue with what @Still MIGHTY,@Sodboy13, and @the admiral were getting at?

It seems like the quality of hockey sweaters available to the public has dropped considerably in the last fifteen years or so. 

The Starter, Nike, and CCM/Koho replicas all varied as far as quality went, but they all stand heads and shoulders above the Reebok Edge and Adidas/Fanatics offerings. Of course they didn’t have the authentic frills the authentics had but they were still quality products. 

And before anyone suggests this...this isn’t me looking back with rose-coloured glasses. I still have most of the CCM/Koho replicas I bought back in high school. Hanging up with newer Reebok Edge replicas. The difference in quality is readily apparent every time I take a sweater off a hanger. 

 

Anyway I digress. The Reebok Edge replicas were indeed a huge step down quality-wise from what came before. This, coupled with the horrid Edge designs, did not leave a good first impression. 

 

Still? Call me defeatist, but I came to accept that, and the fact that there was no turning back. The Reebok Edge replicas were it. This stung less as more and more teams ditched the arbitrary limitations of the initial Edge designs. 

The quality wasn’t as good as it once was, but it wasn’t awful. Coupled with better sweaters with each redesign? Things were fine. Maybe not great, but good enough once it became clear that the golden age of hockey replica sweaters was never returning. Things were finally fine, at the very least. 

 

Only to be set back with these new Adidas sweaters. 

The enraging part isn’t so much the introduction of bad ideas meant to showcase the manufacturer more than the team- one only needs to look at Nike’s NFL and NCAA offerings to see how bog-standard that practice is these days. 

No, the enraging part was that Adidas is Reebok and Reebok is Adidas. It’s the same company employing the same designers. All that really had to happen was to replace the Reebok tags with the Adidas one on the slowly but surely improving Edge system. 

 

Of course that couldn’t happen. So we got what could only be described as a set-back. On multiple fronts. 

Overall? The Reebok Edge designs were templated garbage meant to sell the new sweater cuts over the teams’ identities. That faded over time though, to the point that nearly all the poor initial Edge designs had been replaced with designs that were at least respectable, if not better than the designs that immediately pre-dated the Edge rollout. 

 

Now Adidas didn’t go full-template, but we did go backwards in this regard. The collars are all certainly eyesores, and they’re certainly templates. Much like the piping and panelling of the initial Edge rolllut? The new Adidas collars often suffer as teams randomly colour in various aspects of the template. And like the Reebok Edge? It’s going to take at least five years for teams to realise what looks good vs what doesn’t.

It’s an enraging prospect, considering were just coming out the other side of that process with the Reebok Edge system prior to all of this. The entire league already had to re-learn how to make a good-looking hockey sweater. And just when most of the league managed it? We have new bad templates to force them to do it all over again. 

 

That’s not all though, because we still have to circle back to quality. As I said, the quality of the Edge replicas were fine. Not CCM/Koho or Starter good, but fine. Again, if you conceded that the good old days of the late 90s and early/mid 2000s weren’t coming back? It was fine. 

 

Now though? Quality’s devolved again. Only instead of going from good to fine it’s gone from fine to crap. 

The most egregious offenders are the Fanatics replicas. Which are little more than cheap imitations of the Edge replicas, only now with thin, plastic crests. I do not exaggerate when I say they’re trash.

 

The Adidas “authentics” (which have more in common with replicas than actual authentics) look bad thanks to the above-mentioned collar issues. 

The mesh shoulders aren’t helping though. I actually had high hopes for the mesh at first. Mesh can be used to great effect to add texture and pattern to something. Mesh was used to great effect with the first Atlanta Thrashers alternate. The navy base with the powder blue mesh on top looked stunning. 

 

Sadly? The mesh in this case looks cheap. I’ve examined the new sweaters on the rack. I’ve sat next to people wearing them. The mesh looks trashy, like Adidas attempted to use cheaper materials for that part of the sweater to cut costs. It looks like it bunches, and just doesn’t look appealing. Especially not for the retail price tag.

 

My apologies if that was a bit of a ramble. It’s just that I’ve been thinking about what bugs me about the Reebok to Adidas changeover. And aside from the drop in quality? The re-introduction of a template that will compromise league-wide design for a half-decade at least so soon after the previous case of that had just been sorted (mostly) just bugs me.    

 

 

 

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Even if I like Winter Classic jerseys the NHL missed a huge opportunity to do a brilliant 90's matchup

5441-135Fr.jpgvs5499.jpg

 

Like JR said "Can you Feel it?! Can you Sense it?!"

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7 minutes ago, pepis21 said:

Even if I like Winter Classic jerseys the NHL missed a huge opportunity to do a brilliant 90's matchup

5441-135Fr.jpgvs5499.jpg

 

Like JR said "Can you Feel it?! Can you Sense it?!"

 

That would have been so amazing!

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10 hours ago, Morgo said:

 

Fair enough but you've been known for defending the new collars in the past so it wasn't that big of a leap.  The problem with the Rangers collar is the same problem that plagues all the Adidas jerseys.  It's just too big.  Shrink the thickness down a little bit and it would look fine.

 

I think you’re misinterpreting “defending” and “explaining the functional benefit of the new design vs. the old.” Aesthetically, I’d prefer a slightly thinner and simpler collar, to be honest, so long as the comfort of the new design isn’t sacrificed.

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1 hour ago, Ice_Cap said:

Anyway I digress. The Reebok Edge replicas were indeed a huge step down quality-wise from what came before. This, coupled with the horrid Edge designs, did not leave a good first impression.


In full agreement with you here.  The drop in quality from the CCM/Koho replica's to the premier series was nothing short of shocking.  The easily wrinkled materials, plastic shoulder patches, jock tags and idiotic slits at the sides of the hems conspired to create one cheap looking product.  It indeed seemed like the golden age of hockey sweaters was at an end...
 

Quote

 

Now though? Quality’s devolved again. Only instead of going from good to fine it’s gone from fine to crap. 

The most egregious offenders are the Fanatics replicas. Which are little more than cheap imitations of the Edge replicas, only now with thin, plastic crests. I do not exaggerate when I say they’re trash.

 

The Adidas “authentics” (which have more in common with replicas than actual authentics) look bad thanks to the above-mentioned collar issues. 

The mesh shoulders aren’t helping though. I actually had high hopes for the mesh at first. Mesh can be used to great effect to add texture and pattern to something. Mesh was used to great effect with the first Atlanta Thrashers alternate. The navy base with the powder blue mesh on top looked stunning. 

 

Sadly? The mesh in this case looks cheap. I’ve examined the new sweaters on the rack. I’ve sat next to people wearing them. The mesh looks trashy, like Adidas attempted to use cheaper materials for that part of the sweater to cut costs. It looks like it bunches, and just doesn’t look appealing. Especially not for the retail price tag.

 


...That being said, I am very impressed with the quality of the new Adidas Authentics.  All the crests are stitched-on & fully embroidered, the materials are of much higher quality than the Edge series (both Authentics and Replica's) and they're $150 cheaper than an Authentic Edge jersey.  I bought a grey Golden Knights jersey a few weeks ago and can't find anything cheap looking about it.  It looks worlds better than the two Edge Authentics I own and the mesh material on the shoulders hasn't bunched in the slightest.  It looks solid and adds some texture and definition to the uniform.

That being said, I'm sure the fanatics jerseys are as trashy as you say they are.  I luckily haven't seen them in person yet.

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This idea of "collar discomfort" is like the setup for an infomercial:

 

"Fellas: are you tired of feeling the existence of your collar?"
*tortured, overwrought neck-massaging, exasperated palms-down pose* "There's GOT to BE a better WAY!"

"Now there is, with the new Adidas PilgrimNeck!"

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10 minutes ago, the admiral said:

This idea of "collar discomfort" is like the setup for an infomercial:

 

"Fellas: are you tired of feeling the existence of your collar?"
*tortured, overwrought neck-massaging, exasperated palms-down pose* "There's GOT to BE a better WAY!"

"Now there is, with the new Adidas PilgrimNeck!"

 

I’ve had a polyester rib collar rub my neck raw on both sides before. It sucked. Real bad. Thus, I appreciate these types of comfort improvements. The athletes wearing them seem to as well. We’d still be in chunky wool turtleneck sweaters if everyone longed for the status quo and dismissed functional innovation like some of you guys do. ^_^

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2 hours ago, pepis21 said:

Even if I like Winter Classic jerseys the NHL missed a huge opportunity to do a brilliant 90's matchup

5441-135Fr.jpg

 

It seems like the Sabres want to distance themselves from that late 90s and early-to-mid 2000s look.

 

Looking back, the black, grey, and red had a solid run because it was a fine look. It just seems like it wasn't made for the Sabres, who were stripped of both of their main colors of blue and yellow.

 

I wonder how Buffalo hometown fans felt about their decade wearing New Jersey Devils colors.

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10 minutes ago, andrewharrington said:

 We’d still be in chunky wool turtleneck sweaters if everyone longed for the status quo and dismissed functional innovation like some of you guys do. ^_^

 

Well, this is a fashion board, after all, dearest strawman bringer. Functional innovations that look bad are going to get bagged on. I don't care how much a new performance t-shirt wicks moisture or that its ultralight seam construction drops 15 grams from its weight, if it looks like butt, I'm not buying it.

 

And that is an objective here - alongside outfitting teams, adidas has to move product. And it's harder to move an ugly product. We're two months into the season, and I'm still seeing lots of Blackhawks fans - and I'm sure most of them are not niche aesthetes - talking about how ugly the collars are. When you make something look worse to the consumer and you charge more for it, that is going to be a problem for your business. And it seems like the innovations in this generation of product are, on the whole, not aesthetic improvements. Any team with a laced "neck" looks like a joke. If there was no way to make the laces look good, then say to the teams, "Look, we're not doing laces anymore, they don't fit with the cut, they add weight, we can offer you this, this, or this instead." As-is, the laces make the design process look flawed. They say to the consumer, as does the collar, "We're a giant sports company who couldn't figure out how to make a hockey jersey look like a hockey jersey." Same goes for any team with contrasting shoulder yokes or vertical sleeve striping. Because the shoulder area is now wider and shorter than it's been previously, it makes for some awkward looks.

 

As for the performance aspect, I can't attest to it personally, but we haven't heard any stories of pooling sweat like the Edge 1.0 rollout, and the jerseys aren't shredding like Nike's NBA tissue paper. So, it seems like they're holding their own on the ice. But again, you gotta sell this to the public, not just teams, and telling me your new jersey features adidas Clima® technology to deliver breathability and enhanced performance when my main performances in it are drinking and swearing doesn't get my wallet out for something more expensive and less attractive.

 

10 years ago, I think it was Neon Matrix who bought a new Edge 1.0 Flyers jersey and tried to wow us all by taking pictures of what happened when he poured a glass of water on it. Somehow, I was able to hold back on purchases until the designs got better and the 7187s started hitting clearance racks.

 

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3 hours ago, Sodboy13 said:

 

Well, this is a fashion board, after all, dearest strawman bringer. Functional innovations that look bad are going to get bagged on. I don't care how much a new performance t-shirt wicks moisture or that its ultralight seam construction drops 15 grams from its weight, if it looks like butt, I'm not buying it.

 

And that is an objective here - alongside outfitting teams, adidas has to move product. And it's harder to move an ugly product. We're two months into the season, and I'm still seeing lots of Blackhawks fans - and I'm sure most of them are not niche aesthetes - talking about how ugly the collars are. When you make something look worse to the consumer and you charge more for it, that is going to be a problem for your business. And it seems like the innovations in this generation of product are, on the whole, not aesthetic improvements. Any team with a laced "neck" looks like a joke. If there was no way to make the laces look good, then say to the teams, "Look, we're not doing laces anymore, they don't fit with the cut, they add weight, we can offer you this, this, or this instead." As-is, the laces make the design process look flawed. They say to the consumer, as does the collar, "We're a giant sports company who couldn't figure out how to make a hockey jersey look like a hockey jersey." Same goes for any team with contrasting shoulder yokes or vertical sleeve striping. Because the shoulder area is now wider and shorter than it's been previously, it makes for some awkward looks.

 

As for the performance aspect, I can't attest to it personally, but we haven't heard any stories of pooling sweat like the Edge 1.0 rollout, and the jerseys aren't shredding like Nike's NBA tissue paper. So, it seems like they're holding their own on the ice. But again, you gotta sell this to the public, not just teams, and telling me your new jersey features adidas Clima® technology to deliver breathability and enhanced performance when my main performances in it are drinking and swearing doesn't get my wallet out for something more expensive and less attractive.

 

10 years ago, I think it was Neon Matrix who bought a new Edge 1.0 Flyers jersey and tried to wow us all by taking pictures of what happened when he poured a glass of water on it. Somehow, I was able to hold back on purchases until the designs got better and the 7187s started hitting clearance racks.

 

 

Exactly, which is why I’ve been clear to separate the form from the function with every comment I make.

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There’s also the simple fact that some of these “innovations” disappear as soon as it’s time for the next rollout.  Meaning their actual function is very much in question.  There is ample evidence that manufacturers design these elements as much to stand out, to advertise their products, as for the performance aspects. 

 

So let’s not pretend that we’re missing the point when we debate their aesthetics.  Those aesthetics are the point. 

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I finally got a chance to touch both a replica and authentic jersey the other day. The authentic feels like absolute garbage compared to a reebok on-ice authentic  (canadian). The replica feels like a walmart product.

 

Very disappointed. 

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The Adidas Indonesian "authentic" is essentially a Reebok Premier with a fight strap added. It's even worse than the Indo-Edges.

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I will say that mesh shoulders- proper mesh that is, akin to the kind used on the old Thrashers and Predators alternates- would a great design element for a team or two to use. Not so much a league-wide thing though. 

It could look really cool for the Kings and Knights though, if done right.

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3 hours ago, CRichardson said:

The Adidas Indonesian "authentic" is essentially a Reebok Premier with a fight strap added. It's even worse than the Indo-Edges.

 

Except the materials are thicker, nothing wrinkles, all the patches are embroidered & stitched on, there's no jock tag, and there are no slits in the hem.  Honestly, I don't get what is so bad about the Indonesian authentics.  They seem like the perfect compromise for people who want something of similar quality to the old CCM replicas without shelling out $350 for an authentic.

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,The adizero Indonesian "authentics" are definitely not Premier Replicas with fight straps. There's double-layer material on the shoulders, and all the patches are sewn on and either embroidered or woven (as some teams have adopted for their shoulder patches.) On the Blackhawks ones, everything is chain-stitched. The problems with it, adidas template construction aside, are that all customization is done in the cheap Premier screened twill, if you're buying from Fanatics or most of your local retailers. Even at the Blackhawks Store, where blanks are being sold for $225, the Kane and Toews jerseys are all customized in screened twill, because the biggest players are getting produced in bulk at the factory.

 

The suggested $180 retail isn't that bad when viewed in the context of the Reebok Premiers going for $130 (which was really, really bad.) I have seen them for as low as $140 as some retailers. When you consider that 11 years ago, the going rate for a CCM/Koho replica with glued-on crests and no fight strap was $85-90, that seems reasonable.

 

Has anyone seen the Canadian-made 7387s pop up for sale anywhere yet?

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43 minutes ago, Sodboy13 said:

,The adizero Indonesian "authentics" are definitely not Premier Replicas with fight straps. There's double-layer material on the shoulders, and all the patches are sewn on and either embroidered or woven (as some teams have adopted for their shoulder patches.) On the Blackhawks ones, everything is chain-stitched. The problems with it, adidas template construction aside, are that all customization is done in the cheap Premier screened twill, if you're buying from Fanatics or most of your local retailers. Even at the Blackhawks Store, where blanks are being sold for $225, the Kane and Toews jerseys are all customized in screened twill, because the biggest players are getting produced in bulk at the factory.

 

The suggested $180 retail isn't that bad when viewed in the context of the Reebok Premiers going for $130 (which was really, really bad.) I have seen them for as low as $140 as some retailers. When you consider that 11 years ago, the going rate for a CCM/Koho replica with glued-on crests and no fight strap was $85-90, that seems reasonable.

 

Has anyone seen the Canadian-made 7387s pop up for sale anywhere yet?

 

See, that's the thing. I can't recall the "suggested $180 retail" being the actual price anywhere. They're $225 at the Ducks team store also (at the arena and online).

 

I mean, I just checked Shop.NHL.com, and I guess they're $180 there. But as far as in person sales (and for most fans here, *the* place to get anything is the store at the arena), I've only seen the $225. (It's better than the $330 their asking for the EDGE authentic third jerseys from last season. Yes, no discount on those. That they're still selling. Hint Hint as to what the new Ducks jerseys will look like next year. They're also charging $500 for Selanne/Kariya Mighty Ducks CCM replica jerseys. Which is absurd.)

 

Also, Shop.NHL.com has Reebok Premiers discounted down to $80 for anyone interested.

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5 minutes ago, Still MIGHTY said:

 

See, that's the thing. I can't recall the "suggested $180 retail" being the actual price anywhere. They're $225 at the Ducks team store also (at the arena and online).

 

I mean, I just checked Shop.NHL.com, and I guess they're $180 there. But as far as in person sales (and for most fans here, *the* place to get anything is the store at the arena), I've only seen the $225. (It's better than the $330 their asking for the EDGE authentic third jerseys from last season. Yes, no discount on those. That they're still selling. Hint Hint as to what the new Ducks jerseys will look like next year. They're also charging $500 for Selanne/Kariya Mighty Ducks CCM replica jerseys. Which is absurd.)

 

Also, Shop.NHL.com has Reebok Premiers discounted down to $80 for anyone interested.

 

Arena shops always have higher (non-sale) prices than the mainstream online shops. 

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