BBTV Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 hour ago, jmac11281 said: It will be interesting to see how RBs in this era are judged as far as HOF worthiness. Tomlinson was probably the last RB to have a long successful career despite taking on a huge workload each season. I admit I'm not that up on current NFL players, but I guess Adrian Peterson would be the big test. A quick check shows he's got 8 "real" seasons under his belt, and will likely have a few more. At the end of the day though, did he really make the Vikings a better team? He's obviously an unrepentant scumbag, but the voters for the Hall are instructed to not consider off-the-field behavior (though some have blatantly admitted to doing so.) Regarding TO: A valid point that I heard was that while his talent and numbers are 1st-ballot HOF worthy, the fact that 3 teams dumped him while in his prime, and that while he made multiple QBs look better than they actually were, he also was (at least partially) responsible for the destruction of teams, which means that he had more of an overall negative impact to teams despite his numbers. When I look at his time in Philadelphia (believe it or not, I and at least some others actually see the Eagles as his main team, despite only playing 1.5 seasons here) I think all of his issues could have been handled so much better by the organization and his teammates, specifically that pvssy McNabb. His performance in the SB on a broken leg was HOF worthy in itself. "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayMac Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 minute ago, BringBackTheVet said: I admit I'm not that up on current NFL players, but I guess Adrian Peterson would be the big test. A quick check shows he's got 8 "real" seasons under his belt, and will likely have a few more. At the end of the day though, did he really make the Vikings a better team? He's obviously an unrepentant scumbag, but the voters for the Hall are instructed to not consider off-the-field behavior (though some have blatantly admitted to doing so.) Regarding TO: A valid point that I heard was that while his talent and numbers are 1st-ballot HOF worthy, the fact that 3 teams dumped him while in his prime, and that while he made multiple QBs look better than they actually were, he also was (at least partially) responsible for the destruction of teams, which means that he had more of an overall negative impact to teams despite his numbers. When I look at his time in Philadelphia (believe it or not, I and at least some others actually see the Eagles as his main team, despite only playing 1.5 seasons here) I think all of his issues could have been handled so much better by the organization and his teammates, specifically that pvssy McNabb. His performance in the SB on a broken leg was HOF worthy in itself. I knew I'd forget an obvious. Peterson is definitely a HOFer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnWis97 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 22 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said: I admit I'm not that up on current NFL players, but I guess Adrian Peterson would be the big test. A quick check shows he's got 8 "real" seasons under his belt, and will likely have a few more. At the end of the day though, did he really make the Vikings a better team? He's obviously an unrepentant scumbag, but the voters for the Hall are instructed to not consider off-the-field behavior (though some have blatantly admitted to doing so.) Regarding TO: A valid point that I heard was that while his talent and numbers are 1st-ballot HOF worthy, the fact that 3 teams dumped him while in his prime, and that while he made multiple QBs look better than they actually were, he also was (at least partially) responsible for the destruction of teams, which means that he had more of an overall negative impact to teams despite his numbers. When I look at his time in Philadelphia (believe it or not, I and at least some others actually see the Eagles as his main team, despite only playing 1.5 seasons here) I think all of his issues could have been handled so much better by the organization and his teammates, specifically that pvssy McNabb. His performance in the SB on a broken leg was HOF worthy in itself. There seems to be two angles to the TO issue. First that he was a jerk to the media and if you ask me, that's not something they should consider. To my knowledge he had no off-the-field problems. Anyone that would not vote for him for that should not vote. But the other angle is that he legitimately hurt his team by being divisive in the locker room...and we know how they feel about "distractions" in football. If the team's W-L legitimately suffered because of his antics, then I guess it's a legitimate question. Disclaimer: If this comment is about an NBA uniform from 2017-2018 or later, do not constitute a lack of acknowledgement of the corporate logo to mean anything other than "the corporate logo is terrible and makes the uniform significantly worse." BADGERS TWINS VIKINGS TIMBERWOLVES WILD POTD (Shared) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 On 2/8/2017 at 6:26 PM, OnWis97 said: But the other angle is that he legitimately hurt his team by being divisive in the locker room...and we know how they feel about "distractions" in football. If the team's W-L legitimately suffered because of his antics, then I guess it's a legitimate question. I do think this is a legitimate area for discussion. The HoF voters should not consider off-the-field issues, but the locker room counts as on-field for the purpose of this discussion. The fact that more than one team was willing to dump him in the prime of his career, with all that talent, because of his effect on the team? Seems worthy of consideration. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 On 02/08/2017 at 2:59 PM, BringBackTheVet said: I admit I'm not that up on current NFL players, but I guess Adrian Peterson would be the big test. A quick check shows he's got 8 "real" seasons under his belt, and will likely have a few more. At the end of the day though, did he really make the Vikings a better team? He's obviously an unrepentant scumbag, but the voters for the Hall are instructed to not consider off-the-field behavior (though some have blatantly admitted to doing so.) Voters already are at the big RB test(s)....Edgerrin James and Fred Taylor. Frank Gore is still active at #8 in rushing yards, so a dude who has torn both ACLs, still averages 4.4 ypc, and is likely to pass Curtis Martin next season (~1,050 away) is in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 23 hours ago, Gothamite said: I do think this is a legitimate area for discussion. The HoF voters should not consider off-the-field issues, but the locker room counts as on-field for the purpose of this discussion. The fact that more than one team was willing to dump him in the prime of his career, with all that talent, because of his effect on the team? Seems worthy of consideration. Shouldn't the fact a sizable number of NFL GMs are risk-averse morons also be a consideration? For Owens while he was an elite receiver-the decision to cut ties with San Fran was driven by him wanting out rather than him being a "cancer". Philly dumped him because he got Drew Rosenhaus as an agent and, well, acted like a player who has Drew Rosenhaus as an agent. (hardly a HOF-chance damning offense, that). On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 No, because the decision to cut him didn't come from a GM alone. He wasn't cut over the objections of the coaches. When that many organizations think they're better off without him, that tells us something about him, not them. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 9 hours ago, rams80 said: Shouldn't the fact a sizable number of NFL GMs are risk-averse morons also be a consideration? For Owens while he was an elite receiver-the decision to cut ties with San Fran was driven by him wanting out rather than him being a "cancer". Philly dumped him because he got Drew Rosenhaus as an agent and, well, acted like a player who has Drew Rosenhaus as an agent. (hardly a HOF-chance damning offense, that). That's not why the Eagles cut him. There was a while arbitration hearing where they listed their grievances. Plus McNabb was jealous. And he picked a fight with a retired player. At the end of the day, unless the agent is deliberately withholding information, it can't be the agent's fault. The agent works for the player - not the other way around. The player calls the shots and bears the responsibility for his decisions. "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Squared Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Anyone who thinks TD shouldn't be in or who compares him to a Chris Johnson is conveniently ignoring that, as great as TD was in the regular season, he averaged 163 rushing yards per playoff game (!!!) and carried Denver to consecutive Super Bowl titles, which is obviously why he's in. That a 2,000 yard rusher increased his output in the postseason is mind-boggling. I get why the inclusion of playoff stats are subjective, but the “what if” card doesn't flip both ways. If you can't hold it against Barry and OJ for playing on bad teams (though Barry's mediocre playoff career is ripe for analysis), you surely can't ignore how the TD's & Aikman's of the NFL are deserved HOF'ers because, as great as they were in Autumn, each played his best football in January and played disproportionally large playoff roles in leading their teams to multiple titles in short windows. TD is an all-time great - no “what if” card necessary. My TeePublic Shop My Instagram Art Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 2 hours ago, Gothamite said: No, because the decision to cut him didn't come from a GM alone. He wasn't cut over the objections of the coaches. When that many organizations think they're better off without him, that tells us something about him, not them. 2 out of 32 NFL teams thought they were "better off without him" at a time when that could be used as an indictment of him personally rather than his skills. The reality is San Francisco drove off a cliff the first season he was gone and didn't get back on track until they hired Jim Harbaugh. So I'm not sure you can make that claim. Philly maybe, but how much of what went down in 2005 could also be laid at the feet of "post-Super Bowl hangover"? On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 That might even strengthen the evidence against him - teams on the bubble, teams that needed talent, those teams wanted him out of their locker rooms. Pretty damning. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 3 hours ago, Gothamite said: That might even strengthen the evidence against him - teams on the bubble, teams that needed talent, those teams wanted him out of their locker rooms. Pretty damning. I'm not inclined to hold San Francisco blameless here given that the only DeBartolo/York who had two brain cells to rub together hasn't been involved with the team in a decision-making capacity since 2000. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont care Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I personally can't keep Owens out just because they were a d-bag in the locker room during their career. When I think about Owen I think about a guy who was physically superior to all competition and is either second or third in every receiving category that I know of. That alone should have made him a first ballot HoFer. He was just a jerk, not a criminal like some current HoFers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschoolvikings Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 If you're ranking all-time receivers, do you put Owens ahead of Cris Carter? Just curious. http://dstewartpaint.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont care Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, oldschoolvikings said: If you're ranking all-time receivers, do you put Owens ahead of Cris Carter? Just curious. 100% yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, oldschoolvikings said: If you're ranking all-time receivers, do you put Owens ahead of Cris Carter? Just curious. Nothing against Chris Carter, but taking the locker room stuff out of the equation, I don't think there's even a discussion to be had. "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiddySicks Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 20 hours ago, Gothamite said: That might even strengthen the evidence against him - teams on the bubble, teams that needed talent, those teams wanted him out of their locker rooms. Pretty damning. You do realize who's been running the 49ers since the turn of the century and how big of idiots they are, right? The Niners get ZERO benefit of the doubt on this case, because they don't deserve it. EDIT: Rams basically summed it up. It's the dumbass Yorks fault for most of that garbage. On 11/19/2012 at 7:23 PM, oldschoolvikings said: She’s still half convinced “Chris Creamer” is a porn site.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rj0498 Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I believe a voter said that he didn't vote for t.o because of all of his dropped passes even though, they voted in Brett Favre (THE ALL TIME LEADER IN INTERCEPTIONS) no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 57 minutes ago, Rj0498 said: I believe a voter said that he didn't vote for t.o because of all of his dropped passes even though, they voted in Brett Favre (THE ALL TIME LEADER IN INTERCEPTIONS) no problem. Can you show that the same person made those votes? Because different people can have different opinions, after all. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rj0498 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Gothamite said: Can you show that the same person made those votes? Because different people can have different opinions, after all. His name is Ron Borges of the boston herald I am not sure if he voted for Favre or not but, I am just saying that to use dropped passes to say someone doesn't deserve to go into the hall is dumb. Though i probably could have said it better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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