gosioux76

Intellectual property question re: unused logo designs

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19 minutes ago, gosioux76 said:

 

Just so it's not confusing, UND — the institution — seems completely satisfied with the process. The preliminary designs were sought by the city's daily newspaper, a request that was rejected on the grounds that the designs are trade secrets.

 

I'm arguing that those designs shouldn't be protected. And I'm arguing that SME's reasoning for doing so, that those designs have value that they may want to realize with another client in the future,  opens the question as to whether UND was presented with original work. 

 

Just wanted to make that point clear. 

 

I would tell a local newspaper no as well. "Trade secrets" may have been a polite why to say p*ss off. Most likely they presented ND with at least 5 concepts. Some or none could have contained recycled parts/pieces. Like you said, ND ultimately whittled it down to their liking.

 

For your own piece of mind, take a look at SME's portfolio. Any previous bird-related designs? Nothing suspicious, then sleep well my friend.

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1 minute ago, Derek said:

 

I would tell a local newspaper no as well. "Trade secrets" may have been a polite why to say p*ss off. Most likely they presented ND with at least 5 concepts. Some or none could have contained recycled parts/pieces. Like you said, ND ultimately whittled it down to their liking.

 

For your own piece of mind, take a look at SME's portfolio. Any previous bird-related designs? Nothing suspicious, then sleep well my friend.

Fair enough. I just don't share such a disdain for public transparency. 

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8 minutes ago, gosioux76 said:

Fair enough. I just don't share such a disdain for public transparency. 

 

I understand your concern. ND was a special case with the name change as well. You could assume no matter what was unveiled, there would be resistance. Throw in 5 or so other concepts in a local newspaper, and you have opinions/preferences/likes/dislikes across the board. 

 

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Just now, Derek said:

 

I understand your concern. ND was a special case with the name change as well. You could assume no matter what was unveiled, there would be resistance. Throw in 5 or so other concepts in a local newspaper, and you have opinions/preferences/likes/dislikes across the board. 

 

You're right. But keeping them hidden also makes it look like you have something to hide. It's a real can of worms.

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Just now, gosioux76 said:

You're right. But keeping them hidden also makes it look like you have something to hide. It's a real can of worms.

 

I'm not saying you don't have a valid argument, just trying to explain why you don't unveil a runner-up.

 

Its only hidden from the general public, the powers that be at ND saw it, in all fairness.

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4 minutes ago, Derek said:

 

I'm not saying you don't have a valid argument, just trying to explain why you don't unveil a runner-up.

 

Its only hidden from the general public, the powers that be at ND saw it, in all fairness.

I get that — I really do. But when it's a public institution, there shouldn't be anything hidden from the general public. 

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As an aside, I've long wanted to do a book, when I retire, of logos I created that I felt were the best for a client, and then showing the logo the client actually selected. Those here that are designers can probably sympathize with how rarely what we feel is the best solution actually sees the light of day. 

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12 minutes ago, gosioux76 said:

I get that — I really do. But when it's a public institution, there shouldn't be anything hidden from the general public. 

Maybe ND purchased the rights to everything and have it locked up somewhere on campus ;)

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2 minutes ago, hawk36 said:

As an aside, I've long wanted to do a book, when I retire, of logos I created that I felt were the best for a client, and then showing the logo the client actually selected. Those here that are designers can probably sympathize with how rarely what we feel is the best solution actually sees the light of day. 

I'd buy that book.

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Just now, gosioux76 said:

I'd buy that book.

Probably would have a tough time getting it through legal though. Still would be a great resource for business majors to see how non-designers in business can really hurt an end product. Actually came up with the idea with my brother who was a business major. 

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Just now, hawk36 said:

Probably would have a tough time getting it through legal though. Still would be a great resource for business majors to see how non-designers in business can really hurt an end product. Actually came up with the idea with my brother who was a business major. 

 

Yeah, I can imagine that might be a beast when it comes to getting the appropriate approvals. Great idea, though. Really useful. 

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34 minutes ago, hawk36 said:

As an aside, I've long wanted to do a book, when I retire, of logos I created that I felt were the best for a client, and then showing the logo the client actually selected. Those here that are designers can probably sympathize with how rarely what we feel is the best solution actually sees the light of day. 

 

that's called a portfolio :P

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4 hours ago, gosioux76 said:

I'm arguing that those designs shouldn't be protected. And I'm arguing that SME's reasoning for doing so, that those designs have value that they may want to realize with another client in the future,  opens the question as to whether UND was presented with original work. 

 

No, it really doesn't.

 

Even if those preliminary designs become part of the process for another client, that doesn't mean that other client will be "presented with unoriginal work".  Logo design is a conversation, a collaboration between the designer and the client.  Each comes to the table with a set of ideas, which then become grist for the mill.

 

So it makes sense that SME would want to retain its original concepts, which may bear no resemblance to the finished product, and which they might want to bring to the conversation with another client in the future.  

 

None of that means in any way that SME is recycling designs, or that clients aren't getting their money's worth, or that SME's design for North Dakota is anything other than a design produced specifically for North Dakota.

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The "unrealized stadium designs" thread reminded me that it's not just logo designers who re-purpose unsold designs.  

 

In the mid-1980s, the architecture firm HOK were hired to design a new stadium for the White Sox, who were looking to replace the aging Comiskey Park.  HOK came in with a beautiful design for an intimate, brick-shrouded, retro ballpark, but the White Sox wanted something bigger and more contemporary. HOK gave their clients what they wanted, but filed away the throwback-park design and ended up selling it to their next client.  Seems the Baltimore Orioles had a bit more foresight, and Camden Yards was instantly considered a modern classic.

 

So, should the White Sox have owned the design of Camden Yards even though they turned it down at the time?  Did the Orioles get cheated by buying a "recycled" design?  Seems pretty straightforward that an architect retains any unused designs, why not a graphic designer?

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