Jump to content

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 754
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Green's supposed to be a 3 and D guy, but I never see him hit 3s when it matters. At least not in 2015-16.

 

Next steps:

- Paul signs a one-year max deal in San Antonio with a player option for 18/19 (just like Durant did last year)

- The Vince Carters of the world flip a coin between take veteran minimum deals with Golden State or San Antonio.

- Golden State re-signs everyone (importantly, Iguodola), which forces Carter to the Spurs.

- The Spurs win the 2018 Finals over the Cavs

- Ring in hand, Paul declines his 18/19 player option and heads to the Lakers

- LeBron tells Gilbert to eff off forever and also heads to LA

- Dwyane Wade signs a veterans minimum to play in LA in 18/19

- Melo remains on the outside looking in because of his stupid contract that keeps him locked up until the 2019 offseason

- Warriors win the 2019 title anyway

 

If Paul signs the SUPERMAX with the Clippers all of this goes to hell.

1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said:

and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, rams80 said:

 

I'm pretty sure the Bulls won multiple draft lotteries in that time frame AND did a better job of developing players.

 

And that won them what exactly?  The point of the process was not to be good, it was to win titles. There's no parade for finishing 3rd in the east or turning 18-year olds into serviceable small forwards. 

"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I so, so hate the "success is binary" mentality among Sixers fans. In that, unless you win a title your season is garbage. It's so simple-minded and justifies a lot of really bad actions.

 

The purpose of pro sports is to entertain fans, not to play games with the salary floor and asset management while writing stupid 17-page Ted Kaczynski letters.

 

NBA success is iterative and requires building on something. The 2014-15 Cavs had a shot at the title because Kyrie and Tristan Thompson were there. The 2004 miracle Pistons won 50 games the season before. Even 2003 LeBron James -- the gold standard for draft picks -- missed the playoffs his first year.

 

Embiid's played 30 games in three years. Simmons 25 in two. Fultz has had multiple knee issues. When do we get to officially declare the process a failure? If they team doesn't win the title this year? Next? The year after? And if there's supposed to be patience with developing the core, why does Hinkie get a pass for only giving a crap about the team between the Finals and the Draft and no other time?

1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said:

and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Legit question, because I don't know anything about NBA - what team in the 00s has organically turned themselves from an 7-8ish seed into a legit title contender?  Without bottoming out and drafting a HOFer, or signing Lebron?  I totally agree about sports needing to be entertaining, and that the binary mentality serves nothing but to lessen your enjoyment of an otherwise great season filled with great moments.  A total contrast from how I used to feel about it when I really cared about SPORTS (one reason why I look back more fondly on the Andy Reid era now than I did when it was actually occurring.)

 

The chance to win is exciting.  Watching really good basketball is entertaining.  The actual championship is icing on the cake. 

 

Is a perennial 8 seed really entertaining?  Even a 7 or 6?  Do they really have a chance at a title?  Or are they essentially just the Washington Generals for the great teams?

 

The point of the Process was that without a miracle or some stroke of luck (Lebron wants to play for you) you'll never go from mediocre to great.  The only way to become great is to bottom out.  The only way to be really great is to bottom out and acquire assets to use to turn into great players.  The jury is still out.  If Embiid simply can't play, then fine call it a failure.  If he can, and the team is exciting and takes great strides this year, then it's still too early to call it a failure.  It's not realistic to beat Lebron next year, or probably even the year after (maybe not even at all while he's still on Cleveland) but if they can be competitive with his team in an ECF then that's pretty darn good - as long as they remain consistently at that level.  If all the process got us was one ECF run, then yeah let's amputate Embiids broken foot and shove it up Hinke's ass.

 

 

DC3ziIdXUAMEKZf.jpg:large

"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This super team version of the Warriors didn't tank to get to this point. Yeah they got extremely lucky in their drafts and trades, but that's about as likely as getting everything you need from stockpiling picks, sucking on purpose and drafting in the top 2 of multiple drafts. And as long as it looks like you're trying you also don't scorch the earth for your fanbase and you don't make it doubly difficult by instilling a losing culture to dig out of.

 

Only one team gets to win it all at the end of the year and championship teams have been built a lot of different ways. Theres no right way to do it, but I'm pretty sure alienating a fanbase and losing 72 out of 82 games is the wrong way, especially when there's no guarantee it's gonna work.

 

 

PvO6ZWJ.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your argument isn't invalid, but I'd argue that the potential benefit of the process outweighs the downside.  Being .500 every year eventually gets just as bad as being terrible.  

 

Don't give me the Warriors.  I just looked it up and Curry was a #7 pick.  As far as the NBA draft goes, that's essentially the same as taking Tom Brady in the 6th round. 

 

Kevin Durant ain't signing with a 41-41 team.  

"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is your reminder that the Sixers' last NBA title came as a result of Dr. J (who only played for the Sixers because the Knicks forced a Nets fire sale upon joining the NBA) and Moses Malone being on the same team.

 

The punch line here is that even if Philly's core does come online and pans out like they should on paper and actually plays something approximately a full season, they'll probably hover around 50 wins.  Which is good, except they'd probably not be good enough to get past Cleveland or Boston (at least) in a 7 game series.

 

The Process made you the 3rd best team in the East!  Which is exactly what The Process was supposed to prevent! Huzzah!

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

- The Spurs won Tim Duncan and then became a dynasty. They were able to do that because David Robinson got injured in 96 so they tanked. Then they drafted Tony Parker, Manu Ginobli and Kawhi Leonard. This is the best case scenario for the Sixers.

- The Lakers signed Shaq as a free agent, drafted Kobe and Derek Fisher, and added pieces like Robert Horry, Rick Fox, and virgin AC Green.

- The Pistons drafted Tayshaun Prince and made incredibly smart trades.

- The Heat drafted Wade and made a smart trade for Shaq

- The Celtics managed assets well and traded for Garnett and Allen

- The Lakers traded one Gasol for another, drafted Bynum, and had almost a second dynasty

- The Heatles had Wade and were an attractive destination for James and Bosh

- The Mavs drafted Nowitzki and made smart trades/additions

- The 2014-15 Warriors were based on home run draft picks and smart additions

 

Basically, there's no singular path to an NBA title and most of the 2000s required some combination of good-to-great drafting and good-to-great roster management. Hinkie putting all of his eggs in one basket was always destined for failure because it's an infantile approach to developing a team.

1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said:

and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure what relevance Dr. J has in any of this.

 

The Process couldn't have predicted that Lebron would be back in Cleveland and be the best team all by himself.

 

Those examples actually prove that the process was necessary.  The Sixers aren't signing a Shaq.  Hell, there isn't any Shaqs anymore.  They're not luring the best player on the planet and his boy to come play for them.  They're not an attractive destination for super friends to run to.  Maybe the Pistons are relevant, I don't really remember too well from back then (other than Larry Brown left to coach them.) The Mavs got lucky and drafted a HOFer in a relatively late pick.

 

It's basically you have to be lucky and draft Tom Brady in the 6th round, be good enough that you can trade for a HOFer to put you over the top (is that even possible today with the way the asinine cap works?), or be a destination where future HOFers want to go and play together.

 

I don't remember everything about those Pistons, but let's say that they did it the "legit" way and won it all.  Great.  They must have had a great GM.  There's not that many of those.  More HOFers come from #1 picks than from any other slot.  Why not maximize your chances of landing lots of those picks?

"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Sixers will dribble on the frozen blood of the non believers.

"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/4/2017 at 6:07 PM, anythinglogos said:

So who's gonna drop $500 for those Lonzo Ball shoes?

 

I was thinking of getting the $1000 autographed version, but eventually I settled on buying the $220 big baller brand flip flops

No way in hell I am...but I'm damn sure there are people out there who will just because they're so effin expensive.

 

On 6/20/2017 at 1:19 PM, DG_Now said:

Knicks are shopping Porzingis. LOL. Contract that team!

Why do the Knicks do these things?  Just WHY?  Is there some "Dumbest Trade" contest they're taking part in?

 

I'm not even a Knicks fan, and I miss when they were good.

 

2016cubscreamsig.png

A strong mind gets high off success, a weak mind gets high off bull🤬

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Steph was a #7

Draymond was #32

Klay was 11th

Durant was #2

Kawhi was 15th

Andre Iguodola was 9th

Tristan Thompson was 4th

Kevin Love was 5th

Manu was 57th

 

The point is that if you're going to base your team's success on the draft, you better be awesome at drafting. Drafting three bigs in a row, including two who were going to miss whole seasons, is decidedly not awesome at drafting.

 

I've done this exercise before, but other guys the Sixers could have drafted instead of who they did in the Hinkie years (13-15) include:

- Steven Adams, Rudy Gobert and Giannis instead of Nerlens Noel and MCW

- Marcus Smart, Julius Randle, Jusuf Nurkic, and/or Nikola Jokic instead of Embiid and Saric (though really, point Hinkie on this one if you're judging on All-NBA potential)

- Porzingis, Devin Booker, or Larry Nance Jr. instead of Jahlil Okafor

- Brandon Ingram or Jaylen Brown (both of who play basketball) instead of Simmons.

 

And if your thing is assets, you probably could have had Booker and Nance instead of Okafor. Or Nurkic and Jokic and Saric instead of just Embiid.

 

Yes, Hinkie (and the Colangelos) put together a core that could be good with Saric, McConnell, Embiid, Simmons, and Fultz. But that's four years of garbage when the team could have had actually good young players who play basketball instead of sit on benches.

1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said:

and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Not sure what relevance Dr. J has in any of this.

 

No Process could have landed the Sixers one of the two cornerstones for their only title in living memory for (probably) everyone here.

 

59 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

The Process couldn't have predicted that Lebron would be back in Cleveland and be the best team all by himself.

 

If your goal is "Titles or bust" you better make "get past LeBron" as part of your calculations in The Process era, because in all likelihood your path to a title is going to involve facing him.  And that was true when this first started.

 

59 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

Those examples actually prove that the process was necessary.  The Sixers aren't signing a Shaq.  Hell, there isn't any Shaqs anymore.  They're not luring the best player on the planet and his boy to come play for them.  They're not an attractive destination for super friends to run to.  Maybe the Pistons are relevant, I don't really remember too well from back then (other than Larry Brown left to coach them.) The Mavs got lucky and drafted a HOFer in a relatively late pick.

 

It's basically you have to be lucky and draft Tom Brady in the 6th round, be good enough that you can trade for a HOFer to put you over the top (is that even possible today with the way the asinine cap works?), or be a destination where future HOFers want to go and play together.

 

I don't remember everything about those Pistons, but let's say that they did it the "legit" way and won it all.  Great.  They must have had a great GM.  There's not that many of those.  More HOFers come from #1 picks than from any other slot.  Why not maximize your chances of landing lots of those picks?

 

In the last 20 years only 2 #1 overall picks have led teams to league titles: Duncan and LeBron (Irving helps, but Cleveland's not winning a title with just him).  It's not just getting the top picks, it's having the top pick on that rare occasion when a literal once-in-a-generation talent comes up.  The Process can't plan for that, and The Process can't give you the blind luck needed for that.

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DG_Now said:

- The Spurs won Tim Duncan and then became a dynasty. They were able to do that because David Robinson got injured in 96 so they tanked. Then they drafted Tony Parker, Manu Ginobli and Kawhi Leonard. This is the best case scenario for the Sixers.

- The Lakers signed Shaq as a free agent, drafted Kobe and Derek Fisher, and added pieces like Robert Horry, Rick Fox, and virgin AC Green.

- The Pistons drafted Tayshaun Prince and made incredibly smart trades.

- The Heat drafted Wade and made a smart trade for Shaq

- The Celtics managed assets well and traded for Garnett and Allen

- The Lakers traded one Gasol for another, drafted Bynum, and had almost a second dynasty

- The Heatles had Wade and were an attractive destination for James and Bosh

- The Mavs drafted Nowitzki and made smart trades/additions

- The 2014-15 Warriors were based on home run draft picks and smart additions

 

Basically, there's no singular path to an NBA title and most of the 2000s required some combination of good-to-great drafting and good-to-great roster management. Hinkie putting all of his eggs in one basket was always destined for failure because it's an infantile approach to developing a team.

To add to some of these:

The Mavs experimented for over a decade and really didn't respect the draft after Marquis Daniels and Devin Harris. Their free agent signers around Dirk generally failed: Dampier, LaFrenz, Brendan Haywood,  Evan Eschmeyer, Sam Dalembert, OJ Mayo, and Darren Collision. They had to trade to build both Finals teams.

 

The Warriors were still under Chris Cohan's ownership when Curry was drafted. Larry Reily was the defacto GM at the time. He also drafted Klay, Ekpe Udho, hired/fired Keith Smart and hired Mark Jackson. So all his moves, whether with Don Nelson involved or not, were good ones.

 

As for the Sixers, the process also blatantly kept the team well under the salary floor until the acquisition of a sizable contract which would take them to or near the floor so that their cash payment of the difference was much smaller.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Kaz said:

 

 

One of the reasons the Sixers didn't draft KP in the first place was because he skipped meetings/absolutely refused to meet with them pre draft. 

spacer.png

On 11/19/2012 at 7:23 PM, oldschoolvikings said:
She’s still half convinced “Chris Creamer” is a porn site.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, rams80 said:

 

No Process could have landed the Sixers one of the two cornerstones for their only title in living memory for (probably) everyone here.

 

 

If your goal is "Titles or bust" you better make "get past LeBron" as part of your calculations in The Process era, because in all likelihood your path to a title is going to involve facing him.  And that was true when this first started.

 

 

In the last 20 years only 2 #1 overall picks have led teams to league titles: Duncan and LeBron (Irving helps, but Cleveland's not winning a title with just him).  It's not just getting the top picks, it's having the top pick on that rare occasion when a literal once-in-a-generation talent comes up.  The Process can't plan for that, and The Process can't give you the blind luck needed for that.

 

You need to be in position to be lucky. Nobody ever said the process was a guarantee, but it put them in better position to get lucky with a generational talent or at least very good young players that a supplementary veteran could push over the top. 

 

To be honest, "it's not guaranteed to work" seems to be the only argument that anyone is making. Nothing else posted is relavent in any way to the discussion. 

 

If you want to say thay tankng, staying under the floor, and playing to acquire assets rather than to put a watchable product on the floor for you fans is unethical and tarnished the game, then fine - there's definitely an argument there. In the situation they were in (mostly due to Comcast not giving a F about them) they simply weren't going to be able to make the incremental improvements needed to rise above an 7-8 seed. 

 

The procees was the only option. Trust Hinkie, and trust the process. 

"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or, you know, you could get one or two good players in the draft, because those guys do show up every year, actually develop them, and with judicious cap management position yourself as a good team that could be a great team with the right FA or two and look at all of that Max Contract space we have!  You think Cleveland, Detroit, Boston (minus "the history") and San Antonio would be attractive FA destinations if they didn't win?  Golden State couldn't convince anyone to come there before they won.  I bet that would work just as well as gambling you have enough and the right ping pong ball when the generational talent shows up (and banking on the NBA not magically rigging the damn thing in the first place so that talent doesn't end up in a place where they will sit on the bench for the majority of their rookie contract with a nebulously defined injury.)

 

I bet that gets you a ring faster.

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.