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Well, LeBron's been making goo-goo eyes at the Lakers, the Clippers, and whoever else is Not Cleveland, can't be surprised someone would try to beat him to the punch. Totally normal healthy team in a totally normal healthy league here, nbd.

♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫

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David Stern turned into garbage at the end there, but he wouldn't have allowed the Durant signing to Golden State. It broke the game.

1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said:

and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags

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9 minutes ago, alxy8s said:

Irving wants to be the focal point of a team, and LeBron is leaving them for nothing in a year? Trade LeBron.

 

It sounds pretty crazy, but... Why not at least try? Better than getting left out in the cold TWICE. 

 

Imagine that return, too.

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On 11/19/2012 at 7:23 PM, oldschoolvikings said:
She’s still half convinced “Chris Creamer” is a porn site.)
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1 minute ago, Bucfan56 said:

 

It sounds pretty crazy, but... Why not at least try? Better than getting left out in the cold TWICE. 

 

Imagine that return, too.

 

What kind of legacy or relationship would LeBron expect with Cleveland if he left again?

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"I always wanted to be somebody, but now I realize I should have been more specific." Lily Tomlin

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This seems relevant:

 

 

I was anti-Kyrie until LeBron arrived and through the first year. But he's been amazing the last two seasons, especially in the playoffs.

 

But if he thinks he can lead a team on his own 90s style, he's crazy.

1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said:

and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags

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1 hour ago, DG_Now said:

I don't get Kyrie's motivation here, but he has no leverage. Maybe he wants out before LeBron leaves and then he's truly screwed.

 

Kyrie is awesome but there's no way Cleveland can trade him before the season starts. Maybe if LeBron has a season-ending injury. Otherwise I can't see it.

That's exactly why he wants out, and I don't blame him.  He knows what the Cavs are without LeBron.....trash.  He doesn't want to waste any of his prime years for a team that'll likely struggle to make the playoffs.

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Just read on Reddit that this explains the Cavs kicking the tires on Derrick Rose.

 

Say Kyrie does leave. Then do you package Love and Kyrie for LMA and everything the Spurs could possibly give? Kawhi is untouchable, but if the Cavs ended up with a starting five of LeBron/Rose/LMA/TT/JR Smith and a bench with Danny Green, Shumpert, Gasol, Dejounte Murray and others....they'd still get smoked by the Warriors but they could also still win the East, right?

1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said:

and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags

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Melo for Kyrie straight up makes sense for both teams. Why is Phoenix always in the middle of these things?

1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said:

and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags

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12 minutes ago, HedleyLamarr said:

Supposedly there's some smoke of a 3-team deal involving the Cavs, Knicks, and Phoenix...with the major entities involved being Carmelo and Irving.

In this instance, it looks like Irving would be heading to New York. Eric Bledsoe would be the main piece from Phoenix. I honestly don't watch much NBA, but as a Suns fan, I had to look up this potential deal.

 

Also, there's apparently a lot of buzz about Lebron going to Phoenix because they hired James Jones in the front office.

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Man, what a strange turn of events this whole thing is. It's, like, he finally wins a title for Cleveland and you finally think that the narrative might settle down a bit for once in terms of his career and legacy, then, the last twelve months happen:

 

•Durant signs with the Warriors

 

•Warriors absolutely SMOKE the Cavs in the Finals

 

•The Cavs have one of the most abysmal Knicks-like off seasons I've ever seen

 

•Kyrie wants out

 

I'll say this much, no matter where Lebron finishes in terms of GOAT, he's had probably the second most dramatic career of any super star ever... Second only to Jordan. Damn, he really can't beat Jordan in anything, can he? 

 

 

Also, I (jokingly) called Lebron to the Suns right before he signed back with the Cavs in 2014. It really wouldn't be that much of a change for him, I guess. It's a depressing, miserable city full of bitterly disenfranchised people that is as oppressively hot as Cleveland is oppressively cold. 

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On 11/19/2012 at 7:23 PM, oldschoolvikings said:
She’s still half convinced “Chris Creamer” is a porn site.)
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To what extent does LeBron's Pigpen cloud of roster/coach/pseudo-GM drama mar his legacy as a player? I think a lot of people have tried to write this heroic narrative of The Player wresting control of the team from the rent-seeking parasites of sports ownership, but with the Love/Thompson/Irving situations all being what they are and LeBron trying to trapdoor out of a mess he himself made, maybe it wasn't that heroic. I do not want to take Crumbs Krause's side over Michael Jordan's, but at least Jordan was insulated from making really bad personnel decisions until he formally entered management.

♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫

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7 hours ago, Bucfan56 said:

I'll say this much, no matter where Lebron finishes in terms of GOAT, he's had probably the second most dramatic career of any super star ever... Second only to Jordan. Damn, he really can't beat Jordan in anything, can he?

 

If you start with LeBron's departure to Miami, look at all the dominoes that have fallen in counter moves and the names that have changed teams.  I would guess that the number of All-Star Game appearances between LeBron and all these other players is north of 150.

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I think it's a little weird that we're handwaving away a guy making the Finals 7 years in a row. No one has done that since the Celtics clowned an 8-team league in the 50s and 60s. Yes, James is 3-4 over that time period, but he also led those teams to those championship opportunities. And in those Finals, he really only blew 2011 against the Mavs; the 2014 Heat team was out of gas, the 2015 Cavs lost their second and third best players, and the 2017 Cavs played an actual All-NBA team.

 

James' most immediate comp is Michael Jordan, obviously, but there are some important differences between the two.

 

The salary structure is completely different; max contracts didn't exist, players went to big markets as a matter of course and Scottie Pippen didn't make any real money until he signed with the Houston Rockets. And while the Jazz, Sonics, Lakers and Blazers were very good teams, they were all a class below the 2007/14 Spurs and the latest Warriors dynasty (which is probably up there with the Celtics and Bulls as greatest runs in NBA history). Jordan also took off two years to play baseball, and we also all pretend he didn't get smoked in the 1995 playoffs by the Magic.

 

James joined a much smarter league, did more with less, and by the time he could regularly lead teams to the Finals, everything changed. Especially with the Warriors and a drastic league-wide emphasis on 3 and D. The old ways don't work, and while LeBron remains essentially the perfect basketball player, he's hasn't had anything resembling Heat-like talent since joining the Cavs.

 

If the critique is that James angled for bad contracts for Thompson, JR and Shumpert, those guys still won an NBA Finals in 2016. It sucks that they all fell off in the 2017 Finals, but it's not like they're a bunch of bums. D-Will and Kyle Korver were excellent until the Finals. Everyone not named LeBron essentially dissolved; the -7 in 2 minutes of LeBron rest in game 4 continues to speak volumes.

 

If the critique is that the Cavs can't develop talent the way the Warriors do because LeBron is on the team, that's fair. They need to learn to be as active and as smart as the Warriors are in the second round.

 

In any event, perhaps in a world where Dan Gilbert doesn't fire David Griffin, they are actually able to move Love for George and then this entire dynamic is different. Who knows. We might still see a Cavs starting 5 of James/Melo/Thompson/Love/Some PG after all. Obviously James and Melo would be better with Irving than not, but it's not bad for second choice. 

 

1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said:

and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags

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Worth a read: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20125888/kyrie-irving-trade-request-shows-learned-lebron

 

Quote

For rescuing his career from the depths of the draft lottery and delivering him into the championship chase, Kyrie Irving will be forever grateful to LeBron James. Together they made history in Cleveland. Titles are forever with the game's greatest player, but history shows that partnerships end up temporary arrangements.

 

As much as anything, James has taught everyone -- including Irving -- that the best players on the planet can influence, shape and even control their fates and futures. James is responsible for the empowerment of the modern basketball superstar, which speaks to an important lesson that's resonating with Irving himself: Dictate terms before they're dictated to you.

 

Irving has watched the way James has leveraged the Cavaliers for commissions on the contracts of his agency's clients, watched the way James' signing of short-term player contracts has bent the will of an organization. James inspires a perpetual state of unrest and uncertainty, and everyone -- ownership and management, coaches and players -- is left scrambling to satisfy him. This strategy has been profitable in important ways, including winning at the highest level.

 

In so many ways, James has created the template for modern free agency, deal-making and profit-taking. From Cleveland to Miami and back again, James has taught an NBA generation to share the ball, the wealth and, maybe most of all, the ownership of self in a billion-dollar industry.

 

This is why Irving's declaration of independence isn't a betrayal of LeBron James but an honoring of him. James isn't committed to the Cavaliers' future, and now neither is Irving. James has educated his starry peers: Never lose your leverage. And now Irving gathers his on the way to the door.

 

1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said:

and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags

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21 hours ago, kimball said:

 

What kind of legacy or relationship would LeBron expect with Cleveland if he left again?

Well, it's like that hot girlfriend that was awesome at sex.  You loved her, then you hated her because she wanted to be with someone else, then she came back to you and gave you great sex and enough money to last you forever, only to see her want somebody else again.

 

Yeah, sure, LeBron promised he'd win the city a championship they haven't had in so long, and he came through.  That championship flag flies forever.  But a lot of what he said in that Sports Illustrated article about his return to Cleveland, finishing his career there, helping out the young and inexperienced team with the new coach, etc. will be all crap.  He told Gilbert he wasn't coming back unless he was going to spend in the luxury tax and make certain moves to bring in top talent right away (going against his "having patience" mantra).  He told the GM/owner to fire the white Jewish coach because Blatt wasn't interested in being LeBron's bitch.  And now LeBron is basically telling the Cleveland fans "Enjoy me while you can, because I'll be gone after this season!".

 

The LeBron Fellators will do/say whatever and justify it with some lame-ass excuse, but he'll have torn out the sports-hearts of his home town twice because he didn't get 100% to go his way.  What a prima donna.  Some guys will stick with a woman that continually breaks his heart because she gave him the highest-of-highs and looks great in a cocktail dress, but at some point, he'll have to cut bait and realize that if he wants to be happy for the rest of his life, he may need himself an ugly wife.

14 hours ago, the admiral said:

To what extent does LeBron's Pigpen cloud of roster/coach/pseudo-GM drama mar his legacy as a player? I think a lot of people have tried to write this heroic narrative of The Player wresting control of the team from the rent-seeking parasites of sports ownership, but with the Love/Thompson/Irving situations all being what they are and LeBron trying to trapdoor out of a mess he himself made, maybe it wasn't that heroic. I do not want to take Crumbs Krause's side over Michael Jordan's, but at least Jordan was insulated from making really bad personnel decisions until he formally entered management.

It should say volumes that each time LeBron has been a real UFA (especially in the prime of his career, that he's moved to another locale and seems pretty set on picking a new team next offseason.  You just don't see one of the top 5 GOAT in that sport's history keep moving around each time he hits free agency.  There's something just off about that.

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25 minutes ago, HedleyLamarr said:

Well, it's like that hot girlfriend that was awesome at sex.  You loved her, then you hated her because she wanted to be with someone else, then she came back to you and gave you great sex and enough money to last you forever, only to see her want somebody else again.

 

Yeah, sure, LeBron promised he'd win the city a championship they haven't had in so long, and he came through.  That championship flag flies forever.  But a lot of what he said in that Sports Illustrated article about his return to Cleveland, finishing his career there, helping out the young and inexperienced team with the new coach, etc. will be all crap.  He told Gilbert he wasn't coming back unless he was going to spend in the luxury tax and make certain moves to bring in top talent right away (going against his "having patience" mantra).  He told the GM/owner to fire the white Jewish coach because Blatt wasn't interested in being LeBron's bitch.  And now LeBron is basically telling the Cleveland fans "Enjoy me while you can, because I'll be gone after this season!".

 

The LeBron Fellators will do/say whatever and justify it with some lame-ass excuse, but he'll have torn out the sports-hearts of his home town twice because he didn't get 100% to go his way.  What a prima donna.  Some guys will stick with a woman that continually breaks his heart because she gave him the highest-of-highs and looks great in a cocktail dress, but at some point, he'll have to cut bait and realize that if he wants to be happy for the rest of his life, he may need himself an ugly wife.

It should say volumes that each time LeBron has been a real UFA, that he's moved to another locale and seems pretty set on picking a new team next offseason, especially in the prime of his career.

 

GOLD.

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