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Seattle NHL Brand Discussion

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On 12/29/2019 at 2:16 AM, Ice_Cap said:

Vancouver's had that identity locked down for an entire generation. I don't know what else to tell you ūü§∑‚Äć‚ôāÔłŹ

With all due respect, Ice, I think that Seattle could absolutely still go in the Native art direction and make it work; it all depends on how it's executed. An identity theme shouldn't necessarily be off limits because another team uses it if you can make that theme suitably distinct from said other team to avoid brand confusion; and personally, a sockeye salmon and an orca don't look similar enough for me to imagine anybody'd confuse them.

 

And I mean, the Predators used a cat identity when the Panthers had that identity locked down for an entire decade, and nobody was saying that¬†that was stepping on toes. ūüėõ¬†

 

On 12/29/2019 at 7:53 AM, dont care said:

The point is don’t take design elements that are unique to your closest geographical rival. 

Except using Native design elements for a logo isn't unique to the Canucks. Hell, it never was, because the Coyotes had been in the league for a year, using the Kachinas, which were very much influenced by Native design elements across all elements of the identity, by the time the Canucks debuted the Orca logo.

 

And since the Coyotes are so heavily promoting the Kachina and still in the Pacific Division (for now, at least), it's not even unique in-division for Vancouver to have a Native-themed logo.

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3 minutes ago, DastardlyRidleylash said:

With all due respect, Ice, I think that Seattle could absolutely still go in the Native art direction and make it work; it all depends on how it's executed. An identity theme shouldn't necessarily be off limits because another team uses it if you can make that theme suitably distinct from said other team to avoid brand confusion; and personally, a sockeye salmon and an orca don't look similar enough for me to imagine anybody'd confuse them.

 

And I mean, the Predators used a cat identity when the Panthers had that identity locked down for an entire decade, and nobody was saying that¬†that was stepping on toes. ūüėõ¬†

 

Except using Native design elements for a logo isn't unique to the Canucks. Hell, it never was, because the Coyotes had been in the league for a year, using the Kachinas, which were very much influenced by Native design elements across all elements of the identity, by the time the Canucks debuted the Orca logo.

 

And since the Coyotes are so heavily promoting the Kachina and still in the Pacific Division (for now, at least), it's not even unique in-division for Vancouver to have a Native-themed logo.


To be fair, ‚Äúnative design‚ÄĚ isn‚Äôt an umbrella style that encompasses everything associated with all indigenous cultures. Each of those cultures¬†were/are unique nations and lumping them together takes away their individuality. Even¬†cultures within the same region have very distinct artistic¬†traditions, so I don‚Äôt think you can say Hopi art and whichever¬†northwest culture Vancouver‚Äôs logo is purportedly emulating are an overlap of styles.

 

The other part of your point is valid, though. There are a half-dozen or more teams (including hockey teams) dipping into those styles in the Pacific Northwest, so I don’t think the Canucks can truly claim ownership within their industry. Honestly, the prevalence of those styles are probably both a pro and a con for any new team breaking into the market. It’s a roadblock to standing out amongst your competition, but on the same token, the opportunity is always there to be the team who does it best. It’s just a longer, more difficult road.

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24 minutes ago, andrewharrington said:

To be fair, ‚Äúnative design‚ÄĚ isn‚Äôt an umbrella style that encompasses everything associated with all indigenous cultures. Each of those cultures¬†were/are unique nations and lumping them together takes away their individuality. Even¬†cultures within the same region have very distinct artistic¬†traditions, so I don‚Äôt think you can say Hopi art and whichever¬†northwest culture Vancouver‚Äôs logo is purportedly emulating are an overlap of styles.

My general point was the idea of using Native art for the logo of a NHL franchise was never the Canucks' unique shtick, even when it debuted; which is why Seattle doing it shouldn't be considered a bad idea because it's not really a specifically Vancouver thing in the NHL and never has been.

 

Obviously Vancouver isn't a overlap of¬†style¬†with Arizona, that'd be fairly ridiculous of me to claim considering the distance between the two locations and the differences between their Native populations. ūüėõ¬†But the concept of using Native artwork for the primary logo isn't "Vancouver's thing" if other teams from the exact same time period were using that same idea, and that's the claim I had issue with; they cannot claim to own something that is itself derivative.

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I think Seattle going with a native art inspired design wouldn't conflict with Vancouver, as I always imagine the Canucks as more of a modern 70's design aesthetic than anything else.

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Can we just get a leak already? I’m so tired on waiting on this. Most drawn out branding decision in... ever?

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2 hours ago, schlim said:

I think Seattle going with a native art inspired design wouldn't conflict with Vancouver, as I always imagine the Canucks as more of a modern 70's design aesthetic than anything else.

 

This was kind of my thinking, though I wan't thinking about "a modern 70's design aesthetic".

 

I know the Canucks logo is inspired by Native art, but it's really only in the face of the orca. Nothing else really about the logo or their identity, in my opinion, screams Native art.

 

2920842020.gif

 

Compare that to the Vancouver Grizzlies.

 

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vancouverbasketballgrizzlies.jpg?quality

 

and the Thunderbirds.

 

wm7vc9zjjbrl15ups3vgjlhth.gif

 

Both those teams scream Native art inspiration way more than the Canucks do. Seattle can lean more into the Native art, if they want, and it wouldn't really conflict with the Canucks.

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41 minutes ago, monkeypower said:

 

This was kind of my thinking, though I wan't thinking about "a modern 70's design aesthetic".

 

I know the Canucks logo is inspired by Native art, but it's really only in the face of the orca. Nothing else really about the logo or their identity, in my opinion, screams Native art.

 

2920842020.gif

 

Compare that to the Vancouver Grizzlies.

 

r3htbw6ghslnszfkusgr6wvq6.gif

 

vancouverbasketballgrizzlies.jpg?quality

 

and the Thunderbirds.

 

wm7vc9zjjbrl15ups3vgjlhth.gif

 

Both those teams scream Native art inspiration way more than the Canucks do. Seattle can lean more into the Native art, if they want, and it wouldn't really conflict with the Canucks.

110% nailed it.

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4 hours ago, DastardlyRidleylash said:

With all due respect, Ice, I think that Seattle could absolutely still go in the Native art direction and make it work; it all depends on how it's executed. An identity theme shouldn't necessarily be off limits because another team uses it if you can make that theme suitably distinct from said other team to avoid brand confusion; and personally, a sockeye salmon and an orca don't look similar enough for me to imagine anybody'd confuse them.

The fact is the cultures of the Pacific Northwest and Southwest are not "the same."
With the Seattle team there's already team right next door that uses Pacific Northwest Native art with their logo. I don't give a crap what the Canucks "should" wear as their logo, I'm talking about what they do wear. And they have a logo in the style of art many here want the Seattle team to adopt. Which is especially silly when you consider that they're trying to set up the Canucks as their "natural" rival (one of the options on their logo survey was "anything that eats Canucks").

Now considering the Canucks have used this logo continuously since 1998? I think they very much do have a claim to Northwest Native art in the NHL. And it would be silly for a Seattle NHL team to both try and do the same thing (with a thematically similar logo concept, a sea creature). It would be like if that second GTA team everyone always wants finally happened, and they used a maple leaf as their logo while also trying to set themselves up as the Leafs' rival. Wouldn't work at all.

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I will be surprised if we don't know the team name by the start of the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

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I believe we're suppose to be getting the name right around the All Star Game.

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On 12/31/2019 at 2:47 PM, Ice_Cap said:

The fact is the cultures of the Pacific Northwest and Southwest are not "the same."
With the Seattle team there's already team right next door that uses Pacific Northwest Native art with their logo. I don't give a crap what the Canucks "should" wear as their logo, I'm talking about what they do wear.

Arguably one of the most heated rivalries in American sports is the Sounders/Timbers. Sounders came to the MLS first and unveiled primarily green uniforms even though the Timbers had worn green for decades in other leagues. A few years later when the Timbers came to the MLS, they didn't shy away from using green because it had been their identity too. I don't think anyone thought the Timbers should've not used green since their rivals wore it. 

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3 minutes ago, hawk36 said:

Arguably one of the most heated rivalries in American sports is the Sounders/Timbers. Sounders came to the MLS first and unveiled primarily green uniforms even though the Timbers had worn green for decades in other leagues. A few years later when the Timbers came to the MLS, they didn't shy away from using green because it had been their identity too. I don't think anyone thought the Timbers should've not used green since their rivals wore it. 

The Sounders don't use a logo that uses an axe though.

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1 minute ago, Ice_Cap said:

The Sounders don't use a logo that uses an axe though.

Right but I don't see the Seattle NHL team with a whale logo either. Just saying you shouldn't eliminate a style that's been synonymous with hockey in the region just because a rival uses a similar style. Not saying they should use it or will use it, but just saying to automatically eliminate it wouldn't be prudent. 

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Who cares if the prospective logo uses a native art theme? It's not going to be the same logo. Jeez, relax.

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On 12/31/2019 at 2:57 PM, monkeypower said:

 

This was kind of my thinking, though I wan't thinking about "a modern 70's design aesthetic".

 

I know the Canucks logo is inspired by Native art, but it's really only in the face of the orca. Nothing else really about the logo or their identity, in my opinion, screams Native art.

 

2920842020.gif

 

Compare that to the Vancouver Grizzlies.

 

r3htbw6ghslnszfkusgr6wvq6.gif

 

vancouverbasketballgrizzlies.jpg?quality

 

and the Thunderbirds.

 

wm7vc9zjjbrl15ups3vgjlhth.gif

 

Both those teams scream Native art inspiration way more than the Canucks do. Seattle can lean more into the Native art, if they want, and it wouldn't really conflict with the Canucks.

What about Seahawks’s logo?

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With trepidation about this potentially becoming bogged down in another fruitless Orca argument, the native elements are barely there. The face and fin are the only parts of it that have that Coast Salish/Haida style, and even then its heavily stylized (which is necessary, because while I appreciate the intricacies of the traditional design, it doesn't lend itself well to a sports logo, which is better suited by simpler, more direct designs). Not to mention, two teams from the same region using a regional art style isn't the end of the world. The Canucks are one of three Canadian teams to have a 'C' as a logo and I don't hear much complaining about it stepping on the toes of other teams in that regard. If anything, I think Seattle should lean more heavily into the native art style, and really own it.

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18 hours ago, hawk36 said:

Arguably one of the most heated rivalries in American sports is the Sounders/Timbers. 

Hahahahahahahahaha.

 

Seriously - nothing in MLS is among the most heated of anything in American Sports. In no particular order, there would be rivalries from NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, NCAA Football, NCAA Basketball before you would get to MLS or any league not listed above.

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i think a scheme that is reminiscent of the Wild's previous red-heavy look, with green and maybe black or grey trim would be a decent look, especially for Sockeyes, but even regardless of name.

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1 hour ago, Sec19Row53 said:

Hahahahahahahahaha.

 

Seriously - nothing in MLS is among the most heated of anything in American Sports. In no particular order, there would be rivalries from NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, NCAA Football, NCAA Basketball before you would get to MLS or any league not listed above.

 

Just because it's new or soccer doesn't mean it's not heated...

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