Seattle NHL Brand Discussion

[TaylorMade]

10 minutes ago, Chromatic said:

There isn't really anything inherently 'Indigenous' about Sockeye. Yes, salmon played an important role in traditional PNW Native society, but you could make that argument for Evergreens, Sealions, Cougars, etc.

 

Sockeye salmon are indigenous to the northern Pacific Ocean, including the coasts of Washington State.

[Chromatic]

1 minute ago, TaylorMade said:

 

Sockeye salmon are indigenous to the northern Pacific Ocean, including the coasts of Washington State.

When using the term 'Indigenous' we're referring to the culture of the Aboriginal tribes who inhabit there like the Coast Salish, Haida, etc. Not the fish itself.

[spartacat_12]

2 hours ago, KJTALBOT said:

It seems like people are ready to hate any name choice. 

 

Just wait for the full package including logos and uniforms. 

 

It's tough because just about every rumoured name has something people can nitpick about. Kraken has it's obvious detractors. Sockeyes could be too similar to the Sharks & Canucks (especially if they go with a native design). For Evergreens we already have the Wild in green with trees in their logo. Colorado already uses mountain imagery, so that conflicts with Rainiers. A Florida panther is actually a cougar. Sea Lions isn't bad in a vacuum, but the market already has the Seahawks & Seawolves, plus their main predators are orcas and sharks.

[Ridleylash]

9 minutes ago, Chromatic said:

When using the term 'Indigenous' we're referring to the culture of the Aboriginal tribes who inhabit there like the Coast Salish, Haida, etc. Not the fish itself.

To be fair, sockeye salmon do have a place in Coast Salish culture; they represent life, prosperity, renewal, nourishment and abundance. Those sound like pretty great things to tie into your hockey team; prosperity for success on the ice, renewal for contention for the Cup and abundance for possible Cup championships.

 

"Kraken" may sound cooler, but I'd rather a name with more deep meaning then just "it sounds epic and cool".

[Chromatic]

1 minute ago, Ridleylash said:

To be fair, sockeyes do have a place in Coast Salish culture; they represent life, prosperity, renewal, nourishment and abundance. Those sound like pretty great things to tie into your hockey team; prosperity for success on the ice, renewal for contention for the Cup and abundance for possible Cup championships.

 

"Kraken" may sound cooler, but I'd rather a name with more deep meaning then just "it sounds epic and cool".

I'm aware, I'm just saying I wouldn't separate Sockeyes into an 'Indigenous' category for theming based on that because the same could be argued for a bunch of potential Seattle names. 

[Sec19Row53]

By the way, are yall pulling 'Release the Kraken' from Clash of the Titans, or the Pirates of the Caribbean series?

 

When are the Raptors changing their obviously dated nickname?

[M4One]

17 minutes ago, Sec19Row53 said:

By the way, are yall pulling 'Release the Kraken' from Clash of the Titans, or the Pirates of the Caribbean series?

 

When are the Raptors changing their obviously dated nickname?

 

Clash of Titans. 

 

Raptors just won the chip.  That ship has sailed.  I don't know if it was legit or just people here suggesting for it to happen, but during the rebrand, a name change was considered.

[Ridleylash]

"Toronto Raptors" is hardly on the same level as "Seattle Kraken", since at least Canada has dromaeosaurs to it's name; and since the Raptors have been marketing themselves as less "Toronto" and more "Canada's NBA team" after the Grizzlies died, it works. In terms of tryhard edge, it's basically the same thing as Panthers or Sharks, honestly. Plus, you know, it's a plural.

 

When's the last time you heard tales of the Scandanavian mythological creature known as the kraken swimming in the waters off of Washington? At best it's a tenuous connection because...I guess a giant Pacific octopus is kinda sorta maybe like what a modern kraken is if you reaaaaaally squint? The problem is that even a giant Pacific octopus is far from big enough to even come close to being a facsimile of a kraken, and especially far from a mythologically-accurate one.

 

Plus, orcas and sharks eat squids. And given part of Seattle's marketing is poking Vancouver, I dunno if choosing a mascot their mascot eats is a good call.

[henburg]

9 hours ago, Ridleylash said:

And a ty dead meme from 2009 isn't "super antiquated sounding"?

 

The end goal of a brand is ideally longevity, not capitalizing on an Internet meme that died eons ago. Why should you name a professional team for a dead meme with no local connections when you could go for any number of superior alternatives that won't be dating your team horribly from conception, won't sound really bad against any other team in the league and doesn't come off as roller hockey-level tryhard "kewl"?

 

This is why I despise the name "Kraken"; people defend it not by giving really convincing reasons it'd be the best name, but by pointing to a dead meme and stating that it'd be cool for people to be able to run it 30 million miles further into the goddamn dirt by the time the team's inaugural season opener even comes around.

 

"Release the Kraken is cool!" In 2009, yeah, but it's 2020, it's been like 10 years since "Release the Kraken" was ever a culturally relevant thing and by the time the team's even close to hitting the ice they'd be sporting a dead meme for a name that a fair amount of people dislike due to it sounding amateurish and tryhard-cool and which has very tenuous ties to the city they're actually playing in.

 

I don't think most people even remember Clash of the Titans, and that's definitely not what people are pointing to as evidence that it's a good nickname. You could argue that the film along with Pirates of the Caribbean strengthened its place in pop culture, but the historical origin transcends that I think as evidenced by the fact that people still recognize the creature. 

 

9 hours ago, Ridleylash said:

Naming the team "Kraken" would be like naming a team in Phoenix the "Phoenix Polar Bears". Are there some polar bears in Phoenix? Sure, in zoos. But is Phoenix known for polar bears? Not really.

 

Does Seattle have giant cephalopods? Sure. But are they anything close to a "kraken"? No, not really, especially since the mythological Kraken isn't ever really described as a cephalopod, more like an enormous whale or fish; which means the Sharks or Canucks, two division rivals, would then have more mythologically-accurate logos then the actual Kraken team.

 

I'm really not following your logic here, those two aren't really comparable situations at all. More apt comparisons would be naming a new team the Seattle Dragons, the New Mexico Aliens, or the Oklahoma Thunderbirds because all of those nicknames still have some connections to the area whereas Polar Bears and Phoenix couldn't be more separate. I think that the presence of Cephalopods and a history of seafarers gives Seattle more than enough of a connection to the potential nickname.

[ColeJ]

I usually think I'm a pretty good barometer for opinions on this site, but I'm so far from the center on this topic.

 

I really think Kraken would be an amazing identity. Sparky has proven it a dozen times over that he could make it work, too.

 

I think y'all are overstating the meme and movie associations. Regardless of which ocean it is better associated, it's still a mythical creature and I feel that makes it fair game for any port.

 

If they end up with something safe and boring and emeralds or evergreens, I'll be disappointed. Sockeyes is cool. Kraken is fun. Totems and Metropolitans both get a pass from me on historical grounds.

 

I just think a giant mythical squid is exactly the kind of thing that could become iconic across every medium of branding.

[Around the Horn]

After seeing @sparky chewbarky's concept, I am all in on Sockeyes...

 

Kraken is just terrible all around.

 

"The Seattle Sockeyes visit Madison Square Garden to take on the New York Rangers" sounds good...

 

"The Seattle Kraken visit Madison Square Garden to take on the New York Rangers" just sounds like amateur hour.

[The_Admiral]

2 hours ago, Ridleylash said:

 a giant Pacific octopus

 

Where is he?

[Wings]

Kraken sound like a candy bar. 

[IceCap]

4 hours ago, henburg said:

I don't think most people even remember Clash of the Titans

It's where the whole "release the kraken!" thing comes from. And you KNOW they'll abuse that clip for years if that ends up being the team name. 

[MEANS]

It might be close to 40 years old but I grew up on that classic movie.

[IceCap]

5 hours ago, Sec19Row53 said:

When are the Raptors changing their obviously dated nickname?

People were pushing for the Raptors to change their name right up until they won the NBA Championship. 

The team itself almost changed their nickname a few years back, and did the next best thing with the "We the North" campaign. That basically pushed the official nickname off to the side to reorient the team's identity around a "northern" culture instead of dinosaurs. 

 

Ironically it was the NBA Championship that made the old corny dinosaur stuff "retro cool" again, bringing the raptor theme back into the limelight a bit.

 

So yeah. Choosing a "cool" and "trendy" nickname has its pitfalls. Will people still resonate with "Kraken" in fifteen years? The Raptors, again, almost pulled the trigger on the Huskies rebrand. 
Not an ideal place for your franchise to potentially be in under two decades.  

[Mingjai]

16 hours ago, Ridleylash said:

When's the last time you heard tales of the Scandanavian mythological creature known as the kraken swimming in the waters off of Washington? At best it's a tenuous connection because...I guess a giant Pacific octopus is kinda sorta maybe like what a modern kraken is if you reaaaaaally squint? The problem is that even a giant Pacific octopus is far from big enough to even come close to being a facsimile of a kraken, and especially far from a mythologically-accurate one.

Giant squid, not octopus. One of the mythological aspects of the kraken is its enormous size, so of course the actual giant squid isn’t going to be big enough. Next thing you’re going to tell me is that an actual snake has far to few heads to be a reasonable facsimile of a mythologically-accurate hydra. 

[Chromatic]

2 hours ago, IceCap said:

People were pushing for the Raptors to change their name right up until they won the NBA Championship. 

The team itself almost changed their nickname a few years back, and did the next best thing with the "We the North" campaign. That basically pushed the official nickname off to the side to reorient the team's identity around a "northern" culture instead of dinosaurs. 

 

Ironically it was the NBA Championship that made the old corny dinosaur stuff "retro cool" again, bringing the raptor theme back into the limelight a bit.

 

So yeah. Choosing a "cool" and "trendy" nickname has its pitfalls. Will people still resonate with "Kraken" in fifteen years? The Raptors, again, almost pulled the trigger on the Huskies rebrand. 
Not an ideal place for your franchise to potentially be in under two decades.  

A name like ‘Raptors’ has a lot of leeway too. You could change the logo to a snowy owl and it would make as much sense.

[IceCap]

1 hour ago, Chromatic said:

A name like ‘Raptors’ has a lot of leeway too. You could change the logo to a snowy owl and it would make as much sense.

See, that plays into it. They downplayed the dinosaur aspect so much with the new logo and the "We the North" campaign that people here were thinking they had done that, or could. The claw marks could be talon marks, etc... The mascot remained a dinosaur, they continued to sell dinosaur throwback merch, the fan gatherings were called "Jurassic Parks," and people were still going "you know they could make it mean 'bird of prey' and it would still work."

The only thing that finally put an end to that was the NBA Championship, when everyone finally went "ok, yeah, they're a dinosaur team, alright."

 

It took winning a championship for the Raptors to finally get people to accept what was a relatively gimmicky name from 1995. That doesn't bode well for a team naming themselves after a meme from 2009. They'll either rename in ten years or rebrand in a way where they're still the Kraken but otherwise just play up the "Seattle Hockey" theme. Winning a title cures all ills, but that can never be assumed to be a given.

 

What I'm getting at here is that it's in their best interests to adopt a name that's got some staying power to it. "Sockeyes" is a bit quirky, but it has a sort of old timey Original Six feeling to it (sort of like "Blue Jackets" does, if we're comparing it against other NHL expansion clubs). Emeralds would be fine, as would Evergreens. Not exciting options, but you don't run the risk of being embarrassed by them in ten years.

 

Of course we should just be calling them the Metros, but the NHL's stupid realignment strikes again.

[Chromatic]

9 hours ago, IceCap said:

See, that plays into it. They downplayed the dinosaur aspect so much with the new logo and the "We the North" campaign that people here were thinking they had done that, or could. The claw marks could be talon marks, etc... The mascot remained a dinosaur, they continued to sell dinosaur throwback merch, the fan gatherings were called "Jurassic Parks," and people were still going "you know they could make it mean 'bird of prey' and it would still work."

The only thing that finally put an end to that was the NBA Championship, when everyone finally went "ok, yeah, they're a dinosaur team, alright."

 

It took winning a championship for the Raptors to finally get people to accept what was a relatively gimmicky name from 1995. That doesn't bode well for a team naming themselves after a meme from 2009. They'll either rename in ten years or rebrand in a way where they're still the Kraken but otherwise just play up the "Seattle Hockey" theme. Winning a title cures all ills, but that can never be assumed to be a given.

 

What I'm getting at here is that it's in their best interests to adopt a name that's got some staying power to it. "Sockeyes" is a bit quirky, but it has a sort of old timey Original Six feeling to it (sort of like "Blue Jackets" does, if we're comparing it against other NHL expansion clubs). Emeralds would be fine, as would Evergreens. Not exciting options, but you don't run the risk of being embarrassed by them in ten years.

 

Of course we should just be calling them the Metros, but the NHL's stupid realignment strikes again.

I agree with everything except the Metros part. It sounds extremely awkward and dated and doesn’t really fit a city that prides itself on being outdoorsy. Not to mention we need to stop with new franchises larping as the return of teams from a century ago *cough* Ottawa *cough*.