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Seattle NHL Brand Discussion

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11 hours ago, Chromatic said:

I guess this is just a fundamental difference in perspective. To me, naming a team in Detroit the Tigers is significantly more absurd than a team in Seattle the Kraken. There are no wild tigers wandering around Detroit. Myths are fluid, and shaped over time as you've pointed out. You can take heavy leeway and direct them however you want, and the Kraken idea befits a nautical city like Seattle. 

Fair enough but to me, someone living in Seattle for 20+ years, I'd prefer a name that is more connected to the region. It would make me feel like they put more effort into being a part of the community. It's my problem with the XFL Seattle Dragons... cool, mean mascot but Seattle has never been known for its myths about dragons. Just seems like pure laziness. 

 

For instance when the Seattle MLS team was to be the Alliance people were happy to have an MLS team, but when they smartly decided to be the Sounders instead, the fan base exploded. Our name, our team. Goes a long way. 

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11 hours ago, Chromatic said:

You can't make it a good use of the name because its not a good name to use. Irrespective of where it comes from, the current idea of the Kraken in our culture is of a big cephalopod that eats ships, whether its pure or original or not, thats the current "myth". The Seattle hockey club would be working from that premise. 

 

The real misfortune here is that all the people clamouring for the name "Kraken" because its sick as hell bro are the same ones who will be laughing at it 10 years down the road.

Well to be honest that's how the name Penguins was looked at when they first announced the Team Name. The Original Owners wife thought the Civic Arena looked like an igloo and thought winter / igloo / PENGUINS. The Questions and Opinions started to come out: why a Penguins, Penguins are not fierce, what does a Penguin have to do with Pittsburgh, Penguins don't live in igloos, etc etc etc.
Pittsburgh has a long History of Hockey: Pirates (NHL / 1925 - 1930). Yellow Jackets (USAHA / 1920 - 1925), Shamrocks (IHL / 1933 - 1936), Hornets (AHL / Red Wings Farm Team / 1936 - 1967) yet PENGUINS is what they chose to name the NHL Hockey Team

Now, the Penguins name is Beloved here. I was born in '73 and that's all I have ever known them to be

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1 hour ago, Fitzy0220 said:

Well to be honest that's how the name Penguins was looked at when they first announced the Team Name. The Original Owners wife thought the Civic Arena looked like an igloo and thought winter / igloo / PENGUINS. The Questions and Opinions started to come out: why a Penguins, Penguins are not fierce, what does a Penguin have to do with Pittsburgh, Penguins don't live in igloos, etc etc etc.
Pittsburgh has a long History of Hockey: Pirates (NHL / 1925 - 1930). Yellow Jackets (USAHA / 1920 - 1925), Shamrocks (IHL / 1933 - 1936), Hornets (AHL / Red Wings Farm Team / 1936 - 1967) yet PENGUINS is what they chose to name the NHL Hockey Team

Now, the Penguins name is Beloved here. I was born in '73 and that's all I have ever known them to be

I don’t think ‘Penguins’ sounded like a forced and dated meme when the selection came around.

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2 hours ago, hawk36 said:

Fair enough but to me, someone living in Seattle for 20+ years, I'd prefer a name that is more connected to the region. It would make me feel like they put more effort into being a part of the community.

 

For instance when the Seattle MLS team was to be the Alliance people were happy to have an MLS team, but when they smartly decided to be the Sounders instead, the fan base exploded. Our name, our team. Goes a long way. 

Exactly; "Kraken" is serviceable, but it doesn't make a statement of "This is SEATTLE'S team" quite the way a name like "Sockeyes" does, and that's a problem I can see a lot of people having in the area (though I'm on pretty much the opposite side of the continent from Seattle, admittedly, so maybe I'm just a clueless canuck 😛). A modern professional sports brand should, ideally for me, focus on and reflect the culture of the location they play in, since that allows you to resonate more with the people you're literally selling your product to; if the locals are immediately fond of your brand, it lets merchandise sales boom even more then they might otherwise have in the region.

 

A successful sports team brand should generally be aimed to become a piece of the fabric of the city's identity; and, most importantly, to appeal to that city's culture. Seattle doesn't have dragons or krakens or other such beasts in their culture, but they do have sockeye salmon, evergreen trees and sea lions; so ideally I'd choose one of those types of names if I'm trying to appeal to the Seattle market. I mean, maybe people in New York think "Seattle Kraken" is a really cool name...but if people in Seattle find that name really, really dumb, I have then objectively failed at my brand's goal; appealing to the market I'm occupying. The team's in Seattle, not New York, after all.

 

The Seahawks are the nickname of a local bird, the Sounders are pretty obvious, the Pilots and Mariners are obviously tied to Seattle's prominent waterfront, and the Supersonics had ties to Seattle's prominence in the aviation industry. The Kraken...sounds cool? And I guess there's large cephalopods off the city's coast? The name doesn't feel like a Seattle team; not just because it doesn't have an "S" in it, but because it really doesn't have much relevance to Seattle's culture and history.

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Is there some movement of Seattleites clamoring for the team to be named Sockeyes that I'm unaware of? I feel like this board gets so fixated on the name being hyper-localized without considering if it's even good. Obviously local significance is important, but there's a balance you should maintain before overthinking it and becoming too niche/trying too hard. That's my problem with Sockeyes and Evergreens, they're just bad nicknames that feel like they're prioritizing a literal representation of Seattle over being a good mascot for a hockey team.

 

Kraken definitely has enough of a local connection to suit Seattle, probably more locally-appropriate than half of the team names in the NHL. 

 

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So far if the Sockeyes gets picked, I can deal with it. But I cant see the likes of the Kraken, Emeralds, or the Evergreens.

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9 hours ago, DiePerske said:

I’d imagine that fabulous in this case refers to being from a fable and not the commonly used definition. 

nope, too late I already imagined glitter and spirit tentacles. 

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8 hours ago, henburg said:

Kraken definitely has enough of a local connection to suit Seattle, probably more locally-appropriate than half of the team names in the NHL. 

[citation needed]

 

EDIT- Let's look at it.

 

Locally Appropriate NHL Team Names

Anaheim Ducks- Tricky since they lost the Disney connection, but the team was still named after a Disney franchise, a company headquartered in Anaheim.

 

Arizona Coyotes- Local wildlife reference.

 

Calgary Flames- Began as a locally appropriate name in Atlanta to reference the city burning during the US Civil War, still works as a local name in Calgary, referencing Alberta's energy sector.

 

Carolina Hurricanes- The Carolinas get a lot of hurricanes.

 

Chicago Blackhawks- Named after a Native military leader from the region.

 

Colorado Avalanche- They play in Denver, a mountainous city. In Colorado, a mountainous state. Avalanches happen on mountains.

 

Columbus Blue Jackets- Named after the blue jackets worn by Union Civil War soldiers, which were manufactured in large part in Ohio.

 

Dallas Stars- Sort of a repeat of the Flames situation. The name fit in Minnesota when they were the North Stars. "Stars" works just as well in Dallas, as Texas is the Lone Star State.

 

Edmonton Oilers- Another reference to Alberta's energy sector.

 

Florida Panthers- Local wildlife reference.

 

Minnesota Wild- Playing off of the idealized wilderness of Minnesota.

 

Montreal Canadiens- The team was founded to be a team for French Canada, and they named themselves after the French version of the name "Canadians."

 

Nashville Predators- Named after a local fossil.

 

New Jersey Devils- Named after a local myth.

 

New York Islanders- They play on Long Island in New York State so... 🤷‍♂️

 

Ottawa Senators- Named after the Canadian Senate, which is located in Canada's capital of Ottawa.

 

San Jose Sharks- Named after local wildlife in the San Francisco Bay.

 

St. Louis Blues- References the local music traditions of the city of St. Louis.

 

Tampa Bay Lighting- Tampa Bay is known as the "Lightning Capital of North America."

 

Toronto Maple Leafs- Renamed from St. Pats to Maple Leafs by Conn Smythe, who wanted to emphasize the team as the team for English Canada's cultural capital. 

 

Vancouver Canucks- Borderline, as "Canuck" is a general slang term for "Canadian," but the team's use for both the lumberjack version of Johnny Canuck and the orca whale in Pacific Northwest Native styling do a lot to tie it to the region.

 

Washington Capitals- Named after Washington DC, the capital of the United States.

 

Winnipeg Jets- They use a Royal Canadian Airforce roundel as the basis for their logo, and there is a prominent RCAF base in the city.

 

Generic NHL Team Names

Boston Bruins

 

Buffalo Sabres

 

Detroit Red Wings- The Winged Wheel could be an automotive industry reference, but it's not explicitly so. Also, the name and logo were actually taken to reference the Montreal AAA Winged Wheelers, the first team to ever win the Stanley Cup.

 

Los Angeles Kings

 

New York Rangers

 

Philadelphia Flyers

 

Pittsburgh Penguins

 

Vegas Golden Knights

 

So that's 23/31 with a local tie-in, 8/31 with generic names.

So no, a Seattle team named after a mythical creature from the North Atlantic isn't more locally appropriate than "half of the teams in the NHL" 😛

Edited by IceCap

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I prefer Sockeyes to Kraken, but my favorite pick, the Pilots, seems to be DOA, which is lame. 

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The thing about Kraken is it's unusual. And unusual names that initially sound wrong actually often can become iconic names. Seattle Sockeyes sounds nice, but it's almost too safe and orthodox. Seattle Kraken is odd at first, but I think it could become the basis on which something pretty unique and distinctive gets created on.

 

That being said, I still like Sockeyes. It's such a perfect hockey team name but I can see it being Kraken. I'm not hating it as much as some, or as much as I thought I would when I first heard it.

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3 hours ago, Bayne said:

The thing about Kraken is it's unusual. And unusual names that initially sound wrong actually often can become iconic names. Seattle Sockeyes sounds nice, but it's almost too safe and orthodox. Seattle Kraken is odd at first, but I think it could become the basis on which something pretty unique and distinctive gets created on.

Or, conversely, unusual names become the subject of intense ridicule and leave a brand as the butt of jokes, especially if (as often happens with expansion teams in a league) the actual team isn't very good. If locals associate "Seattle Kraken" with "complete mediocrity" or "absolutely terrible", not even the most epic of epic identities can overpower that perception of the team.

 

The Toronto Raptors were an unusual brand when they first rolled around; sure, they sold well at first...but eventually, that name was so "iconic" that it was basically a stone's throw to getting completely dumped in favor of a name of a team that had all of one NBA season; because, shock, fans didn't attach themselves very much to the team's brand when they were mediocrity incarnate for most of their existence, and the name was only saved 100% when they won an NBA Championship.

 

And then meanwhile, the Maple Leafs could've been absolutely miserable for another 50+ years and you'd still get people shilling out the cash to watch them because the brand is much more locally-relevant, since Toronto is a cultural hub for English Canada. Blue is Toronto's traditional sports color, the leaf is a Canadian symbol, etc.

 

Would having a name that nobody in the market you're actively going to be trying to capture cares much for, and then potentially having everybody rip the team apart for "Kraken under pressure" if they end up underperforming reaaaally be worth the initial small bump in merchandise sales in the long run? It's not really worth it to brand for the short-term merch boost every new franchise gets just by the virtue of being a new franchise. 

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17 hours ago, hawk36 said:

Fair enough but to me, someone living in Seattle for 20+ years, I'd prefer a name that is more connected to the region. It would make me feel like they put more effort into being a part of the community. It's my problem with the XFL Seattle Dragons... cool, mean mascot but Seattle has never been known for its myths about dragons. Just seems like pure laziness. 

 

For instance when the Seattle MLS team was to be the Alliance people were happy to have an MLS team, but when they smartly decided to be the Sounders instead, the fan base exploded. Our name, our team. Goes a long way. 

 

Isn't there sort of folklore about Dragons in the Washington wilderness. I know Pete's Dragon is set there? Plus it kiiiinda ties into a sea monster theme. But I get your point.

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8 minutes ago, tigerslionspistonshabs said:

 

Isn't there sort of folklore about Dragons in the Washington wilderness. I know Pete's Dragon is set there? Plus it kiiiinda ties into a sea monster theme. But I get your point.

 

Not to mention Wizards of the Coast (publishers of Dungeons & Dragons) is based in Renton, WA.

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Hello fellow Seattle NHL Brand Discussion contributors and lurkers...

The Seattle NHL team identity thing has fascinated me because of the many options, and also because of the variety of the themes.

...And yet with so many, there isn't a runaway, clear-cut favourite (yet).

Anyone interested in creating a name/theme ranking system? I'm thinking we collectively come up with a number of categories to rank our fave names.

Categories like...Local Market Relevance...Marketing/Merchandise Potential...Sound (How does it flow with "Seattle")...Global Marketing and Recognition...etc.

Maybe someone who actually works in the business could help us along with category suggestions.

Then, once we have our categories, we each rank our 5 faves in each cat, assign points 1-5, and see what we have.

Anyone interested?...Might be a fun experiment.

 

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5 hours ago, Bayne said:

The thing about Kraken is it's unusual. And unusual names that initially sound wrong actually often can become iconic names.

 

Hey we found the one guy who would have liked Rocky Mountain Xtreme. 

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41 minutes ago, sparky chewbarky said:

Hello fellow Seattle NHL Brand Discussion contributors and lurkers...

The Seattle NHL team identity thing has fascinated me because of the many options, and also because of the variety of the themes.

...And yet with so many, there isn't a runaway, clear-cut favourite (yet).

Anyone interested in creating a name/theme ranking system? I'm thinking we collectively come up with a number of categories to rank our fave names.

Categories like...Local Market Relevance...Marketing/Merchandise Potential...Sound (How does it flow with "Seattle")...Global Marketing and Recognition...etc.

Maybe someone who actually works in the business could help us along with category suggestions.

Then, once we have our categories, we each rank our 5 faves in each cat, assign points 1-5, and see what we have.

Anyone interested?...Might be a fun experiment.

 

 

 

Sound is a good one, to think about how the name works with fan chants in arena, etc. 

 

"Go Kraken Go" or "Let's Go Kraken" seems like a mouth full? 

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24 minutes ago, Corvus said:

Sound is a good one, to think about how the name works with fan chants in arena, etc. 

 

"Go Kraken Go" or "Let's Go Kraken" seems like a mouth full? 

 

It should be "Let's Go Kra-ken *clap, clap, clapclapclap*", because Kraken is a two syllable word.

 

"Go (name) Go" works better for single syllable names, while "Let's Go (name)" is better for two syllable names.

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24 minutes ago, Corvus said:

Sound is a good one, to think about how the name works with fan chants in arena, etc. 

 

"Go Kraken Go" or "Let's Go Kraken" seems like a mouth full? 

Yeah, "Let's Go Sockeyes!" or "Go 'Greens Go!" would sound way more natural.

 

"Let's Go Sock-Eyes!" would flow more smoothly then "Let's Go Kra-Ken!", at least to me.

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23 minutes ago, Corvus said:

 

 

Sound is a good one, to think about how the name works with fan chants in arena, etc. 

 

"Go Kraken Go" or "Let's Go Kraken" seems like a mouth full? 

Hadn't thought of team chants Corvus, but yeah, something to be considered...Different than how the name "sounds" in full...

It's a reason I like 'Greens over 'Ems...

So...so far...Team Chants...Local Market Relevance...Marketing /Merchandise...Global Recognition/Branding...Sound...

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