SFGiants58

MLB: Project 32 - New Dugout Jackets Added

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On 7/28/2017 at 9:23 PM, SS8609 said:

SFGiants58, this has to be arguably one of the best, if not THE BEST, concept threads I have ever seen par excellence. The placement of the AL expansion team in Carolina is golden and showcases a virtually ignored color scheme that actually would work well given the region's trendsetter status (Charlotte, after all, made teal famous with the Hornets). I also like the streamlined Red Sox and Yankees looks, the addition of red to the White Sox scheme (to reflect vintage uniform looks + Reinsdorf's ownership of the Bulls), the new look Indians logo, and the great redesigns of the Twins, (Sting)rays and Mariners that more accurately reflect their markets and associated cultures. I would leave the Royals alone, because there are a plenty of folks in KC who actually put up with powder blue with nary a complaint.

 

Thanks. I wasn't really thinking about the "trendsetter" nature of the Carolina region, I just picked those colors because they looked good and fit with the team name. I also don't care about markets and "associated cultures" all that much either, I just go with what looks good to me. If I went with regional colors, the Mariners would be lime green and navy.

 

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I also like seeing my hometown Astros return to the NL (where they belong) which restores tradition (it was a historical NL farm stronghold most commonly associated with the Cardinals and Cubs farm systems) and should also benefit Houston's long-suffering regional sports network with regards to out-of-market coverage and availability since many cable and satellite providers still don't have what is now AT&T SportsNet Southwest, which languished as Comcast SportsNet Houston for these reasons and then some.

 

I just did it because it gave both West divisions a Texas team, and I like the idea of a state as big as Texas having a team in each league. I also appreciate the history of the Astros in the National League (heck, I considered putting them in the NL West and moving the Diamondbacks to the AL West in a three-division system). I really don't care about network deals.

 

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That being said, I believe the Arizona Diamondbacks should stay in the NL and the Astros should swap with the Colorado Rockies instead for a variety of reasons. A lot of Houstonians were taken aback by MLB forcing the Astros to move to the AL as a condition of Jim Crane's purchase of the team for the aforementioned farm-team ties I mentioned below. The same should also be expected of the Diamondbacks in your alignment scenario with regards to Phoenix being a historic NL farm city largely associated with the Giants (remember the Firebirds?). It also further justifies the Mariners' position as an island unto itself within the AL map, which adds a larger collective burden to the latter team's travel itinerary. Finally, Phoenix and Seattle have little in common with one another -- the geographies of the two cities are vastly different, as are their economic and political cultures.

 

I do care about history, but I really don't care about historic minor-league affiliations. Sure, the Giants had an affiliate in Phoenix for years, but that should have little to no relevance on whether or not Phoenix is an AL/NL city. It's all about the major-league level.

 

Not every team needs or should default to a geographic rival that's economically/politically/culturally similar. Besides, the Diamondbacks/Snakes aren't all that far away from the Rockies (1,308.8 miles vs. 1,413.6 miles - only about 100 miles, which isn't that much). The Mariners would still have to shlep their way to Texas and Chicago a bunch of times per year, so it doesn't make too much of a difference in travel costs. Arizona is also on Pacific Time during the baseball season (weird Daylight Savings Time quirk), which would eliminate the time zone issue for the Mariners.

 

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By contrast, the Rockies would be a better bet for the Astros to swap with because Denver and Seattle have much more in common with one another on many levels, not to mention the fact that the old Denver Bears/Zephyrs had no distinct ties to one particular league, often hopping between the AL and NL farms over the course of its history. Denver is closer to Seattle than Phoenix is, and once the Sonics come back to the NBA when that league's inevitable expansion rolls around, it will become a major rival to the Nuggets in addition to a budding Mariners-Rockies rivalry with lower travel costs. Denver and Seattle are also situated near mountain ranges (the Rockies and the Cascades, respectively), and are both politically progressive cities with their own iconic latter-day fast-casual giants (Chipotle and Starbucks), scenic Pac-12 (or is it Pac-16?) bastions (CU and UW), large high-tech economies, street cred with millennials, indie music cultures, legalized marijuana, iconic 90s TV shows (South Park and Frasier), and even common TV broadcasting traits with Fox stations (KDVR and KCPQ) owned by Tribune (soon to be Sinclair), NBC stations (KUSA and KING) owned by TEGNA, CW stations (KWGN and KSTW) on the VHF dial and AT&T-owned RSNs in both cities

 

But the DH shouldn't be at Coors Field. It would competitively cripple the team and their ability to develop pitching and attract pitching free agents. I care more about competitive balance that I do about whether or not cities have similar cultures. Heck, some of the best rivalries in sports happen in cities with vastly different civic cultures. 

 

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Finally, in regards to the other AL West teams, metro Denver has plenty of transplants from Texas (Rangers - yes, I've let the rabbit out of the hat!), Orange County (Angels) and Chicago (White Sox), plus a similar progressive culture in comparison to the Twin Cities (Twins), and traditional ties to AFC markets (the Royals in the Chiefs' market, the A's in the Raiders' soon-to-be former market, which ironically hosted the A's at one time when they were redoing the A's ballpark to build the infamous Mount Davis).

 

By my logic, the Rockies and the AL would go together like clockwork and produce a much stronger intraleague rivalry as opposed to a disjointed Diamondbacks-Mariners one with little to brag about.

 

I neither care about whether or not cities have "progressive" cultures in terms of forming baseball rivalries, nor do I care about the NFL's rivalries.

 

By my logic, the DH would prevent the Rockies from ever forming a competitive pitching staff, which would competitively cripple them (which is fate I don't want in any market, especially one as big as Denver). That's a bigger obstacle than Seattle's travel schedule.

 

The Mariners have never had an intraleague rival, except for maybe Oakland and Anaheim. Think of them like the Padres, with a shifting intraleague rival based on who is competitive at the time - not every team can have a Giants/Dodgers-level rivalry. Denver-Seattle really isn't much of rivalry in other sports (Seattle-Portland and Denver-Utah are more important in basketball, Broncos-Seahawks hasn't really been a rivalry since 2002 and Superbowl XLVIII, and the Canucks and Avs aren't rivals), and I don't see why it should be different for baseball.

 

On 7/28/2017 at 10:33 AM, scottyeagle said:

Overall, I think that's a really great look.  I'd just make a few cosmetic fixes to the primary logo (filling in those awkward holes in the M, E, and S as well as cutting off that barb on the R that cuts past the S). 

 

Thank you. I should have fixed that before I posted it. Ah well, the fix is in the spoiler box!

 

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On 7/28/2017 at 9:42 AM, coco1997 said:

Love the streamlined Part I Mariners. Intentional or not, the points at the bottom of the "M" kind of evoke a trident, even if they are pointing downward. Therefore, I don't think eliminating the trident from the logos is a complete loss. 

What can I say about the blue & gold M's that @Carolingian Steamroller hasn't already said? Everything is perfect. The nautical knot on the sleeves in particular is inspired. 

 

Thanks. The "M" was 100% intentional. I wanted it to be like the trident, but without being a trident (compare the barbs on the trident to the serifs on the "M." Since there are no superstitions regarding a two-prong pitchfork, I thought it worked. 

 

On 7/28/2017 at 3:08 PM, the admiral said:

 

The work you put in was objectively good but you made such an airtight case against your own concept before you posted the image that I didn't like it very much.

 

Thanks. Yeah, I like trying to make the best out of a bad premise. The "Twin Cities Twins" and the Black Jays should be evidence enough of this. I like the extra challenge it presents.

 

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TEXAS RANGERS, PT. I - Slate and Brick ship up to Arlington

 

The Rangers are a team where I've gone through all the motions. I've had them be royal-dominant, red-dominant, and royal/red co-dominant. For this series, I wanted to push them in a different direction. I first wanted to have them be dark royal (the same shade as the 1960's/70's Cowboys) and bronze/gold, but then I came upon a different idea (with some influence from @Lights Out's faded blue/red look). Why not replace red with the brick of the 2000-2012 Houston Astros (a look that didn't work for that team) and turn that royal blue into a slate blue (a color I experimented on for the Mariners)? It would be a unique take on the blue/red pairing, while also fitting with a "Texas" aesthetic. I threw sand/tan into the mix as a strong accent color.

 

The ranger shield is the new primary logo, and the "T" (which is now double-outlined) is the secondary. I replaced the jingoistic flag patch (flags really shouldn't be on sports uniforms) with a state outline logo with the "TR" insignia and a star marking Arlington's location (inspired by @davidmiller5's alternate logo).

 

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The home and road set has asymmetrical striping on the sleeves, pants, and socks. The home uniform has the "Rangers" wordmark, as I've never liked the "Texas Texas" nature of the current set. I decided to pull the co-dominant trick again, with a contrast-colored bill at home (which has precedent for the Rangers) and a brick-dominant cap logo on the road (like the hat I wish they wore right now). The NOB's are one-color, to avoid legibility issues. 

 

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The alternates are pretty self-explanatory. The first one is a brick jersey for wearing at home (like the current red alt), while the slate blue top works on both the home and road set (and with both caps). This jersey also bears the "Texas" wordmark and the state patch, as a bit of a compromise with the "Texas Texas" look.

 

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These alternates are my little spins on classic looks for the team. The first set is a brick-ified version of the 1994-2000 home uniform, while the second uniform updates the "Nolan Ryan-era" home uniform with the new striping, fonts, and state logo.

 

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Think of it as a look that balances the history of the team (well, 1989 to the present) with an updated color scheme. C+C is appreciated, as always!

 

For the alternate take, we get a little alternate history in the naming department.

Edited by SFGiants58
Fixed image sizes

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love this Rangers set. The colors and logos all work perfectly together. Once again great job! 

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Love, love, love this take on the Rangers. The dust-colored trim really makes the set! I'd love to see that Texas heritage alt in action. 

 

Not sure why, but the the first, second and fourth images all look stretched out. 

 

Can't wait to see the alternate-named take!

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5 minutes ago, coco1997 said:

Love, love, love this take on the Rangers. The dust-colored trim really makes the set! I'd love to see that Texas heritage alt in action. 

 

Not sure why, but the the first, second and fourth images all look stretched out. 

 

Can't wait to see the alternate-named take!

 

Thanks! I've fixed the image links. Apparently, the board software was doing some weird image resizing thing.

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Great work on the Texas Rangers with the Slate Blue, Brick, and Sand colors.

 

By the way, I'm guessing the alternate concept would have the Dallas-Fort Worth Rangers name (after the old minor league team), since you're not a fan of the whole "state/province identifier" thing.

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LOVE the new Texas design! The colors more accurately reflect an old-school Texas aesthetic, and getting rid of the unnecessary drop shadow under the "T" makes it look more professional on paper. The gold "T" will take some getting used to, but if sports fans in the Metroplex can adjust to drastic logo and uniform changes in all their other sports teams sans the Cowboys (which would face a reprimand from the Governor or vice versa if they ever changed from their classic look), then they can certainly adjust to a cleaned-up Rangers look that feels like home for its devoted fanbase. The Rangers would be wise to adopt this look when they move into their new stadium - if it ever gets off the ground.

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The rangers look great with the new color scheme. I'm glad you didn't stray too far from their current brand other than the colors as I've always liked their current uniforms.

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I like the balance between red and blue and the addition of the tan. The only thing that doesn't work, which I know because I've tried it before, is a double outline on the late '80s tailed script. I get the commitment to not having red touch blue but unlike the Indians scripts that did so it's too thin to support two outlines. You just have to resign yourself to two layers on the script and numbers for that particular logo.

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Rangers fan here. So I'm just gonna shoot from the hip. First thought was, I like the color scheme and could get used to it. The brick made me sad that Globe Life is being discarded, it is a beautiful brick park. But I also wished the brick red was more red. Us Rangers fans seem to like our bold red. I think you could split the difference and not make anyone think of those dadgum Astros. The slate blue is perfect.

 

I dig the refreshed primary. With the addition of sand (which I like) the white seems weird though. Like too many colors on that logo. Same goes for the tertiary, I'd ditch the white outlines for sand and go for a simplified look on logo and patch. Just initial impression. Not sure I like the double outlines with this scheme, though I can tolerate it. I appreciate the deletion of the shadow on the T though.

 

Texas is a prideful place, so I guess we're required to wear Texas on our jerseys at all times. But I like your addition of a Rangers wordmark at home, makes a lot of sense and looks good. I really like the striping. The first set of secondaries are nice. On point with what Rangers fans have come to expect for the home stand jersey rotation. (I'd buy your Friday home alt)

 

For your second set of alternates, I really wished you would have scaled back for more of a retro vibe with the Nolan style Heritage uniform. I don't think the double outlines work here. I actually like the cream but I guess I was wishing for a powder blue. The script would look better with a simple red/brick outline. It's cool as-is but I don't think it really screams the heritage vibes you're going for.

 

Overall, nice set. I dig it. Looking forward to your alternate take!

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On 8/1/2017 at 4:41 AM, JH42XCC said:

Great work on the Texas Rangers with the Slate Blue, Brick, and Sand colors.

 

By the way, I'm guessing the alternate concept would have the Dallas-Fort Worth Rangers name (after the old minor league team), since you're not a fan of the whole "state/province identifier" thing.

 

Thanks. It won't be "Dallas-Fort Worth," as that sounds too minor-league for my tastes. We don't have the Dallas-Fort Worth Cowboys, after all.

 

On 8/1/2017 at 6:01 PM, the admiral said:

I like the balance between red and blue and the addition of the tan. The only thing that doesn't work, which I know because I've tried it before, is a double outline on the late '80s tailed script. I get the commitment to not having red touch blue but unlike the Indians scripts that did so it's too thin to support two outlines. You just have to resign yourself to two layers on the script and numbers for that particular logo.

 

Thank you. Looking at it, I was really unsure about the double outline. It's not going to be there in the next update.

 

On 8/1/2017 at 9:01 PM, Steelman said:

Rangers fan here. So I'm just gonna shoot from the hip. First thought was, I like the color scheme and could get used to it. The brick made me sad that Globe Life is being discarded, it is a beautiful brick park. But I also wished the brick red was more red. Us Rangers fans seem to like our bold red. I think you could split the difference and not make anyone think of those dadgum Astros. The slate blue is perfect.

 

I dig the refreshed primary. With the addition of sand (which I like) the white seems weird though. Like too many colors on that logo. Same goes for the tertiary, I'd ditch the white outlines for sand and go for a simplified look on logo and patch. Just initial impression. Not sure I like the double outlines with this scheme, though I can tolerate it. I appreciate the deletion of the shadow on the T though.

 

Texas is a prideful place, so I guess we're required to wear Texas on our jerseys at all times. But I like your addition of a Rangers wordmark at home, makes a lot of sense and looks good. I really like the striping. The first set of secondaries are nice. On point with what Rangers fans have come to expect for the home stand jersey rotation. (I'd buy your Friday home alt)

 

For your second set of alternates, I really wished you would have scaled back for more of a retro vibe with the Nolan style Heritage uniform. I don't think the double outlines work here. I actually like the cream but I guess I was wishing for a powder blue. The script would look better with a simple red/brick outline. It's cool as-is but I don't think it really screams the heritage vibes you're going for.

 

Overall, nice set. I dig it. Looking forward to your alternate take!

 

Thanks! I thought Rangers fans were going to rake me over coals (or a propane grill) for this design. I'm glad you liked it. I wanted to go with the Astros' brick red straight-up, as I've always been fond of the color (just not for the Astros). Besides, with that brick/black/sand color scheme so totally associated with the team's competitive nadir, I think it might be free from all "rivalry" stigma. I might try it with the Diamondbacks' red color, to see if that looks better (I'm promoting the "Snakes" to a standard entry, BTW).

 

The double outlines were kind of necessary to keep the brick and slate from blurring too much (a problem I had with the Rangers' 2001-2013 uniforms). I see how they could be a pain on blue/brick backgrounds (white touching sand), but I like the extra depth. 

 

Moving on, here is the latest in the "Death to State Names" series!
 

DALLAS CHAPARRALS, PT. II - Speeding into an alternate history

 

Let's go back to the early-1970's. The Dallas Chaparrals are an ABA team, trying to find a solution to their financial difficulties. Instead of becoming a traveling team for 1970-71 (under the name "Texas Chaparrals"), they hold on in Dallas that year. The San Antonio ownership group forms at this juncture (a year earlier than in our timeline), and buys the team with the intent on moving them to San Antonio. Instead of a lease deal, it is instead an outright sale to move the team to San Antonio. These new owners rechristen the team as the San Antonio Spurs, whose successive history is otherwise the same. 

 

As part of this alternate timeline, both the Chaparrals' owners and the San Antonio group sell off the name trademarks to the recently-relocated Washington Senators. This sale would be after the Texas Rangers law enforcement organization and the NHL New York Rangers refused Robert Short's proposal for a team name. So, the MK. II Washington Senators became the Dallas Chaparrals (Swingin' Chaps to some) of Turnpike/Arlington Stadium. 

 

In 1994, after many years as a mediocre/bottom-feeder organization, the team moved to The Ballpark in Arlington. In the move, they dumped the royal/red color scheme in favor of a revolutionary brick, black, and tan look with touches of light blue to mimic the striping of the Greater Roadrunner - a Chaparral bird (Geococcyx californianus). Some cried BFBS, while others were just happy another red/blue team shirked that overused color scheme. 

 

Hopping back into our universe, @the admiral suggested the name for the Rangers as a better identity than the "Texas Texas" junk. I combined it with my desire to see the Astros' old color scheme on the Rangers while using bits of the Orioles' ornithologically-correct bird (depicted in a run). Put the two together (with some help from the University of Wyoming font - which I used in a Suns concept way back when), and we've got a stew going (thanks @MJD7 for the consult). I used the "top bar" on the wordmarks to incorporate the powder blue.

 

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The uniforms feature a three-layer stripe, to go with the scripts. The roundel appears on both uniforms, which feature the brick-dominant look I liked so much on the "Railmen" Astros identity. Powder blue also appears as a single band in the center of the Northwestern-esque sock stripes.

 

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The alternates are pretty standard. There's a brick version of the home uniform, alongside a black alternate for both home and road use. While I was hesitant to have the "D"/"big D" (insert snicker here) as the jersey crest, I think the front number makes it different enough from the Tigers. 

 

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While I'm not entirely pleased with how the Chaparral turned out, I still believe that it's a worthwhile experiment that combines a unique color scheme with a classy name. C+C is appreciated, as always!

 

Up next, the AL West updates and an NL East preview!

Edited by SFGiants58
Grammatical corrections had to be made.

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Okay.... how did I not stumble across this thread earlier? I absolutely loved your older MLB stuff, and you continue to knock it out of the park (pun 100% intended!). 

 

There's way too much to go over here, and I love most of these sets to be honest. There's a few where I'm not 100% sold the designs, particularly the Black Jays set (I hate Bevels on sports jerseys), but even then my nitpicks are minor. I can't to see what else will be done here, and I personally want to see the Brewers really really badly! 

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Thanks for the shoutout. I wonder who "the Argentine Asswipe" was in that third citation. Send it to the band name thread.

 

I like the scripts, the color scheme (the little touches of light blue really add a lot to what would otherwise be a fairly shopworn brick/beige/black palette), and the bird. It may cut a little too lose to the Orioles but I like it. I like that it's such an unusual-looking bird. We see cardinals and blue jays all the time, but that chaparral bird is somethin' else. Most of all, it's an improvement over "Texas Rangers," which really should have been shot down Vancouver Mounties-style whether in favor of "Dallas Rangers" or something like this.

 

I'm interested to see what this means for the Astros. It would have to preclude any return to that color scheme, I'm sure.

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Woah, it's like an AL West Orioles! I really like the color scheme; it works much better here than it did for the D-Backs. The dash of powder blue is also a nice touch, and the "Old West" style wordmarks suit a Texas team well. The only thing I might do differently would be to make the scripts on the brick alt white instead of black. It's a dark enough shade of red that white would probably contrast better. 

 

Now I really want to live in a world where the Stingrays, Snakes and Chaparrals all exist. Not sure what you have planned for your alternate take on the Astros but I'd love to see a train-themed "Houston Railmen" concept. 

 

Congrats on finishing the American League. Can't wait to see what you have planned for the Senior Circuit!

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This looks great! I agree with @the admiral in that the inclusion of light blue really does wonders for the set. I love the sock stripes too, it's a really unique look.

 

The American League alone has already made this series one of my favorites ever, I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with the NL!

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On the wordmark and across the chest, it looks like you need to close up "CHAP" and "ARRALS" - otherwise this is a nice set.

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Thanks for the C+C guys, I appreciate it.

 

On 8/4/2017 at 4:52 AM, KittSmith_95 said:

Okay.... how did I not stumble across this thread earlier? I absolutely loved your older MLB stuff, and you continue to knock it out of the park (pun 100% intended!). 

 

There's way too much to go over here, and I love most of these sets to be honest. There's a few where I'm not 100% sold the designs, particularly the Black Jays set (I hate Bevels on sports jerseys), but even then my nitpicks are minor. I can't to see what else will be done here, and I personally want to see the Brewers really really badly! 

 

Thank you. That Black Jays set was a total case of "I never want to see it in real life, but it's worth a shot to explore the possibility and make the best out of a bad idea." I think you'll enjoy my take on the Brewers.

 

On 8/4/2017 at 5:02 AM, the admiral said:

Thanks for the shoutout. I wonder who "the Argentine Asswipe" was in that third citation. Send it to the band name thread.

 

I like the scripts, the color scheme (the little touches of light blue really add a lot to what would otherwise be a fairly shopworn brick/beige/black palette), and the bird. I like that it's such an unusual-looking bird. We see cardinals and blue jays all the time, but that chaparral bird is somethin' else. Most of all, it's an improvement over "Texas Rangers," which really should have been shot down Vancouver Mounties-style whether in favor of "Dallas Rangers" or something like this.

 

I'm interested to see what this means for the Astros. It would have to preclude any return to that color scheme, I'm sure.

 

Thanks, and you're welcome. "Argentine Asswipe" would make both an interesting band name and empanada bar name. It was hard trying to find a way to depict the bird in a way that conveyed motion and didn't look goofy. I made versions of the logo that were just the bird's head/neck in a roundel and in a baseball diamond. It reminded me too much of crummy "craft beer" to use it. I think you'll like what I'll do with the Astros, which thankfully won't be revisiting that color scheme (it never worked for them).

 

On 8/4/2017 at 8:35 AM, coco1997 said:

Woah, it's like an AL West Orioles! I really like the color scheme; it works much better here than it did for the D-Backs. The dash of powder blue is also a nice touch, and the "Old West" style wordmarks suit a Texas team well. The only thing I might do differently would be to make the scripts on the brick alt white instead of black. It's a dark enough shade of red that white would probably contrast better. 

 

Now I really want to live in a world where the Stingrays, Snakes and Chaparrals all exist. Not sure what you have planned for your alternate take on the Astros but I'd love to see a train-themed "Houston Railmen" concept. 

 

Congrats on finishing the American League. Can't wait to see what you have planned for the Senior Circuit!

 

Thank you! I've got a tan script edition as an experiment. Because it's inconsistent with the cap, I paired it with a white-crowned cap (because I love those). I thought about the "Railmen" as an alternate take, but I didn't like the name all that much. I think you'll still like what I'll do with them.

 

Anywho, here are the updates and a few experiments!

 

Anaheim in Navy/Red - I tried out @MJD7's contrasting sleeve idea.

 

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Chicago - I removed the sleeve patch on the home uniform and tried out a white-crowned cap on the home alt.

 

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Kansas City - The front numbers and NOB's contrast on the purple alternate.

 

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Minnesota - I adjusted the navy alternates for the new patch.

 

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Twin Cities Twins - I flipped the "Twin Cities Twins" color balance.

 

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Oakland Oaks - I tried out the Oakland flag's tree in the logo. I also added two fauxbacks, one to the 1968 A's and one to the 1929/30 squads.

 

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Rangers - I simplified the retro alternate, and presented a "Sedona Red" version of the logo sheet.

 

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Chaparrals - The aforementioned white-crowned cap appears here.

 

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...and now, the NL East preview!

 

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Up next, the Atlanta Braves!

Edited by SFGiants58
I redid the image links.

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We're getting les Expos back! That's good! The Pirates are wearing vests. That's bad. The Phils are in burgundy! That's good! The NL East doesn't have the Cubs and Cardinals. That's bad.

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Lots of updates to discuss!

 

- As expected, flipping the colors on the green & powder blue Twins' home and road wordmarks makes them much more legible. 
 

- Not sure how I feel about the Sox's white cap, but  it's a nice idea.

 

- I really dig those Oaks fauxbacks. Very classy!

- The simplified outlines on the Rangers Heritage jersey are a big improvement.

 

Very excited to see what you have in store for the NL East. That teaser is tantalizing! 

 

P.S. In my comment about the Chaparrals' color scheme, I meant to say it works better for them than it did the Astros, not the D-Backs.  

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I'm liking what I see out of these teasers & EXPOS HYPE!!!!!! 

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