The Pointless Realignment Outpost

[Philsphan]

With the talk of Big East basketball schools jumping ship, I was thinking about how smart it would have been for the ACC to grab Georgetown after Maryland left. Yes, G'town doesn't play FBS football but it secures the DC market again and adds to the overall brand of the ACC. Games against Syracuse, BC and Notre Dame would be great television.

If the ACC wanted to go to an 18 team league, they could add Villanova and St. John's. That would give the ACC a basketball monopoly of the East Coast and they could play their conference tournament at MSG.

[rams80]

With the talk of Big East basketball schools jumping ship, I was thinking about how smart it would have been for the ACC to grab Georgetown after Maryland left. Yes, G'town doesn't play FBS football but it secures the DC market again and adds to the overall brand of the ACC. Games against Syracuse, BC and Notre Dame would be great television.

If the ACC wanted to go to an 18 team league, they could add Villanova and St. John's. That would give the ACC a basketball monopoly of the East Coast and they could play their conference tournament at MSG.

Adding basketball schools when you are a football league is insanely stupid.

[JH42XCC]

With the talk of Big East basketball schools jumping ship, I was thinking about how smart it would have been for the ACC to grab Georgetown after Maryland left. Yes, G'town doesn't play FBS football but it secures the DC market again and adds to the overall brand of the ACC. Games against Syracuse, BC and Notre Dame would be great television.

If the ACC wanted to go to an 18 team league, they could add Villanova and St. John's. That would give the ACC a basketball monopoly of the East Coast and they could play their conference tournament at MSG.

Adding basketball schools when you are a football league is insanely stupid.

If Georgetown, Villanova, and St. John's wanted to join the ACC, these things would have to happen:

-Georgetown's football program (which is currently in the FCS) would have to upgrade their stadium to FBS standards; same with Villanova.

-St. John's would have to relaunch their football program, which they discontinued in 2002.

Neither of these things are happening.

[BBTV]

With the talk of Big East basketball schools jumping ship, I was thinking about how smart it would have been for the ACC to grab Georgetown after Maryland left. Yes, G'town doesn't play FBS football but it secures the DC market again and adds to the overall brand of the ACC. Games against Syracuse, BC and Notre Dame would be great television.

If the ACC wanted to go to an 18 team league, they could add Villanova and St. John's. That would give the ACC a basketball monopoly of the East Coast and they could play their conference tournament at MSG.

Adding basketball schools when you are a football league is insanely stupid.

If Georgetown, Villanova, and St. John's wanted to join the ACC, these things would have to happen:

-Georgetown's football program (which is currently in the FCS) would have to upgrade their stadium to FBS standards; same with Villanova.

-St. John's would have to relaunch their football program, which they discontinued in 2002.

Neither of these things are happening.

Villanova was prepared to go FBS, but by the time they finally decided, the Big East took the offer off the table. I think that would be a mistake though. As for the stadium situation, they could share Franklin Field with Penn while deciding what to do about their own stadium (which IMO is not much, because that area can't support the traffic that a big-time program would bring in.)

[illwauk]

With the talk of Big East basketball schools jumping ship, I was thinking about how smart it would have been for the ACC to grab Georgetown after Maryland left. Yes, G'town doesn't play FBS football but it secures the DC market again and adds to the overall brand of the ACC. Games against Syracuse, BC and Notre Dame would be great television.

If the ACC wanted to go to an 18 team league, they could add Villanova and St. John's. That would give the ACC a basketball monopoly of the East Coast and they could play their conference tournament at MSG.

Adding basketball schools when you are a football league is insanely stupid.

If Georgetown, Villanova, and St. John's wanted to join the ACC, these things would have to happen:

-Georgetown's football program (which is currently in the FCS) would have to upgrade their stadium to FBS standards; same with Villanova.

-St. John's would have to relaunch their football program, which they discontinued in 2002.

Neither of these things are happening.

Villanova was prepared to go FBS, but by the time they finally decided, the Big East took the offer off the table. I think that would be a mistake though. As for the stadium situation, they could share Franklin Field with Penn while deciding what to do about their own stadium (which IMO is not much, because that area can't support the traffic that a big-time program would bring in.)

Wasn't Villanova eyeing Phily Union's facility at some point?

[JackieMoon]

My 2014 NHL Realignment

[JH42XCC]

With the talk of Big East basketball schools jumping ship, I was thinking about how smart it would have been for the ACC to grab Georgetown after Maryland left. Yes, G'town doesn't play FBS football but it secures the DC market again and adds to the overall brand of the ACC. Games against Syracuse, BC and Notre Dame would be great television.

If the ACC wanted to go to an 18 team league, they could add Villanova and St. John's. That would give the ACC a basketball monopoly of the East Coast and they could play their conference tournament at MSG.

Adding basketball schools when you are a football league is insanely stupid.

If Georgetown, Villanova, and St. John's wanted to join the ACC, these things would have to happen:

-Georgetown's football program (which is currently in the FCS) would have to upgrade their stadium to FBS standards; same with Villanova.

-St. John's would have to relaunch their football program, which they discontinued in 2002.

Neither of these things are happening.

Villanova was prepared to go FBS, but by the time they finally decided, the Big East took the offer off the table. I think that would be a mistake though. As for the stadium situation, they could share Franklin Field with Penn while deciding what to do about their own stadium (which IMO is not much, because that area can't support the traffic that a big-time program would bring in.)

Wasn't Villanova eyeing Phily Union's facility at some point?

Yup. If I remember correctly, Villanova once thought about playing at PPL Park, just in case the football program were to move up to the FBS level.

[BrySmalls]

My 2014 NHL Realignment

I see the brilliance in this post!

[BrySmalls]

Future NHL (24 Teams: 15 American Teams, 9 Canadian Teams; 6 Teams per Division):

Wales Conference:

Patrick Division:

Boston Bruins

Philadelphia Flyers

Pittsburgh Penguins

New Jersey Devils

New York Rangers

Washington Capitals

Adams Division:

Buffalo Sabres

Hamilton Tigers (relocated Florida Panthers)

Montreal Canadiens

Ottawa Senators

Quebec Nordiques (relocated New York Islanders)

Toronto Maple Leafs

Campbell Conference:

Norris Division:

Chicago Blackhawks

Colorado Avalanche

Detroit Red Wings

Minnesota Wild

St. Louis Blues

Winnipeg Jets

Smythe Division:

Calgary Flames

Edmonton Oilers

Los Angeles Kings

San Jose Sharks

Seattle Totems (relocated Phoenix Coyotes)

Vancouver Canucks

Teams disenfranchised: Anaheim Ducks, Carolina Hurricanes, Columbus Blue Jackets, Dallas Stars, Nashville Predators, and the Tampa Bay Lightning.

[McCall]

Future NHL (24 Teams: 15 American Teams, 9 Canadian Teams; 6 Teams per Division):

Wales Conference:

Patrick Division:

Boston Bruins

Philadelphia Flyers

Pittsburgh Penguins

New Jersey Devils

New York Rangers

Washington Capitals

Adams Division:

Buffalo Sabres

Hamilton Tigers (relocated Florida Panthers)

Montreal Canadiens

Ottawa Senators

Quebec Nordiques (relocated New York Islanders)

Toronto Maple Leafs

Campbell Conference:

Norris Division:

Chicago Blackhawks

Colorado Avalanche

Detroit Red Wings

Minnesota Wild

St. Louis Blues

Winnipeg Jets

Smythe Division:

Calgary Flames

Edmonton Oilers

Los Angeles Kings

San Jose Sharks

Seattle Totems (relocated Phoenix Coyotes)

Vancouver Canucks

Teams disenfranchised: Anaheim Ducks, Carolina Hurricanes, Columbus Blue Jackets, Dallas Stars, Nashville Predators, and the Tampa Bay Lightning.

Why are you disenfranchising so many teams? Some of them, Stars, Canes, Lightning and Ducks are rather successful. And why relocate the Isles when they just agreed to a move to Brooklyn? Did you just randomly choose teams?

[The_Admiral]

Yeah, that's too many teams to cut, but I'm missing the part where the Carolina Hurricanes were successful, unless having won a most forgettable Stanley Cup with the second-liners of the late '90s while otherwise missing postseasons and hemorrhaging money constitutes "successful." I'm against contracting six teams, and not even that high on contracting two, but I can't think of any team more inessential to the league than they are.

[McCall]

Yeah, that's too many teams to cut, but I'm missing the part where the Carolina Hurricanes were successful, unless having won a most forgettable Stanley Cup with the second-liners of the late '90s while otherwise missing postseasons and hemorrhaging money constitutes "successful." I'm against contracting six teams, and not even that high on contracting two, but I can't think of any team more inessential to the league than they are.

Columbus, Florida and Phoenix. Maybe even Nashville.

Contract or merge Phoenix, Columbus and Florida into Quebec and go 28 teams, 4 divisions/conferences of 7.

Quick geographical alignment

West: VAN, CLG, EDM, SJ, LA, ANA, COL

Central: STL, MIN, DAL, CHI, DET, NSH, WIN

North: TOR, OTT, MON, BOS, PIT, QUE, BUF

East: NYI, NYR, NJ, PHI, WAS, CAR, TB

[BrySmalls]

I knew my moves would start a flame war. It would be great to see hockey return to a pre-30 team league even if it rumples a few fan bases' feathers.

[The_Admiral]

Yeah, that's too many teams to cut, but I'm missing the part where the Carolina Hurricanes were successful, unless having won a most forgettable Stanley Cup with the second-liners of the late '90s while otherwise missing postseasons and hemorrhaging money constitutes "successful." I'm against contracting six teams, and not even that high on contracting two, but I can't think of any team more inessential to the league than they are.

Columbus, Florida and Phoenix. Maybe even Nashville.

Phoenix and Miami, for all their myriad flaws as hockey towns, are at least large enough population centers and media markets that you can halfheartedly defend having given them a whirl. Raleigh gives you roughly the population of Hartford or Milwaukee with none of the hockey culture and three college teams to stand in line behind (though admittedly, their roommate is kind of the Shemp of the three). Nashville and Columbus, I'll happily give you, but I dunno, at least Nashville is something in the great quilt of America and not just a bunch of office parks and ring roads where people flee from Pittsburgh and Buffalo.

Your 28-team alignment is intriguing, but the costs and logistics of merging three organizations into one kinda makes my head spin.

[McCall]

Yeah, that's too many teams to cut, but I'm missing the part where the Carolina Hurricanes were successful, unless having won a most forgettable Stanley Cup with the second-liners of the late '90s while otherwise missing postseasons and hemorrhaging money constitutes "successful." I'm against contracting six teams, and not even that high on contracting two, but I can't think of any team more inessential to the league than they are.

Columbus, Florida and Phoenix. Maybe even Nashville.

Phoenix and Miami, for all their myriad flaws as hockey towns, are at least large enough population centers and media markets that you can halfheartedly defend having given them a whirl. Raleigh gives you roughly the population of Hartford or Milwaukee with none of the hockey culture and three college teams to stand in line behind (though admittedly, their roommate is kind of the Shemp of the three). Nashville and Columbus, I'll happily give you, but I dunno, at least Nashville is something in the great quilt of America and not just a bunch of office parks and ring roads where people flee from Pittsburgh and Buffalo.

Your 28-team alignment is intriguing, but the costs and logistics of merging three organizations into one kinda makes my head spin.

Then move one and contract the other two. I was just saying some form of going from 30 to 28.

And markets aside, you look at what teams are having success, financially and such. Now I don't religiously follow hockey, but it appears to me that Carolina is in better shape than the other ones.

[The_Admiral]

They lost $9.5 million last year, which puts them ahead of eight teams, though that perhaps says more about the other eight teams.

The Blue Jackets are bleeding twice as badly, and you've gotta think that between the complete history of futility, the 1.5+ lockouts, and the cancelled All-Star Game, the earth out there is tasting mighty salty. Of course, they just got that arena bailout, which nevertheless makes them nearly immovable for the next thirtysome years, so that should be a fun zombie team to watch in about four, five years or so.

[JH42XCC]

While we're at it, here's what a 32-team NHL would look like.

EASTERN CONFERENCE

Atlantic

• New Jersey Devils
  
• New York Islanders (Brooklyn)
  
• New York Rangers
  
• Philadelphia Flyers
  

Northeast

• Boston Bruins
  
• Montreal Canadiens
  
• Ottawa Senators
  
• Toronto Maple Leafs
  

Southeast

• Carolina Hurricanes
  
• Florida Panthers
  
• Tampa Bay Lightning
  
• Washington Capitals
  

Central

• Buffalo Sabres
  
• Columbus Blue Jackets
  
• Detroit Red Wings
  
• Pittsburgh Penguins
  

WESTERN CONFERENCE

Central

• Chicago Blackhawks
  
• Minnesota Wild
  
• Nashville Predators
  
• St. Louis Blues
  

Northwest

• Calgary Flames
  
• Edmonton Oilers
  
• Vancouver Canucks
  
• Winnipeg Jets
  

Southwest

• Colorado Avalanche
  
• Dallas Stars
  
• Houston Expansion
  
• Phoenix Coyotes
  

Pacific

• Anaheim Ducks
  
• Los Angeles Kings
  
• Portland Expansion
  
• San Jose Sharks
  

...or we could always go with a 28-team NHL.

EASTERN CONFERENCE

Atlantic

• Carolina Hurricanes
  
• New Jersey Devils
  
• New York Islanders
  
• New York Rangers
  
• Philadelphia Flyers
  
• Tampa Bay Lightning
  
• Washington Capitals
  

Northeast

• Boston Bruins
  
• Buffalo Sabres
  
• Montreal Canadiens
  
• Ottawa Senators
  
• Pittsburgh Penguins
  
• Quebec Nordiques (relocated Phoenix Coyotes)
  
• Toronto Maple Leafs
  

WESTERN CONFERENCE

Central

• Chicago Blackhawks
  
• Dallas Stars
  
• Detroit Red Wings
  
• Minnesota Wild
  
• Nashville Predators
  
• St. Louis Blues
  
• Winnipeg Jets
  

Pacific

• Anaheim Ducks
  
• Calgary Flames
  
• Colorado Avalanche
  
• Edmonton Oilers
  
• Los Angeles Kings
  
• San Jose Sharks
  
• Vancouver Canucks
  

Contracted teams

• Columbus Blue Jackets
  
• Florida Panthers
  

[McCall]

While we're at it, here's what a 32-team NHL would look like.

EASTERN CONFERENCE

Atlantic

• New Jersey Devils
  
• New York Islanders (Brooklyn)
  
• New York Rangers
  
• Philadelphia Flyers
  

Northeast

• Boston Bruins
  
• Montreal Canadiens
  
• Ottawa Senators
  
• Toronto Maple Leafs
  

Southeast

• Carolina Hurricanes
  
• Florida Panthers
  
• Tampa Bay Lightning
  
• Washington Capitals
  

Central

• Buffalo Sabres
  
• Columbus Blue Jackets
  
• Detroit Red Wings
  
• Pittsburgh Penguins
  

WESTERN CONFERENCE

Central

• Chicago Blackhawks
  
• Minnesota Wild
  
• Nashville Predators
  
• St. Louis Blues
  

Northwest

• Calgary Flames
  
• Edmonton Oilers
  
• Vancouver Canucks
  
• Winnipeg Jets
  

Southwest

• Colorado Avalanche
  
• Dallas Stars
  
• Houston Expansion
  
• Phoenix Coyotes
  

Pacific

• Anaheim Ducks
  
• Los Angeles Kings
  
• Portland Expansion
  
• San Jose Sharks
  

...or we could always go with a 28-team NHL.

EASTERN CONFERENCE

Atlantic

• Carolina Hurricanes
  
• New Jersey Devils
  
• New York Islanders
  
• New York Rangers
  
• Philadelphia Flyers
  
• Tampa Bay Lightning
  
• Washington Capitals
  

Northeast

• Boston Bruins
  
• Buffalo Sabres
  
• Montreal Canadiens
  
• Ottawa Senators
  
• Pittsburgh Penguins
  
• Quebec Nordiques (relocated Phoenix Coyotes)
  
• Toronto Maple Leafs
  

WESTERN CONFERENCE

Central

• Chicago Blackhawks
  
• Dallas Stars
  
• Detroit Red Wings
  
• Minnesota Wild
  
• Nashville Predators
  
• St. Louis Blues
  
• Winnipeg Jets
  

Pacific

• Anaheim Ducks
  
• Calgary Flames
  
• Colorado Avalanche
  
• Edmonton Oilers
  
• Los Angeles Kings
  
• San Jose Sharks
  
• Vancouver Canucks
  

Contracted teams

• Columbus Blue Jackets
  
• Florida Panthers
  

Don't think 32 teams would work, especially one that keeps the Coyotes in Phoenix.

I do agree with your 28-team plan, though that could be because I posted the exact same thing a few posts before.

[max]

Houston is a much better expansion option than Portland, however, there are some cities that I think would be better. My favorite two options will appear at the bottom:

Based on current attendance averages per game of all current domestic hockey leagues, these are the teams that rank the highest (the Canadian Hockey Leagues attendance statistics are taken from last season...I can't find the attendance figures ANYWHERE!). Includes AHL, ECHL, CHL, SPHL, QMJHL, WHL, OHL, NCAA Div. I, USHL, and NAHL teams (the Federal Hockey League, NCAA Div. III, and Canadian Interuniversity Sport college teams are not listed)

1. North Dakota (Grand Forks, ND) 11,750

2. Quebec Remparts (Quebec City, PQ) 10,525

3. Minnesota Golden Gophers (Minneapolis, MN) 9,771

4. Wisconsin Badgers (Madison, WI) 9,419

5. Hershey Bears (Hershey, PA) 9,085

6. London Knights (London, ON) 8,859

7. Fort Wayne Komets (Fort Wayne, IN) 7,829

8. Calgary Hitmen (Calgary, AB) 7,428

9. Lake Erie Monsters (Cleveland, OH) 7,184

10. Providence Bruins (Providence, RI) 7,076

11. Hamilton Bulldogs (Hamilton, ON) 7,067

the list above is all of the teams whose per game attendance is above 7,000.

2. Quebec Remparts (Quebec, PQ) 10,525

16. Houston Aeros (Houston, TX) 6,370

38. Missouri Mavericks (Independence, MO) 5,335

62. Las Vegas Wranglers (Las Vegas, NV) 4,514

72. Portland Winterhawks (Portland, OR) 4,085

the list above includes most of the cities commonly thrown around as potential NHL franchises

The 229-team list I have compiled so far (without NCAA Div III, FHL, and CIS teams) is a pretty good representation of a city's hockey appreciation during the NHL lockout (the Canadian Hockey League's 2011-12 attendances may be higher than average considering that playoff hockey reports are usually higher than mid-season per-game averages).

Some of my conclusions:

This list of 229 teams ranked in the order of per-game attendance averages is, if nothing else, probably a great representation of which cities should have AAA (AHL) teams. Have a look:

"2nd tier North American pro hockey league"

Western Conference

Ontario, CA

Victoria, BC

Kelowna, BC

Calgary, AB

Grand Forks, ND

Denver, CO

Houston, TX

San Antonio, TX

Minneapolis, MN

Duluth, MN

Madison, WI

Chicago, IL

Fort Wayne, IN

Grand Rapids, MI

Toledo, OH

Eastern Conference

London, ON

Toronto, ON

Windsor, ON

Kitchener, ON

Hamilton, ON

Orlando, FL

Cleveland, OH

Rochester, NY

Hershey, PA

Bridgeport, CT

Providence, RI

Quebec, PQ

Boston, MA

Halifax, NS

St. John's, NL

USING CURRENT "MINOR LEAGUE" (NO NCAA/JUNIOR) TEAMS

Eastern Conference

Northeast Division

St. John's IceCaps WPG

Providence Bruins BOS

Bridgeport Sound Tigers NYI

Toronto Marlies TOR

W-B/Scranton Penguins PIT

Atlantic Division

Hershey Bears WDC

Syracuse Crunch TB

Rochester Americans BUF

Hamilton Bulldogs MTL

Lake Erie Monsters COL

Southeast Division

Orlando Solar Bears NYR

Norfolk Admirals ANA

Charlotte Checkers CAR

Gwinnett Gladiators PHX

Florida Everblades NJ

Western Conference

Central Division

Toledo Walleye CHI

Fort Wayne Komets OTT

Grand Rapids Griffins DET

Evansville IceMen PHI

Chicago Wolves VAN

Midwest

Houston Aeros MIN

San Antonio Rampage FLA

Texas Stars DAL

Missouri Mavericks STL

Colorado Eagles NSH

Pacific

Utah Grizzlies CGY

Ontario Reign LA

Stockton Thunder EDM

Bakersfield Condors CBJ

Alaska Aces SJ

*I tried to keep all of the current affiliations for the current teams

The best choices for NHL expansion are suburban Toronto and Quebec City (the NHL is really undervaluing Canadian cities)

*does anyone have the 2012-13 CIS/Canadian Hockey League per-game attendance figures or know of where I can at least begin looking?

Go Mavs

[max]

Post-Apocalyptic NHL

-2 conferences (East/West)

-8 divisions

-62, 77, 80, or 81 games (balanced schedule, balanced schedule +conf opponents, b.s.+conf/div opponents, b.s.+conf/div/rival)

-divisional playoff round (top 2 from each division face each other in first round of the playoffs - Kings vs. Sharks, Oilers vs. Flames, etc. every year)

-divisional round winners re-seeded using some new method other than total points

-Stanley Cup

Western Conference

Los Angeles Kings

San Jose Sharks

Anaheim Ducks

Arizona Coyotes

Vancouver Canucks

Calgary Flames

Edmonton Oilers

Winnipeg Jets

Minnesota Wild

Colorado Avalanche

St. Louis Blues

Dallas Stars

Detroit Red Wings

Chicago Blackhawks

Columbus Blue Jackets

Nashville Predators

Eastern Conference

Washington Capitals

Tampa Bay Lightning

Florida Panthers

Carolina Hurricanes

Philadelphia Flyers

Brooklyn Islanders

New Jersey Devils

New York Rangers

Toronto Maple Leafs

Quebec EXPANSION

Montreal Canadiens

Ottawa Senators

Toronto EXPANSION

Boston Bruins

Buffalo Sabres

Pittsburgh Penguins