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13 hours ago, buzzcut said:


Every single person I have talked to or heard from within the baseball industry says Minor League Players are grossly underpaid. There’s not even a debate over the issue. Nobody is pro-Owner when it comes to this.

 

Rob Manfred’s response has been as tone deaf as you can get. The nerve of these players to ask for a livable wage.

 

The recent threat by MLB of starting their own minor league if they can’t come to an agreement is as empty as a A-level ballplayer’s wallet. MLB doesn’t have the money to come up with a livable wage increase, but they have the money to invest tens of millions if not hundreds of millions in overhauling their business model? Give me a break.

 

I had hope that Manfred would be an improvement over Selig. I can definitively say at this point that he’s not. He’s just as clueless as Bud was when it comes to selling the sport, and like Bud has continually sold this gloomy financial outlook while the league is making more money than ever.

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40 minutes ago, Red-Knight said:

https://ballparkdigest.com/2020/01/08/contraction-in-flux-as-lowell-spinners-may-escape-dream-league/

 

Looks like some teams have been successful in arguing their way off of the contraction list. MLB says list that was leaked by MiLB is now inaccurate...

Hopefully they all come off that list. 

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2 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:
42 minutes ago, Red-Knight said:

Looks like some teams have been successful in arguing their way off of the contraction list. MLB says list that was leaked by MiLB is now inaccurate...

Hopefully they all come off that list. 

 

I am certainly not hoping for that!  A contraction of the affilliated minors means a boon for the independent minors. I think we can expect that independent leagues will put teams in cities that lose their affilliated teams. 

The players are going to be paid peanuts in either case; so on that score it's a wash.  But to have players playing for teams that are actually trying to win is a better deal for the fans in those cities.

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17 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

I am certainly not hoping for that!  A contraction of the affilliated minors means a boon for the independent minors. I think we can expect that independent leagues will put teams in cities that lose their affilliated teams. 

The players are going to be paid peanuts in either case; so on that score it's a wash.  But to have players playing for teams that are actually trying to win is a better deal for the fans in those cities.


True. But far fewer potential owners are willing to operate independent clubs simply for the added cost of having to subsidize player salaries.  Which means there's still a bigger danger in fewer jobs for players if contraction happens.

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1 hour ago, Red-Knight said:

https://ballparkdigest.com/2020/01/08/contraction-in-flux-as-lowell-spinners-may-escape-dream-league/

 

Looks like some teams have been successful in arguing their way off of the contraction list. MLB says list that was leaked by MiLB is now inaccurate...

 

You could just as well justify the PawSox moving to Lowell as you could Worcester.

 

Lowell is a growing city of over 100K, and the Spinners have been playing there since 1996. The Spinners draw about 3K a game which is right in line with the NY Penn League average.

 

Contracting a team like this makes no sense, and whoever thought this was a good idea is a :censored: ing moron.

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53 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

I am certainly not hoping for that!  A contraction of the affilliated minors means a boon for the independent minors. I think we can expect that independent leagues will put teams in cities that lose their affilliated teams. 

The players are going to be paid peanuts in either case; so on that score it's a wash.  But to have players playing for teams that are actually trying to win is a better deal for the fans in those cities.

 

What part of "the Rookie League markets aren't viable absent MLB affiliations" don't you grok?

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3 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

I am certainly not hoping for that!  A contraction of the affilliated minors means a boon for the independent minors. I think we can expect that independent leagues will put teams in cities that lose their affilliated teams. 

The players are going to be paid peanuts in either case; so on that score it's a wash.  But to have players playing for teams that are actually trying to win is a better deal for the fans in those cities.

 

"Cheap labor, shmeap labor, gimme a pennant!" What a profoundly awful sentiment. The pay in some of these indie leagues is in the $25-30 per game range. To say you want more of that because fighting for better wages is a losing battle and minor league wins take priority over earning a living wage is appalling. Examine your priorities.

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2 hours ago, rams80 said:

What part of "the Rookie League markets aren't viable absent MLB affiliations" don't you grok?

 

An independent league team can operate with lower overhead, so could conceivably make a go of it in a city where affiliated ball could not.

 

Still, even if a given city cannot support even an independent league team, the glut of players means that independent leagues are bound to find owners who want to start new teams somewhere. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Sodboy13 said:

"Cheap labor, shmeap labor, gimme a pennant!" What a profoundly awful sentiment. The pay in some of these indie leagues is in the $25-30 per game range. To say you want more of that because fighting for better wages is a losing battle and minor league wins take priority over earning a living wage is appalling. Examine your priorities.

 

The people who need to examine their priorities are the major league players, who have refused to include minor-leaguers in their bargaining unit. I have all the respect in the world for the MLBPA; but that union's abandonment of a class of vulnerable fellow professionals is indefensible. And without pressure put on the owners by the powerful union, there is no hope of getting good pay for minor league players.

 

If it makes you feel good to denounce me, then go right ahead.  But if you think that being against the contraction of the minor leagues is somehow a pro-worker stance, you're way off. Neither an affiliated team nor an independent team pays players a living wage, just as leagues playing arena football and indoor soccer don't. These are all exploitive relationships in which workers get screwed.

 

We all know this; and to some extent we are all complicit by patronising these leagues and these teams, or even by discussing their uniforms and logos.

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7 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

An independent league team can operate with lower overhead, so could conceivably make a go of it in a city where affiliated ball could not.

 

Not sure how this is possible given that the major league teams partially subsidize the minors.

 

7 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

Still, even if a given city cannot support even an independent league team, the glut of players means that independent leagues are bound to find owners who want to start new teams somewhere.

 

Yeah, that's not how any of that works.

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3 hours ago, rams80 said:
Quote

Still, even if a given city cannot support even an independent league team, the glut of players means that independent leagues are bound to find owners who want to start new teams somewhere.

 

Yeah, that's not how any of that works.

 

That's exactly how it works. Independent league teams have replaced recently departed affiliated teams in Springfield, Illinois and Canton, Ohio; and they have appeared in cities that were long ago abandoned by the affiliated minors, such as Newark and Winnipeg. There are now going to be a lot of those cities.

 

And there are always plenty of people who want to start teams in existing independent leagues, or even to establish new independent leagues. This will be an unprecedented opportunity for that, given the sudden emergence of cities that have just lost their teams, combined with the availability of hundreds of qualified players.

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That’s news to those Indy Leagues that have needed to resort to fielding a traveling road only  team to ensure there was an even number of teams.  And many of those teams have a precarious existence.  Springfield’s Indy league team died in 2001; they have an (unpaid) college wood bat team now.

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3 minutes ago, rams80 said:

Springfield’s Indy league team died in 2001; they have an (unpaid) college wood bat team now.

 

Canton's and Newark's teams folded, too. But that says nothing about what will happen going forward, after the contraction of the affiliated minors creates a new landscape and opens up new opportunities.

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We have a few Indie league baseball teams in the area, and I do not know how they would be affected if at all.  Or even how the Frisco Roughriders will be affected either.

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24 minutes ago, GDAWG said:

We have a few Indie league baseball teams in the area, and I do not know how they would be affected if at all.  

 

They will be affected by receiving plenty of calls from players looking for jobs.

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22 hours ago, Red-Knight said:

https://ballparkdigest.com/2020/01/08/contraction-in-flux-as-lowell-spinners-may-escape-dream-league/

 

Looks like some teams have been successful in arguing their way off of the contraction list. MLB says list that was leaked by MiLB is now inaccurate...

Of note in this article is that the Lowell Spinners owner is Dave Heller.

 

His Quad Cities River Bandits were also reported to be off the list... by U.S. Senator Chuck Grassley, of all people: https://qctimes.com/sports/baseball/grassley-bandits-are-not-a-contraction-candidate/article_21b1066c-5ae0-5cff-82ab-a519ac30e72f.html

 

So it may be the case of a politically connected owner getting his teams safe and not an indicator of anything bigger.

 

Still, Iowa losing Clinton, QC and Burlington and only keeping Cedar Rapids and Des Moines in the original report seemed like an easy line in the sand to ... move.

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3 minutes ago, CubsFanBudMan said:

Of note in this article is that the Lowell Spinners owner is Dave Heller.

 

His Quad Cities River Bandits were also reported to be off the list... by U.S. Senator Chuck Grassley, of all people: https://qctimes.com/sports/baseball/grassley-bandits-are-not-a-contraction-candidate/article_21b1066c-5ae0-5cff-82ab-a519ac30e72f.html

 

So it may be the case of a politically connected owner getting his teams safe and not an indicator of anything bigger.

 

Still, Iowa losing Clinton, QC and Burlington and only keeping Cedar Rapids and Des Moines in the original report seemed like an easy line in the sand to ... move.

 

To play Devil's Advocate, an owner rich enough to get someone in DC to fight for him is rich enough to not have problems fielding a minor league team.

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Is this about financial problems fielding a minor league team? I don't think it is. Quad Cities is in a position of strength compared to Beloit or Burlington or even Clinton.

 

Heller has four teams. He's also been the owner I've seen quoted the most in these articles, whether it's been in reference to Quad Cities, Billings or Lowell.

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Quad Cities were on the list because Houston wrote the list, they're an Astros affiliate, and the Astros braintrust chose to be annoyed at how the River Bandits couldn't access their stadium due to flooding this past season.

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1 hour ago, rams80 said:

Quad Cities were on the list because Houston wrote the list, they're an Astros affiliate, and the Astros braintrust chose to be annoyed at how the River Bandits couldn't access their stadium due to flooding this past season.

 

Houston wrote the list?  Why is that not surprising?

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