CS85 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said: Maybe you just want NFL football to be your safe space? Bingo. GET OUTTA MAH FOOTBAW was a huge thing on twitter yesterday. Lots of militant jingoists furious that these uppity spooks and SJWs adulterate their ALL-AMERICAN HULKAMANIA FOOTBAWLE BEER AND GOD AND GUNS Sundays with some wimpy limp-wristed sob story. RESPECT THE TROOPZ RESPECT POLICE SOLDIERS FAWT FOR YOU AND NEED I DARE MENTION PAT TILLMAN?!?!?!?!?!?!?? Quote "You are nothing more than a small cancer on this message board. You are not entertaining, you are a complete joke." twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmm Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I’ve been sitting thru God Bless America for years, protesting its inappropriateness at baseball games. I welcome football players joining me in a simple, peaceful form of protest, even if they’re getting a tad more attention for their cause than I am for mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSky Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 33 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said: Who's trying to impose anything on you? Players kneeling for the anthem is both sanctioned by their employers (team and league) and it's them expressing their opinion. They're not insisting you share it. They're merly taking advantage of their platform to make a statement. As is their right as both American citizens and as employees who have the consent of their employers. If you find it uncomfortable? Sorry. Protests are meant to be inconvenient in one way or another. "I don't mind them protesting, just not right here/now" is a dangerous step towards "free speech zones" employed by the People's Republic of China. Where people protesting the government can only do so out of the public eye. Except, and this is important, no one is imposing anything on you. At most they're making you aware of an issue. Not forcing you to adopt their position on it. If merely being reminded that people with different beliefs exist in this world is troubling? Well I do believe that's an attitude conservatives blast liberals for all the time. Maybe you just want NFL football to be your safe space? I encourage everyone to express themselves about whatever they wish, but in my opinion, that's not appropriate at work whether permitted or not. So let's just agree to disagree. BTW, you, and especially CS85, belittle yourself and hurt your credibility when you move beyond the issue at hand into baiting with implications and insults like the safe space thing and trying to paint anyone who doesn't share your view as 'MURICA! half-wits. Typical lib tactics and a big reason it's impossible to have a reasonable conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, BlueSky said: BTW, you, and especially CS85, belittle yourself and hurt your credibility when you move beyond the issue at hand into baiting with implications and insults like the safe space thing and trying to paint anyone who doesn't share your view as 'MURICA! half-wits. Typical lib tactics and a big reason it's impossible to have a reasonable conversation. Denying the right for protest to exist tends to elicit that response. /Plays "we are the Buddy Bears" song. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCap Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, BlueSky said: BTW, you, and especially CS85, belittle yourself and hurt your credibility when you move beyond the issue at hand into baiting with implications and insults... ... 49 minutes ago, BlueSky said: Ironic, because they're both liberals and that's a common complaint from that camp about conservatives. PotD 26/2/12 1/7/15 2020 BASS Spin the Wheel, Make the Deal Regular Season Champion 2021 BASS NFL Pick'em Regular Season Champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSky Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 42 minutes ago, rams80 said: Denying the right for protest to exist tends to elicit that response. /Plays "we are the Buddy Bears" song. Who's denying anyone's right? I enthusiastically encourage people to protest if they wish...just not at work. In fact, that should especially apply to those who have a larger platform than most simply because they're celebrities. The rest of us are disenfranchised in comparison, aren't we? All we have is message boards, FB, and walking around with signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Just now, BlueSky said: Who's denying anyone's right? I enthusiastically encourage people to protest if they wish...just not at work. In fact, that should especially apply to those who have a larger platform than most simply because they're celebrities. The rest of us are disenfranchised in comparison, aren't we? All we have is message boards, FB, and walking around with signs. Let me guess, you take a dim view of organized labor and collective bargaining. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcj882000 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 16 hours ago, B-Rich said: The playing of the national anthem before games has been a part of sporting events for well over 100 years, and as Dustdevil and Brass notes is more "national" in nature, which doesn't and shouldn't mean "political"... One could make the argument that patriotism, especially nationalism, is indeed a political position, but that's something I'd rather not get into. Admittedly my only source on this is a Keith Olbermann take from his old ESPN show, which is only viewable in Canada (or those of us with a proxy) for some reason, but if he's correct then this isn't the case. (Heck, the Star Spangled Banner has only been America's official national anthem for 86 years - it was made such in 1931!) To sum up for those who can't watch it, apparently: -The anthem used to be saved for special occasions only - opening day, championships, the 4th of July (I'd assume); -The Brooklyn Dodgers as late as 1950 used to advertise that they were the only team that played the anthem before every game; -Playing the anthem before every single game was a reaction to the Red Scare; the historically-minded among us would recall this was also the time the USA stuck "one nation under God" into the Pledge of Allegiance to spite the atheist communists. (I'd like to point out that the USSR, officially being atheist and anti-nationalist, likely didn't care about either of these actions.) It's similar to how God Bless America replaced Take Me Out To The Ballgame during the 7th inning stretch everywhere but Wrigley Field (and SkyDome?) as a reaction to 9/11. There's also the fact that one hockey team still famously replaces the pre-game anthem with another (admittedly also patriotic) song for special occasions, that being the Philadelphia Flyers and Kate Smith's rendition of... well, God Bless America. Or the fact that NFL players never regularly stood on the sidelines for the anthem until 2009. Or that the US flag code makes no mention of not standing for the anthem as being "disrespectful to the flag", yet there's a huge list of things y'all do with your flag that does violate said flag code. ...Anyways, Keith's bigger point was that, being 2 years before protesting became a thing, the only times people noticed and remembered a pre-game anthem (and God Bless America) at a game were during times of national grief or emergency, or when the singer botches it somehow. (eg: Carl Lewis, Clent Bowers, Roseanne.) Furthermore he cites this article in The American Conservative that lamented the anthem and the "flyovers, flag waving, and special commemorations at football game halftimes" being largely a marketing gimmick of false, phony, "feel-good" patriotism done by leagues that don't actually care about the soldiers they claim to honour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBolt3 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 3 hours ago, BlueSky said: Of course they have the right to protest - but on their own time. Ok. You do know that nobody would really notice or care, though. Athletes have such a large and commanding platform that they can use, to enact change for the better. Why not bring up issues that impact them personally when everyone is watching them? If this is making people uncomfortable and getting people to talk about it, is it not working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopard88 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 My question in these instances is always whether the "they should stick to sports/music/movies/etc." sentiment carries over to people they agree with. Do people who think George Clooney, Rosie O'Donnell and Ellen DeGeneres need to stick to movies, etc. say the same thing about Ted Nugent, Kid Rock and Scott Baio . . . and vice versa, of course? Most Liked Content of the Day -- February 15, 2017, August 21, 2017, August 22, 2017 ///// Proud Winner of the CCSLC Post of the Day Award -- April 8, 2008 Originator of the Upside Down Sarcasm Smilie -- November 1, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CS85 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, leopard88 said: My question in these instances is always whether the "they should stick to sports/music/movies/etc." sentiment carries over to people they agree with. Do people who think George Clooney, Rosie O'Donnell and Ellen DeGeneres need to stick to movies, etc. say the same thing about Ted Nugent, Kid Rock and Scott Baio . . . and vice versa, of course? Well of course not. Ted Nugent, Kid Rock, and Scott Baio are right. Clooney, fatso, and lesbo are wrong. If they don't like it, they can get out. Quote "You are nothing more than a small cancer on this message board. You are not entertaining, you are a complete joke." twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmm Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 15 minutes ago, BlueSky said: Who's denying anyone's right? I enthusiastically encourage people to protest if they wish...just not at work. In fact, that should especially apply to those who have a larger platform than most simply because they're celebrities. The rest of us are disenfranchised in comparison, aren't we? All we have is message boards, FB, and walking around with signs. Their employers have no problem with them protesting at work (and many joined in!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnWis97 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I think the "workplace" issue is worthy of discussion. There is the issue that the league and teams are allowing it. And they are doing so to their own peril...it's their business. There is one other angle that makes these players different though...I can't make too many political statements at work, particularly in settings that get out to people with whom I'm supposed to be building relationships. Makes sense. However, my workplace does not thrust a political act on me. They don't force me to make the choice between pretending I'm something I'm not or going out on a limb. If my employer started every day with a prayer, I'd be making a huge stink. I sure as hell would not participate. Why? Because I'm an agnostic and I don't pray. But they don't...so I'd be wrong to go around telling everyone about how I'm an agnostic and I don't believe most of what they believe. Similarly, if the leagues did not play a song that carried with it the expectation that everyone show how patriotic they are, there'd be no opening for these protests to take place and they would be protesting on their own time. But these players, who have legitimate reason to fear for their own lives every time a cop pulls them over (no amount of money makes up for that), are painted into a corner by their employers. And, as a result, the employers are also painted into a corner, where they have to decide who to alienate, who to invalidate, etc. And they seem to understand that, in the long run, shutting up their mostly black players to submit to a fan base of white people that like their black athletes to be quiet, is a bad look. I bet everyone one of those owners would love it if the anthem was not part of sports. Or at least if the pre-2009 practice was still in place. Unfortunately the league was not thinking any moves ahead when they decided to bring the players out so they could help tell the complex story of how America is #1. (I suspect, but if anyone has a better understanding of why the players moved from the locker room to the field in 2009, I'd love to hear it). We have a long history of athletes making a difference. Tommie Smith and John Carlos,* Ali, Kareem, Jackie Robinson (and Branch Ricky and early players that embraced Robinson), etc. I hope something can come from this; particularly an earnest examination of Kaepernick's original purpose: that any killing of a black man by a cop is an automatic acquittal (if it even gets to trial). Righting that wrong is far more important than standing for an anthem or, frankly, whether these protesters even like America. I can live in a world where someone has different feelings than I do (funny, I thought liberals were intolerant of that) much more than I can live in a world where certain people are targeted by the police and nobody with clout cares. Sadly, most are flip-flopping those priorities. The lesser known story about Carlos and Smith is that the third person, the Australian silver medalist had his life ruined exponentially worse than Carlos and Smith. People, and not just Americans, suck: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Norman. Disclaimer: If this comment is about an NBA uniform from 2017-2018 or later, do not constitute a lack of acknowledgement of the corporate logo to mean anything other than "the corporate logo is terrible and makes the uniform significantly worse." BADGERS TWINS VIKINGS TIMBERWOLVES WILD POTD (Shared) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschoolvikings Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 34 minutes ago, leopard88 said: My question in these instances is always whether the "they should stick to sports/music/movies/etc." sentiment carries over to people they agree with. Do people who think George Clooney, Rosie O'Donnell and Ellen DeGeneres need to stick to movies, etc. say the same thing about Ted Nugent, Kid Rock and Scott Baio . . . and vice versa, of course? Wait... Scott Baio makes movies? http://dstewartpaint.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 34 minutes ago, leopard88 said: My question in these instances is always whether the "they should stick to sports/music/movies/etc." sentiment carries over to people they agree with. Do people who think George Clooney, Rosie O'Donnell and Ellen DeGeneres need to stick to movies, etc. say the same thing about Ted Nugent, Kid Rock and Scott Baio . . . and vice versa, of course? They can speak sure. Slightly more concerned about Kid Rock thinking he'd be an excellent Senator for Michigan, but sure, they can speak. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopard88 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 24 minutes ago, oldschoolvikings said: Wait... Scott Baio makes movies? We have to go back to 2008, assuming TV movies count. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1112784/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_6 Most Liked Content of the Day -- February 15, 2017, August 21, 2017, August 22, 2017 ///// Proud Winner of the CCSLC Post of the Day Award -- April 8, 2008 Originator of the Upside Down Sarcasm Smilie -- November 1, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HedleyLamarr Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 When's that Super Bowl Hangover supposed to kick in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopard88 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 One thing I will add about the reaction to the weekend's protests is how universal it appears to be. I was taken aback by how vehement the response was among people I know who are Ravens fans (i.e, "I'm done." "I'm never going to or watching another Ravens/NFL game." Burning gear). However, it looks like that response appears to have happened everywhere. http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/steelers-fans-burn-apparel-after-decision-to-skip-national-anthem/ar-AAssirQ?li=BBnbfcL Most Liked Content of the Day -- February 15, 2017, August 21, 2017, August 22, 2017 ///// Proud Winner of the CCSLC Post of the Day Award -- April 8, 2008 Originator of the Upside Down Sarcasm Smilie -- November 1, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, leopard88 said: http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/steelers-fans-burn-apparel-after-decision-to-skip-national-anthem/ar-AAssirQ?li=BBnbfcL "Now I can devote my life to more important matters, such as cheering for Penn State." On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSky Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 2 hours ago, rams80 said: Let me guess, you take a dim view of organized labor and collective bargaining. That's much too complex an answer for here, but I take a dim view of short-sightedness and tunnel vision on either side. For example, management that knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing, and labor that insists on "full pay to the last day" - which in the instance I witnessed, was exactly what they got. There's a saying that companies get the unions they deserve, and I think there's a lot of truth to that and examples illustrating both possible outcomes. 2 hours ago, leopard88 said: My question in these instances is always whether the "they should stick to sports/music/movies/etc." sentiment carries over to people they agree with. Do people who think George Clooney, Rosie O'Donnell and Ellen DeGeneres need to stick to movies, etc. say the same thing about Ted Nugent, Kid Rock and Scott Baio . . . and vice versa, of course? I dislike expressions of politics and ideology by public figures, full stop. Doesn't matter whether or not I happen to agree. I do happen to agree with some of the issues the NFL players are protesting, but not the manner in which they're doing so. And don't get me started on liberal hypocrisy. The internet isn't big enough to list all the examples. 25 minutes ago, HedleyLamarr said: When's that Super Bowl Hangover supposed to kick in? Are you watching the games? The Falcons are two plays away from being 1-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.