dfwabel

Football and CTE

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13 minutes ago, Gold Pinstripes said:

There is a grand canyon's worth of difference between doing basketball drills to exhaustion in an air-conditioned facility, and a football practice in pads with contact in 95 degree weather.

Nearly every NBA player would quit early.

 

Post Korey Stringer, the NFL's conditioning regime has gone away from that for obvious reasons.  One wonders if major college football will follow after Maryland (because full contact in 95 degree weather does what again for player performance relative to full contact in better conditions?).

 

Anyway, LeBron's built like a slightly underweight tight end, and has a conditioning regimen that allows him to be one of the league leaders in playing time despite being age 33 and having played the functional equivalent of 10 seasons in the last 8.  He's played at least 100 games at the highest level of the sport each of the last 8 seasons, in a sport that has more intense physical exertion over an extended duration,  I'm pretty sure most NFL players would have a massive coronary episode if they ever attempted to go through what LeBron does to train.

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14 hours ago, dfwabel said:

Bolded #1:While that is true, the military doesn't ask their parents to sign a NLI for their 16 or 17 year old child over to them.

 

Bolded #2: Coaches priority at all levels is to win and especially if it's their career, they will place their own interest over that of the player. 

Bolded #3: We got it, repeatedly.

 

Your football entertainment and blood lust > Any collateral damage caused by the sport.

 

You are emotionally tone deaf to those who play sport and what pleases you is forever the priority. CTE attained by the players, physical harm inflicted to/by them or others due to the damage football (or sport) isn't your problem.

 

Are your heroes Woody Hayes, Frank Kush, Bob Knight and Mike Leach? Is your favorite team ever that '54 Texas A&M team, The Junction Boys?

 

EDIT (And rejudge your Likes accordingly):

Do I hate football? No.

Am I addicted to it? Yes, as Mike Gundy would say... "I'm a man, I'm 40!"

 

 

The sport is not the panacea to the ills of the current US culture as you write here. It's very toxic at every level.

"Friday Night Tykes" shows how abusive youth football is nationally.

 

"Friday Night Lights" illustrated the toxicity which HS football caused in 1980's Odessa, TX.

 

No need to give examples of the toxicity at the levels above the prep level.

I've never said football is the panacea to all the ills of the culture, but it is generally a positive activity, which benefits those involved in the long run. Your examples of CFB head coaches and high school programs out of control simply cannot compete with the legions of head coaches and H.S. programs which have produced so many successful people later on. Countless coaches in all levels of football have proven you can be a winner, and do so with class, but it's not the type of story which tends to be widely reported. It's the same thing as someone bringing up incompetent doctors, and forgetting most aren't that way. Your continuing overreach about CTE without more facts neglects the glaring reality of former players doing well after the sport on an intellectual level.

 

I'm not a cruel person, but Ryan Shazier(and others) aren't teenagers, and just happened to be injured doing what they loved. It's the inherent risk of NFL football, just like high speed crashes and severe injuries are a natural output of racing. So people like me are just going to buckle down, point out what the media is forgetting, and continue to enjoy a sport which has been an overall plus to our society. Player safety can definitely be handled, we have the smart people to make it happen. Technology will eventually allow us to see exactly where current players stand on brain health, what the baseline is, and when it's time to walk away from the game. And that's fine, the sport is growing rapidly across the globe, and some of those players will not only be attending college here, but playing in the NFL as well.      

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51 minutes ago, Gold Pinstripes said:

Bo Jackson loved football, I'm sure he would tell us, baseball was easier to prepare for.

 

Sure. But that’s not the same thing as being unable to do it. ? 

 

Nobody's denying the physical challenges that football entails. We are all-too-aware of them, which is why we want a complete and unobstructed investigation into the sport and the toll it takes.  

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17 minutes ago, rams80 said:

 

Post Korey Stringer, the NFL's conditioning regime has gone away from that for obvious reasons.  One wonders if major college football will follow after Maryland (because full contact in 95 degree weather does what again for player performance relative to full contact in better conditions?).

 

Anyway, LeBron's built like a slightly underweight tight end, and has a conditioning regimen that allows him to be one of the league leaders in playing time despite being age 33 and having played the functional equivalent of 10 seasons in the last 8.  He's played at least 100 games at the highest level of the sport each of the last 8 seasons, in a sport that has more intense physical exertion over an extended duration,  I'm pretty sure most NFL players would have a massive coronary episode if they ever attempted to go through what LeBron does to train.

Yes, mistakes were made in the Stringer death, just like mistakes have been made in working conditions of other professions.

 

LeBron James is a fantastic athlete, but the physicality he'd be facing in a full contact scrimmage would rock his world big time. Comparing the pushing and shoving in the post to real hits in the ribs, knees, etc. just isn't a valid comparison. 

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2 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

Sure. But that’s not at all what you said. ? 

 

Nobody's denying the physical challenges that football entails. We are all-too-aware of that, which is why we want significant changes to improve players’ safety. 

Like I've said before, we can have the best of both worlds. Enhanced player safety, without eroding the foundation of the game. 

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On the flip side, 100+ games of that vs...maybe 20 of football's violence (I'll score preseason play as cumulatively 1 game for a Super Bowl team's starters), Also you get more and longer breaks in football.

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6 minutes ago, Gold Pinstripes said:

Like I've said before, we can have the best of both worlds. Enhanced player safety, without eroding the foundation of the game. 

 

I'm a goddamn Rams fan.  Since you only work on anecdotal evidence, here's mine.  If casual brutality in high temperatures and high humidity actually made people into better athletes and teammates, my team probably wouldn't have gone through a lost decade and a half.

 

The mindset that it does, is 7-9 bull :censored: .

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1 hour ago, rams80 said:

 

I'm a goddamn Rams fan.  Since you only work on anecdotal evidence, here's mine.  If casual brutality in high temperatures and high humidity actually made people into better athletes and teammates, my team probably wouldn't have gone through a lost decade and a half.

 

The mindset that it does, is 7-9 bull :censored: .

No, my evidence is as solid as a rock. People need to stop relying on the internet for 100% of their information.  And the nature of football requires training in tough conditions, with no assures of a winning record. You're confusing what I said before.

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Just now, Gold Pinstripes said:

No, my evidence is as solid as a rock. People need to stop relying on the internet for 100% of their information.  And the nature of football requires training in tough conditions, with no assures of a winning record. You're confusing what I said before.

 

Alright.  How many titles have you won.  How many kids have you steered away from adverse life conditions.  And on the debit, how many lives have been ruined?

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2 hours ago, rams80 said:

On the flip side, 100+ games of that vs...maybe 20 of football's violence (I'll score preseason play as cumulatively 1 game for a Super Bowl team's starters), Also you get more and longer breaks in football.

Asking an NBA star to adapt to football's physicality is no different than asking an NFL star to train with NHL players. The NFL star could hit, but the lack of elite skating ability would doom him.   

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2 hours ago, Gold Pinstripes said:

My worldview is quite informed, and some in your state are the ones getting left behind. And by the way, I support people of all colors, and believe in equal rights for all. If you're a young writer with a limited knowledge of a topic, it's only fair to do the research before making assertions.

 

Bolded One: Annecdotal evidence is all you’ve given us, save for one misinterpreted study.

 

Bolded Two: Please, do tell. Are they getting “left behind” because their socio-economic status doesn’t afford them privileges, or because their heads are being filled with “propaganda?”

 

Bolded Three: I doubt you would have made your “identity politics” comment if that was the case. Sure, some people may take it too far, but I don’t think they’re any kind of majority.

 

Bolded Four: Again with your “young writer” boogeyman. You can’t keep coming back to that and expect it to work here.

 

Bolded Five: By “do the research,” you mean ignore the scientific studies and the understanding of football’s toxic culture to get some anecdotal evidence of players/former players from a specific set of communities?

 

Like others have said, you argue on shaky ground with annecdotal evidence. You believe that it’s your god-given duty to defend the sport from the “kill football” movement that you act like we’re all from. 

 

You’ve dug yourself a nice deep trench. Let’s see if you can climb out of it in the other posters’ eyes.

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3 minutes ago, rams80 said:

 

Alright.  How many titles have you won.  How many kids have you steered away from adverse life conditions.  And on the debit, how many lives have been ruined?

I'm not a former player, or coach, and have no relatives playing the sport. So my objectivity is beyond question. My "titles" are the numerous accomplishments I've achieved as a successful person. I have mentored interns who went on to succeed, the way I was by others. Unpaid internships often tell you who really has the commitment to make it, as opposed to others.

 

My evidence is simply based on the four decades plus of seeing football at all levels across the country. I've witnessed first hand what others don't see reported online. I find it impossible to believe there's been some kind of coordinated effort to deceive me all these years. Candidly, I'd put the variety of my experiences, and insider access, up against anyone in the nation.

 

Obviously, there have been unfortunate serious injuries in football, just like other sports. Check out the deaths in auto racing, but nobody is suggesting killing that sport. Football remains on the plus side of the ledger, a big problem has been the poor job all levels have done in explaining the positive aspects of the sport, and those chickens are coming home to roost.       

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41 minutes ago, Gold Pinstripes said:

I'm not a former player, or coach, and have no relatives playing the sport. So my objectivity is beyond question. My "titles" are the numerous accomplishments I've achieved as a successful person. I have mentored interns who went on to succeed, the way I was by others. Unpaid internships often tell you who really has the commitment to make it, as opposed to others. 

 

So you see willingness to take unpaid internships as a sign of character rather than a symptom of modern society's catastrophic economic ills.  It's possible to mentor without reaping the benefits of others' uncompensated labor.

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1 hour ago, rams80 said:

 

So you see willingness to take unpaid internships as a sign of character rather than a symptom of modern society's catastrophic economic ills.  It's possible to mentor without reaping the benefits of others' uncompensated labor.

Yeah, that part struck me, too. An unpaid internship means the person has the means to survive while they're not getting paid for their work. Not everyone has the money and/or support network.

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2 minutes ago, Cosmic said:

Yeah, that part struck me, too. An unpaid internship means the person has the means to survive while they're not getting paid for their work. Not everyone has the money and/or support network. 

 

Maybe you two just don't understand a very specific definition of "passion." I know I sure don't.

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4 hours ago, rams80 said:

 

So you see willingness to take unpaid internships as a sign of character rather than a symptom of modern society's catastrophic economic ills.  It's possible to mentor without reaping the benefits of others' uncompensated labor.

Of course, and I've identified talent early on in young employees making the minimum wage, seeing the similar level of passion successful people have. My guidance played a role in their confidence and later success. I can always tell who is going to make it, and who is going to fall by the wayside in my business. Don't need any studies for that.

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2 hours ago, DG_Now said:

 

Maybe you two just don't understand a very specific definition of "passion." I know I sure don't.

 

2 hours ago, Cosmic said:

Yeah, that part struck me, too. An unpaid internship means the person has the means to survive while they're not getting paid for their work. Not everyone has the money and/or support network.

Well, I was poor, and still found a way to make the unpaid internship work. Life isn't fair people.

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Just now, Gold Pinstripes said:

 

Well, I was poor, and still found a way to make the unpaid internship work. Life isn't fair people.

You could have been much poorer, apparently.

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5 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

Bolded One: Annecdotal evidence is all you’ve given us, save for one misinterpreted study.

 

Bolded Two: Please, do tell. Are they getting “left behind” because their socio-economic status doesn’t afford them privileges, or because their heads are being filled with “propaganda?”

 

Bolded Three: I doubt you would have made your “identity politics” comment if that was the case. Sure, some people may take it too far, but I don’t think they’re any kind of majority.

 

Bolded Four: Again with your “young writer” boogeyman. You can’t keep coming back to that and expect it to work here.

 

Bolded Five: By “do the research,” you mean ignore the scientific studies and the understanding of football’s toxic culture to get some anecdotal evidence of players/former players from a specific set of communities?

 

Like others have said, you argue on shaky ground with annecdotal evidence. You believe that it’s your god-given duty to defend the sport from the “kill football” movement that you act like we’re all from. 

 

You’ve dug yourself a nice deep trench. Let’s see if you can climb out of it in the other posters’ eyes.

Don't know if there are any studies about the legions of successful people who played football and used those life lessens in the process. I didn't need to document anything since I don't live in an echo chamber, relying on CTE research which has a long way to go. The 900 pound gorilla in the room is the significant numbers of those former players excelling, and they aren't that difficult to find. All I'm asking any writer to do is stop making assumptions without the facts, but the media has been doing that for a long time, in both the sports, and non-sports areas. 

 

Football's "toxic culture" is a pure myth. For every bad player and coach, plenty more are doing the right things, or staying out of trouble. The inspirational stories just aren't being reported.

 

Candidly, I seriously doubt you or anyone on this board can even approach the quality and quantity of my experiences in this matter. I've had the kind of insider access most can only wish for, which is why I find the generalizations so amusing in this matter. If anything, reading most of these responses just confirms the influence of the unbalanced reporting, and horrible job all levels of football has done in explaining the positive attributes of the sport. And I also believe some people with negative attitudes about the sport either played another sport, and were jealous about the funding and attention for the other, or former player bitter about how their career turned out.

 

Getting back to the player safety conundrum, problems are made to be solved, not lamented over with some kind of defeatist attitude. We'll be able to make the game safer without losing the essence of the sport, and it's a plus for society in the end. 

 

Won't be back until tomorrow, good luck digging out of the trench! 

 

 

 

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You can't really have an honest discussion with someone whose argument boils down to life experience and confirmation bias, so I'm out.

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