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NBA 2017-18: A Tale of Two Conferences

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On 3/24/2018 at 9:19 PM, BringBackTheVet said:

 

They literally changed the rules of the game because of Wilt - it's fair to argue he's #1.  

 

Thank you. This has been my argument as well. Jordan definitely had more marketability (due to several things such as the era he played in, that he was so clutch in big moments, and having the behemoth that is Nike backing him), but my goodness, just look at the stats he put up! They’re really comparable to basically nobody in sports other than maybe Wayne Gretzky in hockey. He’s SO far ahead of everyone else in terms of the numbers that he put up. It’s weird to me that it’s not just a given that he was the best ever. 

 

Speaking of that, does anyone have any real grasp on this conversation in the pre-Jordan era? Who was that “GOAT” go-to? Did Jordan and Nike basically invent this debate? 

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The knock against Wilt is that didn't win a lot. But the Celtics of that era were basically the current Warriors + Dame Lillard just for fun, so you can't hold too much of that against him. Also people like guards more than centers. Pre-Jordan, I would imagine people would have said either Wilt or Russell as GOAT; maybe Jerry West or Kareem if you were being contrary. Magic and Bird were too contemporary to Jordan and eclipsed by him.

 

You know what's cool? The Pacers and Thunder had that big trade this summer and both teams won. I'm sure I could find listicles of other blockbuster trades that worked out well for both teams, but that Oladiopo/George sticks out as one that worked out surprisingly well.

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17 hours ago, jmac11281 said:

Everyone just writes guys like Wilt and Bill Russell off just because of how long ago they played. It's unfair.

I've addressed why:

On 3/2/2017 at 9:09 PM, the admiral said:

We make fun of the NHL a lot here but the NBA before David Stern was basically an overgrown rec league where Red Auerbach bamboozled drooling alcoholic GMs into trading all-star players for "Your Mom."

 

42 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

Thank you. This has been my argument as well. Jordan definitely had more marketability (due to several things such as the era he played in, that he was so clutch in big moments, and having the behemoth that is Nike backing him), but my goodness, just look at the stats he put up! They’re really comparable to basically nobody in sports other than maybe Wayne Gretzky in hockey. He’s SO far ahead of everyone else in terms of the numbers that he put up. It’s weird to me that it’s not just a given that he was the best ever. 

Yeah, it is weird! But then there's still not even a consensus on Gretzky! BAWBBY FACKIN AWWWWWWWW

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In all fairness, a lot of the Bobby Orr talk is a combination of standard hockey fan contrarian-ism as well as that Orr played for a team from Boston and that's gonna go a long way in any conversation about GOAT's. He's very clearly the greatest to ever play his position and an undisputed top-5 in the history of the sport but if Boston hockey fans want to use the "what about the injuries" argument, well, then why don't we give the same standard to Lemieux while we're at it? I brought it up several years ago, and frankly I'll stand by it, that Lemieux was the most naturally talented player in the NHL's history, but a combination of poor health luck, the fact that he didn't condition himself particularly well, even by the standards of his day, and that his last decade or so of playing were spent in the Dead Puck Era, are the biggest reasons why Gretzky boat-races him in the history books. Some of that is Mario's fault, some of it isn't.

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There's no need to be a Wilt truther. Most NBA fans have Russell, Wilt and Kareem solidly in the top ten of greatest NBA players. That seems pretty good to me.

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5 hours ago, DG_Now said:

You know what's cool? The Pacers and Thunder had that big trade this summer and both teams won. I'm sure I could find listicles of other blockbuster trades that worked out well for both teams, but that Oladiopo/George sticks out as one that worked out surprisingly well.


Butler for LaVine, Markkanen and Dunn was a win-win trade too already at the time, even though many people saw the haul Bulls got as laughable.

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The most important Wilt stat is 20,000. Ain’t nobody else even close. 

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22 hours ago, DG_Now said:

Sorry, but anyone who says LeBron "can't hold Jordan's jock strap" is an automatic ignore. That's an absurd opinion in light of all evidence.

 

And if you're counting rings, James had no chance in 07, blew 11, watched his teammates quit in 14, watched his teammates go down one by one in 15, and was just outgunned in 17. Jordan never played with a team as overmatched as James has been in some of his Finals losses. 

 

Jordan without Pippen and Rodman would have lost to the 96 Sonics the same way James lost to the 15 Warriors.

 

You can spin it and justify it and move the goalposts as many times as you want, but LeBron has 3 rings to Jordan's 6, has never once led a team to a threepeat, and has never put up a season that matches what Jordan did in his prime, and has never been as a good a defender as prime Jordan. How many championships would Jordan have if he didn't take two years off to play minor league baseball? Or if Scottie Pippen wasn't dealing with migraines in Game 7 in 1990? Conjecture goes both ways.

 

It's actually kind of funny that the guy has bailed on two franchises to find a better, younger stable of teammates to put himself over the top and still can't escape petty teammates quitting on him and can only get a whiff of what Jordan accomplished. Poor LeBron.

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Markell Fultz, after being exposed for holding himself out all this time, is playing tonight, returning from what can only be described as a case of mental overwhelment.  From what I'm hearing, I give him 10 minutes before he pulls himself out.

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17 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Markell Fultz, after being exposed for holding himself out all this time, is playing tonight, returning from what can only be described as a case of mental overwhelment.  From what I'm hearing, I give him 10 minutes before he pulls himself out.

Kid clearly doesn’t Trust The Process. 

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1 hour ago, who do you think said:

 

You can spin it and justify it and move the goalposts as many times as you want, but LeBron has 3 rings to Jordan's 6, has never once led a team to a threepeat, and has never put up a season that matches what Jordan did in his prime, and has never been as a good a defender as prime Jordan. How many championships would Jordan have if he didn't take two years off to play minor league baseball? Or if Scottie Pippen wasn't dealing with migraines in Game 7 in 1990? Conjecture goes both ways.

 

It's actually kind of funny that the guy has bailed on two franchises to find a better, younger stable of teammates to put himself over the top and still can't escape petty teammates quitting on him and can only get a whiff of what Jordan accomplished. Poor LeBron.

 

This is objectively bad posting. LeBron is good and among the greatest ever. Reasonable people agree with this.

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1 hour ago, DG_Now said:

 

This is objectively bad posting. LeBron is good and among the greatest ever. Reasonable people agree with this.

 

When did I say that he wasn't? What are you talking about?

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3 hours ago, ozzyman314 said:

Kid clearly doesn’t Trust The Process. 

 

... and turns out he played historically well:

 

 

Read a stat that the Sixers have won more games in March this year than they won all of 15-16.

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The Grizzlies just got their first road win of the calendar year in Minnesota.

 

What a pitiful franchise.  the Wolves will extend their streak of missing the playoffs to 14 years after losing to a team that is trying to lose. 

 

Next year, the league should schedule all the worst teams to play Minnesota in March.  The Timberwolves are the solution to the league's tanking problem.

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19 minutes ago, OnWis97 said:

The Grizzlies just got their first road win of the calendar year in Minnesota.

 

What a pitiful franchise.  the Wolves will extend their streak of missing the playoffs to 14 years after losing to a team that is trying to lose. 

 

Next year, the league should schedule all the worst teams to play Minnesota in March.  The Timberwolves are the solution to the league's tanking problem.

 

They should hire Sam Hinkie. It’s the only way. 

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2 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

... and turns out he played historically well:

 

 

Read a stat that the Sixers have won more games in March this year than they won all of 15-16.

 

He definitely looked confident out there. I don't know that I'd rush him into the playoffs or anything, but I'm glad to see a guy who previously looked completely lost showing definite signs of competence. Not many people overcome the yips; I'm rooting for him.

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7 hours ago, DG_Now said:

 

He definitely looked confident out there. I don't know that I'd rush him into the playoffs or anything, but I'm glad to see a guy who previously looked completely lost showing definite signs of competence. Not many people overcome the yips; I'm rooting for him.

 

Never really looked at him before but saw some highlights and was amazed at how young he looked, even for 19. No wonder he had the “yips” - not everyone is ready for pro... anything at 19. It also must suck to not be able to (legally) hang out with your teammates for 2 more years, and to have to avoid the champagne if/when they celebrate. I’m not for over regulating, but some of these guys are simply not ready physicall or emotionally, but the teams have no choice but to draft them because someone else will 

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Process deniers and Hinke haters can kiss my ass and eat my poo.  

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I've been high on Casey as coach of the year, but with the Celtics going 5-0 on a four-game west trip plus OKC at home, with the ongoing rotating parade of injuries, I'm changing my vote to Stevens.

 

Rookie of the Year should be fun. Is it weird that I think Ben Simmons has earned that award, but I'd rather have Donovan Mitchell or Jayson Tatum on my team going forward?

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1 hour ago, Digby said:

I've been high on Casey as coach of the year, but with the Celtics going 5-0 on a four-game west trip plus OKC at home, with the ongoing rotating parade of injuries, I'm changing my vote to Stevens.

 

Rookie of the Year should be fun. Is it weird that I think Ben Simmons has earned that award, but I'd rather have Donovan Mitchell or Jayson Tatum on my team going forward?

 

I've only watched a few games, but Simmons really doesn't "feel" like a rookie.  If you didn't remind me, I'd never think that he even qualified for the award.

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