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Portland and other MLB expansion name possibilities

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18 hours ago, selgy said:


1.  Montreal Continues to grow in population. They great Montreal area is now at 4.2 million, whereas when the Expos left they were at 3.6 million. By that time their economy was and team was left for scraps and you are going to fault their fans? To say that the heights were the 60-70s when their population has erupted since then just doesnt make sense. 

2. The Rays did not give away tickets to the World Series in 2008. You are just making stuff us. Nice try. 

3. You say that moving the stadium off of a peninsula won't make a difference. Way to bring the analytics. Facts are the Rays have the lowest amount of fans within a 30 minute drive radius. That is a very import figure. You can ignore that, but I am seeing a trend with your post and your posting style. 

4. Your lack of knowledge of the area is showing (you admit it later with googling). I mention that having a more centrally located stadium will help with attendance and with pulling in fans. I never once mentions Orlando. But you immediately went there cause you read what you wanted to. Right now due to where the stadium is located it is on the furthest west part of the Tampa Bay area. Making the Northern and eastern parts of the bay very difficult for them to get to the game regularly. Those areas are ALSO two of the fastest growing parts of THE COUNTRY. Not just COUNTY, or FLORIDA, BUT THE COUNTY. These regions are where not only families are moving. But very high family incomes will be. But they are currently 2 hour driving distance from Tropicana Field due to it's location. If the Stadium was centrally located in the bay area (Tampa and not St. Pee) the ride would be 45 minutes to 1 hour). Calculate this over a round trip and this adds up over a year with getting people out to the game. 

4+. As for Orlando. Since you mentioned it I will bring it up. We have decent fanbase growing over there. A ride through Tampa to St. Pete adds and extra 45 minutes to that trip. Bringing the stadium to Tampa will only help with that fanbase and the GROWING i4 corridor growth (the busiest in the nation). Virgin Rail will be building a line from Orlando to Tampa which will assist with bringing fans to games if/when the stadium is built. 

5. Have you been to the Marlins Stadium? I have and it is in a terrible location. It isnt in Downtown like you say. It is in a residential neighborhood. Don't lie to make your point. Public transportation/rail is 0.5 miles a way. There is nothing to do around the stadium. There is a Wendy's across the street! I am trying to figure out your point with bringing up the Marlins Stadium? Is it cause one ownership did something extremely stupid, that the Rays should move? I am not sure how those go hand in hand. 

6. Tampa should have been given a MLB stadium. MLB was afraid of lawsuits from St. Pete due to the St. Pete Giants debacle that they gave in. If you don't know this, then you aren't prepared for this topic and need to step away from this topic. 

7. Then you wont support Charlotte or Vegas as expansion cities cause both of those cities are loaded with transients who will keep their allegiances to their "home" cities. The Tampa area has a leg up on those cities cause we are on to the second generation of those fans where they are raising their children and starting to let their children chose what team they want to root for. 

8. Again you lie cause the Marins stadium is not Downtown and is in a residential neighborhood. You clearly have never been there. 

 

9. I have stated I think Charlotte is one of the three viable expansion cities. But for every reason you have said that the Rays don't deserve a team...I hope you realize that Tampa is stronger in every category except corporate support (which is big). So don't go insulting the person ahead of you.    

1. Again, Montréal has weakened itself with Bill 101 among other things. I've listed these things before. I understand cities grow, as they tend to do.

 

2. Alright, I was wrong. I had heard that they had given away tickets, but clearly that's not true. I apologize.

 

3. That was in response to the claim that Tampa would be a "top 10" metro in 10-15 years. It won't.

 

4.

On 10/13/2019 at 9:54 PM, selgy said:

If/When the Rays move to Tampa and market better to central Florida (which is extremely difficult when they are in St. Pete due to the extra hour drive), they will expose themselves to another 3-5 million fans in the Orlando market. 

Obviously, a more central location would help a ton. However, my doubts lie in that I personally don't think the Tampa market will support the team even with a better stadium. They haven't exactly been rocking the place when the team isn't great.

 

5. No, Marlins Park isn't downtown. However, it is much closer than Dolphins Stadium, and it's only about 1 mile outside of the true "downtown" of Miami. Honestly, it's somewhat comparable to Nationals Park, which is similarly placed away from downtown DC. My point in bringing up the Marlins is that a better stadium won't always help.

 

6. So you admit that granting the Devil Rays expansion team was a mistake? The market didn't have a great MLB-ready stadium in a good location, and the team is suffering for it.

 

7. I won't support a Vegas team because of that and Vegas' other problems. However, the Charlotte area is loaded with plenty of homegrown fans who support local teams, plus the original generation of transplants is having children, just like you say they are in Tampa.

 

8. See 5.

 

9. No it isn't. There are two things Tampa currently has over Charlotte: a MLB-sized stadium (even if it sucks) and a MLB team. 

 

Look. I think that finding a viable long-term solution in Tampa Bay should be the first choice, I just don't think that will ever happen. The city of Tampa (where the Rays need to build their stadium if they want to stay) doesn't seem (to an admitted outsider, I have no idea what the local politics is like) to want to build one. I think the best-case scenario here is for the Rays to cut their loses and start looking somewhere new, even if I think that the MLB shouldn't be shuffling teams around.

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4 hours ago, QueenCitySwarm said:

1. Again, Montréal has weakened itself with Bill 101 among other things. I've listed these things before. I understand cities grow, as they tend to do.

 

2. Alright, I was wrong. I had heard that they had given away tickets, but clearly that's not true. I apologize.

 

3. That was in response to the claim that Tampa would be a "top 10" metro in 10-15 years. It won't.

 

4.

Obviously, a more central location would help a ton. However, my doubts lie in that I personally don't think the Tampa market will support the team even with a better stadium. They haven't exactly been rocking the place when the team isn't great.

 

5. No, Marlins Park isn't downtown. However, it is much closer than Dolphins Stadium, and it's only about 1 mile outside of the true "downtown" of Miami. Honestly, it's somewhat comparable to Nationals Park, which is similarly placed away from downtown DC. My point in bringing up the Marlins is that a better stadium won't always help.

 

6. So you admit that granting the Devil Rays expansion team was a mistake? The market didn't have a great MLB-ready stadium in a good location, and the team is suffering for it.

 

7. I won't support a Vegas team because of that and Vegas' other problems. However, the Charlotte area is loaded with plenty of homegrown fans who support local teams, plus the original generation of transplants is having children, just like you say they are in Tampa.

 

8. See 5.

 

9. No it isn't. There are two things Tampa currently has over Charlotte: a MLB-sized stadium (even if it sucks) and a MLB team. 

 

Look. I think that finding a viable long-term solution in Tampa Bay should be the first choice, I just don't think that will ever happen. The city of Tampa (where the Rays need to build their stadium if they want to stay) doesn't seem (to an admitted outsider, I have no idea what the local politics is like) to want to build one. I think the best-case scenario here is for the Rays to cut their loses and start looking somewhere new, even if I think that the MLB shouldn't be shuffling teams around.


I don't think you realize how geographically bad the Trops location is and or what a peninsula is? Google maps isn't doing you any good and you clearly haven't been here. So maybe some data will help you. 

This is from 2014, but the numbers shouldn't be too different. 

2014-weekday-weekend-attendance-e1422605

Do you see the Rays last on the list of teams with fans within a 30 minute drive radius? That 0.67 represent 670,000 fans within that 30 minute radius. that is dead last. Next would be Pittsburgh who has 1.18 million fans (almost double) within a 30 minute radius. Want to guess where Pittsburghs stadium is built? yes in Downtown and not on a peninsula next to 10 miles of water. 

3dflws.jpg 

Proper placement of the stadium will double the fans within that radius. Future growth of Tampa and the areas to the east, north and south of Tampa will raise the 30 minute radius number. 

You can't say the area hasn't been rocking the stadium when we are dead last in fans within the stadium location. You can't acknowledge the problem and discredit it in the same sentence. 

5. So you say that the Marlins stadium was downtown. I call you out on it and now you admit that you were wrong, and you still double down on it by saying "better stadium won't always help". No. You brought up the Marlins. I never brought them up. The marlins stadium location was terrible from day one. Terrible location. Terrible atmosphere, no surrounding businesses to feed off of. The train system is 0.5 miles away. So you are playing hypothetical situations that the rays situation will be bad cause the Marlins situation is bad. Again you brought it up to taint this conversation. 

6. I don't admit that the Devil rays were a mistake. i admit that it should have been done differently. I see a trend with you. 

9. So you admit to know nothing about the area, or the situations. But you think the Rays should cut ties. You clearly are a subject matter expert. 

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6 hours ago, Walk-Off said:

That is precisely why I hope that a Nashville-based MLB team resists the temptation to have a minor-league affiliate in the Memphis area, why I am glad that the Predators do not have any of their farm teams in or near Memphis, and why I think that the Memphis Grizzlies have been wise to keep their G-League team well away from Nashville.

 

The rivalry with Memphis has cooled off to some degree. I think a MLB Nashville AAA team in Memphis could work today but 15 years ago it'd be dicey. What other market would you want to place the Nashville AAA team? The AA team would have a lot of great local choices in Knoxville, Chattanooga, Jackson or Huntsville. Ideally I think they'd pick Knoxville over the rest but all of those are good options. 

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On 10/11/2019 at 3:01 PM, QueenCitySwarm said:

Has Nashville led all of MiLB in total attendance as well as yearly since 2014? Nashville is a good choice, but it's basically a second option if Charlotte can't put together something. Both cities are stuck with a new Minor League stadium that's non-expandable but Charlotte has the history and traditional support to make it the correct choice. A team in Charlotte draws from Concord, Kannapolis, Hickory, Rock Hill, Spartanburg, Greensboro, Winston-Salem, Raleigh, Durham, Columbia, Augusta, GA, Asheville, and all places between (and that's just using the 192-mile radius from Nashville to Birmingham). Not to mention, Louisville is, I'd assume, Reds territory, and Birmingham Braves territory, so a Nashville team would probably be limited to Tennessee, like the Titans, while a Charlotte would be able to draw from at least the north of South Carolina. 

 

Honestly, the order I'd put MLB expansion/relocation (ignoring current stadium situations, this is all hypothetical) would be Charlotte, Portland, Nashville, Vancouver, San Antonio, Montreal, Las Vegas. My preference would be for the Rays to commit to moving full-time to Montreal, and Charlotte and Portland joining in a hypothetical NL South (with the Braves, Nats, and Marlins) and AL West (with the Mariners, A's, and Angels), along with other realignment.

 

No offense but you're naming local places in Concord, Kannapolis and Rock Hill that are part of greater Charlotte. It's not necessary as it'd be like including Franklin, Murfreesboro and Gallatin for Nashville. That should be simply implied. You are correct though that a Charlotte team also has strong regional potential throughout the Carolinas and it's certainly an underserved market for professional baseball.

 

As for the bold, both cities are on a straight line to Nashville through I -65.  Growing up in Nashville, games in Atlanta and Cincy were equidistant and manageable trips, and St. Louis wasn't much further. Even though I wasn't a fan of any of the three teams I went to all three places numerous times growing up. With a 162 game season,there is plenty of time for baseball fans in Birmingham and Louisville to check out a Nashville team even it's not their favorite team. While I agree that transferring loyalty in either city wouldn't happen overnight or possibly never happen en masse, a properly marketed winning Nashville team on the local TV nightly could develop a lot of fans in those markets. I would say Nashville is a more desirable place than either Cincy or Atlanta for a trip.  There is more fun nightlife and things to do in Nashville than Cincy, and even though traffic is increasingly bad in Nashville, it's nothing like the logistical nightmare that is Atlanta. 

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7 hours ago, Rebuy said:

 

The rivalry with Memphis has cooled off to some degree. I think a MLB Nashville AAA team in Memphis could work today but 15 years ago it'd be dicey.

Maybe the rivalry has cooled down.  I can see it heating back up, though, if business and/or political leaders in the Memphis area start to crave an NFL team again, develop a yearning for an NHL or (more likely) MLS team, or want to try to secure an MLB team for the Bluff City before Nashville can get one.  Alternately, of course, Nashville interests could re-intensify the rivalry by seeking an NBA team for the Music City or battling Memphis over whatever proves to be "the next big thing" (Lacrosse?  Rugby?  Team handball?) in North American professional team sports.

 

Quote

What other market would you want to place the Nashville AAA team? The AA team would have a lot of great local choices in Knoxville, Chattanooga, Jackson or Huntsville. Ideally I think they'd pick Knoxville over the rest but all of those are good options.

I am glad that you asked.  Here is my ideal farm system for a Nashville MLB franchise:

 

  • Class AAA
    • First Choice: A Pacific Coast League version of the Birmingham Barons (resulting from a relocation of the Nashville Sounds)
    • Second Choice: An International League version of the Tennessee Smokies of the Knoxville area (who would become the Knoxville Smokies if and when they leave Sevier County for Knoxville proper)
  • Class AA
    • First Choice: The Southern League's Chattanooga Lookouts
    • Second Choice: The Tennessee (or Knoxville) Smokies in their current state as a Southern League club (should the Knoxville area not earn a Class AAA franchise)
    • Third Choice: The Huntsville area's new Rocket City Trash Pandas (also in the Southern League)
    • Fourth Choice: One more Southern League possibility, the Jackson Generals of Jackson, Tennessee (which, while closer to Memphis than to Nashville, might have a population more willing than the average Memphian to have an affinity for anything Nashville)
  • Class A (High)
    • First Choice: A Carolina League version of the Asheville Tourists
    • Second Choice: Any available club in the Carolina League (with a preference for a team in any of the most westerly locales in that league's footprint if all else is equal)
  • Class A (Low)
    • First Choice: The Bowling Green Hot Rods as a South Atlantic League team again (The current Midwest League version of the Hot Rods could move away from Bowling Green, and then the present SAL form of the Asheville Tourists could make way for a Carolina League franchise in Asheville by heading to Bowling Green.)
    • Second Choice: The Hot Rods in their current state as a Midwest League club
    • Third Choice: The South Atlantic League's Lexington Legends
    • Fourth Choice: The Asheville Tourists in their current state as a South Atlantic League club
  • Class A (Short Season)
    • A new franchise in the New York-Penn League that would play home games in Beckley, West Virginia (which would be the southernmost team in what is already the southernmost state in the NYPL's footprint)
  • Rookie (Advanced)
    • An Appalachian League team in Upper East Tennessee (preferably in Johnson City, Kingsport, or the Tennessee part of Bristol)
  • Rookie
    • Since my ideal spring training facility for a Nashville MLB club would be somewhere in Florida, the team would naturally have two non-advanced Rookie affiliates in the Gulf Coast League.  In addition, the Nashville MLB club's farm system would include two teams in another non-advanced Rookie league, the Dominican Summer League.  (Yes, some MLB teams have two GCL affiliates and/or two DSL affiliates apiece.)

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On 10/14/2019 at 6:47 PM, dont care said:

Just one thing, Orlando is not 1.5 hours from Tampa, maybe if you are the only car on the road but it can easily be a 3 hr ordeal. I went to one rays game and it took 4. I’m never going again after that.

Orlando to Tampa "should" take about an hour and a half, but us locals know thats only possible in the middle of the night when driving on I-4.

 

I live about 10 miles east of Tampa, and to get to Disney World (about 50-55 miles away, and about 15 miles or so south of downtown Orlando) takes me an hour and 15 minutes on a good day.

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18 hours ago, selgy said:


I don't think you realize how geographically bad the Trops location is and or what a peninsula is? Google maps isn't doing you any good and you clearly haven't been here. So maybe some data will help you. 

This is from 2014, but the numbers shouldn't be too different. 

2014-weekday-weekend-attendance-e1422605

Do you see the Rays last on the list of teams with fans within a 30 minute drive radius? That 0.67 represent 670,000 fans within that 30 minute radius. that is dead last. Next would be Pittsburgh who has 1.18 million fans (almost double) within a 30 minute radius. Want to guess where Pittsburghs stadium is built? yes in Downtown and not on a peninsula next to 10 miles of water. 

3dflws.jpg 

Proper placement of the stadium will double the fans within that radius. Future growth of Tampa and the areas to the east, north and south of Tampa will raise the 30 minute radius number. 

You can't say the area hasn't been rocking the stadium when we are dead last in fans within the stadium location. You can't acknowledge the problem and discredit it in the same sentence. 

5. So you say that the Marlins stadium was downtown. I call you out on it and now you admit that you were wrong, and you still double down on it by saying "better stadium won't always help". No. You brought up the Marlins. I never brought them up. The marlins stadium location was terrible from day one. Terrible location. Terrible atmosphere, no surrounding businesses to feed off of. The train system is 0.5 miles away. So you are playing hypothetical situations that the rays situation will be bad cause the Marlins situation is bad. Again you brought it up to taint this conversation. 

6. I don't admit that the Devil rays were a mistake. i admit that it should have been done differently. I see a trend with you. 

9. So you admit to know nothing about the area, or the situations. But you think the Rays should cut ties. You clearly are a subject matter expert. 

I understand that the Trop is in a bad location. Yes, I am an outsider to the Tampa area. No, I do not have intimate knowledge of the area, its residents, or local politics. Yes, I understand that a stadium in Tampa will help a lot.

In regards to the Marlins, I brought them up to mention that a better stadium in a better location (even if that new location isn't great) won't help if fans don't go to games. In that very same chart you added to show how little fans are in the Trop's surrounding area, Miami has 1.59 million people within 30 minutes, kind of proving my point that the Marlins are in a better scenario and yet have little to show for it. Now, will the same thing happen to the Rays? Maybe, probably not if the team is good when they move in to a prospective stadium.

And "mistake" was definitely the wrong word there, Tampa isn't the worst market for a team, but the implementation was terrible and has kind of haunted the team and the league since they joined. However, if the Rays were to get a solid proposal for a stadium with public support, I want them to stay. The Al Lang Stadium proposal that failed years ago wouldn't help the fact that the Rays are, as you have clearly stated, far away from where most of the market is, while the Ybor City stadium plan looks really promising, but the Rays' lease with the Trop hurts them a ton. I'd like to stress that I think a team in Tampa is a good thing, but if the Rays can't get their act together, then relocation is the only option for the team. (In fact, I'd like to get your perspective on the Ybor City plan, to see if that would be satisfactory.)

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Agin you brought up Miami and Miami has nothing to do with this. 

Miami's stadium issues are a combination of ownership issues where they are putting a AAAA quality product on the field, combined with an okay location. When the product gets better, turnout will get better. But again you interjected them into the topic when their scenario is nothing like the Rays. But i humored you for a for a few posts. 

So you admit that you are an outsider, don't know the area, the market, the geography, or our past. But you sure act as if you are an expert to determine why the Rays should leave the area. You made up lies saying that the Rays gave away tickets to the 2008 World Series. You lied and said the Marlins stadium was in downtown. 

Anything else? 

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I hate to interrupt a ... to put it kindly ... spirited debate over whether or not a major-league-level ballpark on the Tampa side of the bay can and will save the Rays, but I am curious as to how many of the people (myself included) who want an MLB team (or a major-league professional team in any particular sport, for that matter) to exist in a particular area have a preference as to how that area earns the team.  For instance, as much as I want Nashville to have its own MLB team, I would rather see such a club be the product of an expansion, of a relocation of a franchise (e.g. the Athletics or the Angels) from a market that would still have an MLB team, or of even a move of a franchise (e.g. the Orioles) out of a market that would then no longer have an MLB club, but would still be very close to a certain community or municipality in another market that still possesses an MLB team, than of a relocation of a franchise (e.g. the Rays, the Diamondbacks, or the Blue Jays) from a market that would then be without an MLB team and be far away from any remaining area with an MLB club.  In other words, I think that my support for a Nashville-based MLB team would come with a clearer conscience if the Oakland Athletics became the Nashville Athletics* -- knowing that the San Francisco Bay Area would still have the Giants -- than if the Tampa Bay Rays turned into the Nashville Whatevers.  It would be essentially the difference between the Philadelphia Athletics moving to Kansas City and the Kansas City Athletics moving to Oakland, or how the Boston Braves' move to Milwaukee contrasted with the Milwaukee Braves' move to Atlanta.

 

* In my opinion, the Athletics nickname is historic enough, innocuous enough, and geographically generic enough to deserve to be kept should Oakland's MLB team move to Nashville or almost any other mostly-English-speaking part of North America.

 

I now return us to our regularly scheduled arguing.

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9 minutes ago, Walk-Off said:

I hate to interrupt a ... to put it kindly ... spirited debate over whether or not a major-league-level ballpark on the Tampa side of the bay can and will save the Rays, but I am curious as to how many of the people (myself included) who want an MLB team (or a major-league professional team in any particular sport, for that matter) to exist in a particular area have a preference as to how that area earns the team.  For instance, as much as I want Nashville to its own MLB team, I would rather see such a club be the product of an expansion, of a relocation of a franchise (e.g. the Athletics or the Angels) from a market that would still have an MLB team, or of even a move of a franchise (e.g. the Orioles) out of a market that would then no longer have an MLB club, but would still be very close to a certain community or municipality in another market that still possesses an MLB team, than of a relocation of a franchise (e.g. the Rays, the Diamondbacks, or the Blue Jays) from a market that would then be without an MLB team and be far away from any remaining area with an MLB club.  In other words, I think that my support for a Nashville-based MLB team would come with a clearer conscience if the Oakland Athletics became the Nashville Athletics* -- knowing that the San Francisco Bay Area would still have the Giants -- than if the Tampa Bay Rays turned into the Nashville Whatevers.  It would be essentially the difference between the Philadelphia Athletics moving to Kansas City and the Kansas City Athletics moving to Oakland, or how the Boston Braves' move to Milwaukee contrasted with the Milwaukee Braves' move to Atlanta.

 

* In my opinion, the Athletics nickname is historic enough, innocuous enough, and geographically generic enough to deserve to be kept should Oakland's MLB team move to Nashville or almost any other mostly-English-speaking part of North America.

 

I now return us to our regularly scheduled arguing.


To me expansion would be the preferred method. 

I feel that re-branding in a new city complicates things with previous history. Whereas a new team (expansion) lets the new team grow with the city. 

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On 10/11/2019 at 5:15 PM, Rebuy said:

I'm biased because I'm a native Nashvillian but I think it's by far the best option for relocation/expansion.  It's a growing prosperous city.

 

Except that “growing cities” haven’t historically been good baseball cities.  Too many people coming from all over, with their own loyalties intact.  Nashville could well end up like Tampa Bay, where the Rays are the third most-popular team among baseball fans in their own city.

 

On 10/11/2019 at 5:15 PM, Rebuy said:

I've never really understood the Portland hype. I don't get a baseball vibe out of Portland at all, maybe Portlandia fooled me.

 

Yeah, maybe an absurdist comedy show isn’t necessarily the best way to judge a city.  Go watch Stumptown and see what you think about Portland. 😛

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My two cents on expansion teams:

Winnipeg Warhawks

Montreal Expos

Mexico City Desperadoes

Vegas Sting

 

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On 10/17/2019 at 2:05 AM, Walk-Off said:

I hate to interrupt a ... to put it kindly ... spirited debate over whether or not a major-league-level ballpark on the Tampa side of the bay can and will save the Rays, but I am curious as to how many of the people (myself included) who want an MLB team (or a major-league professional team in any particular sport, for that matter) to exist in a particular area have a preference as to how that area earns the team.  For instance, as much as I want Nashville to have its own MLB team, I would rather see such a club be the product of an expansion, of a relocation of a franchise (e.g. the Athletics or the Angels) from a market that would still have an MLB team, or of even a move of a franchise (e.g. the Orioles) out of a market that would then no longer have an MLB club, but would still be very close to a certain community or municipality in another market that still possesses an MLB team, than of a relocation of a franchise (e.g. the Rays, the Diamondbacks, or the Blue Jays) from a market that would then be without an MLB team and be far away from any remaining area with an MLB club.  In other words, I think that my support for a Nashville-based MLB team would come with a clearer conscience if the Oakland Athletics became the Nashville Athletics* -- knowing that the San Francisco Bay Area would still have the Giants -- than if the Tampa Bay Rays turned into the Nashville Whatevers.  It would be essentially the difference between the Philadelphia Athletics moving to Kansas City and the Kansas City Athletics moving to Oakland, or how the Boston Braves' move to Milwaukee contrasted with the Milwaukee Braves' move to Atlanta.

 

* In my opinion, the Athletics nickname is historic enough, innocuous enough, and geographically generic enough to deserve to be kept should Oakland's MLB team move to Nashville or almost any other mostly-English-speaking part of North America.

 

I now return us to our regularly scheduled arguing.

 

 

As a Nats fan I would've much rather received an expansion team than hearing Expos fans whine every day. Not complaining though. Ironically, MLB picked Tampa Bay in the last round of expansion over our nation's capital just to appease to Peter Angelos and his team in Baltimore. Now the Rays are looking to move to Montreal, and rumors of the O's moving to Nashville are circulating. Go figure.

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4 hours ago, daveindc said:

As a Nats fan I would've much rather received an expansion team than hearing Expos fans whine every day.
 

 

But is their whining all that noticeable?

 

4 hours ago, daveindc said:

 

Not complaining though. Ironically, MLB picked Tampa Bay in the last round of expansion over our nation's capital just to appease to Peter Angelos and his team in Baltimore.
 

 

I think Naimoli’s $3.5 billion lawsuit and the constant blue-balling of the Tampa Bay Area (especially after the Giants nearly moved there) had a lot more to do with it than Angelos. Also, Arizona could get a modern stadium built while the DC groups were struggling to come up with a stadium plan (e.g., a couple of Northern Virginia and Dulles-adjacent designs - ever heard of the Virginia Fury?).

 

A DC expansion group had a far better chance in 1993, but their group imploded as Huizenga’s South Florida group blossomed. 

 

4 hours ago, daveindc said:

Now the Rays are looking to move to Montreal, and rumors of the O's moving to Nashville are circulating. Go figure.


Like we’ve said before, the Rays scenario is far more likely than the O’s. 

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move the Rays to Montreal, move the A's to Vegas, add expansion teams in Portland and Charlotte. there. im a big brain genius.

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54 minutes ago, Jimmy Lethal said:

Contract the Rays and Marlins, move the A's to Howard Terminal, add no expansion teams. there. im a big brain genius.

 

Fixed.

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17 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

But is their whining all that noticeable?

 

 

I think Naimoli’s $3.5 billion lawsuit and the constant blue-balling of the Tampa Bay Area (especially after the Giants nearly moved there) had a lot more to do with it than Angelos. Also, Arizona could get a modern stadium built while the DC groups were struggling to come up with a stadium plan (e.g., a couple of Northern Virginia and Dulles-adjacent designs - ever heard of the Virginia Fury?).

 

A DC expansion group had a far better chance in 1993, but their group imploded as Huizenga’s South Florida group blossomed. 

 


Like we’ve said before, the Rays scenario is far more likely than the O’s. 

 

 

It's very noticeable, especially to us. There's people on social media who are seriously suggesting the Nats wear Expos throwbacks during the WS. Huh? It's especially irritating considering the Nats are obviously sticking with the navy jerseys the rest of the way. It just shows that they're not as much fans of the franchise as the Washington Nationals, but just want their Montreal Expos back. Of course I feel their pain, but at the same time a lot of their rhetoric is just disrespectful to DC and baseball fans here. Relocation is never pretty.

 

As far as Angelos, he would've sued as well. When there was brief discussion of adding a third expansion team for DC in that last round, he made his opposition known. He was the only owner who voted against the Expos move, and he and the Nats have been in court for years just over TV network revenue (MASN). It JUST got settled a couple month ago after years of appeals, and ruled in the Nats favor.

 

"The owners already had settled on Phoenix and Tampa, but Collins says some were intrigued with the idea of locating a team in Washington. When one of the owners introduced a motion to add a third team and open up Washington as the potential site, another owner "went nuts," according to Collins. It was Peter Angelos, the new owner of the Baltimore Orioles."

 

https://www.washingtonian.com/2005/04/01/how-dc-got-baseball-back/

 

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, daveindc said:

It's very noticeable, especially to us. There's people on social media who are seriously suggesting the Nats wear Expos throwbacks during the WS. Huh? It's especially irritating considering the Nats are obviously sticking with the navy jerseys the rest of the way. It just shows that they're not as much fans of the franchise as the Washington Nationals, but just want their Montreal Expos back. Of course I feel their pain, but at the same time a lot of their rhetoric is just disrespectful to DC and baseball fans here. Relocation is never pretty.

 

It seems more like a vocal minority - don’t let them get into your head. 

 

11 minutes ago, daveindc said:

As far as Angelos, he would've sued as well. When there was brief discussion of adding a third expansion team for DC in that last round, he made his opposition known. He was the only owner who voted against the Expos move, and he and the Nats have been in court for years just over TV network revenue (MASN). It JUST got settled a couple month ago after years of appeals, and ruled in the Nats favor.

 

"The owners already had settled on Phoenix and Tampa, but Collins says some were intrigued with the idea of locating a team in Washington. When one of the owners introduced a motion to add a third team and open up Washington as the potential site, another owner "went nuts," according to Collins. It was Peter Angelos, the new owner of the Baltimore Orioles."

 

https://www.washingtonian.com/2005/04/01/how-dc-got-baseball-back/


I read that article for research, and while I’m sure a three team plan would have tempted MLB, expanding to an uneven number of teams would have likely been an issue. Angelos was a primary offender for keeping MLB out of DC (which is how Norfolk got in on the Expos hunt - since he approved of it). Still, other troubles complicated the issue of getting a team in DC. Like many things in life, you can’t just blame one person for the difficulties.

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What about Vancouver? It's has been mention many times, can it support a MLB franchise? I've heard the MiLB Canadians team has a good turnout; but again, no.stadium. Or is it too close to.Seattle or within the Mariners market?

Omit last post, couldn't get rid of quote..

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